E-Cig VAPING - Trojan horse to cancer, addiction, COPD & more - more dangerous than AR-15's!

Oh, about a week and a half ago I quit my 26-year habit of chewing tobacco. Funny, I haven't missed it at all. Mouth is feeling better, and I'm feeling better over all. Sunflower-seeds or gum work for the oral fixation.

I'm vaping now, using a system that was handy and cheap to pick up at the moment, but I'll be moving to a brand made in the USA only soon.

Both systems get high reviews, but the one I got is made in China, so.

The company out of Florida looks like it has some good choices, and isn't badly priced.

Using 6mg juice, 3mg wasn't enough. /twitch-twitch

originally posted by: Cygnis
Oh, about a week and a half ago I quit my 26-year habit of chewing tobacco. Funny, I haven't missed it at all. Mouth is feeling better, and I'm feeling better over all. Sunflower-seeds or gum work for the oral fixation.

I'm vaping now, using a system that was handy and cheap to pick up at the moment, but I'll be moving to a brand made in the USA only soon.

Both systems get high reviews, but the one I got is made in China, so.

The company out of Florida looks like it has some good choices, and isn't badly priced.

Using 6mg juice, 3mg wasn't enough. /twitch-twitch

Chew is a diff animal.

oral cancer is a real problem.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Clean in the oral cancer dept, so signs. Figured I'd quit while I'm ahead and adopt healthier habits.

I did smoke for a long time, too but quit that 13 years ago.

Using the vape to help with the nicotine withdrawal, and going from there.

a reply to: Cygnis

Good for you!

I have worked in the industry and vaped for the last 6 years. I can tell you that this is complete and utter CRAP.

Your friend needs to do some research and NOT buy e-liquids of such poor quality. Avoid anything made in China. With his symptoms, I can tell you right now that whatever he is vaping has entirely TOO much propylene glycol and most likely WAY too much nicotine for anyone. Vaping isn't meant to be uncomfortable.

As far as the 100mg concentrates you are talking about.. Well, something like that is intended to be used in EXTREMELY small amounts..lime 10 drops at a time. That's usually for mass production. The highest level nicotine anyone should be using is a 16-18mg or 1.6 - 2.4%, IF THAT. A person should use levels that high only starting out if you smoked between 1 and 3 packs a day. Anything above that is frowned upon these days. In fact, most legitimate e-liquid producers began phasing those out a couple years ago. And since the FDA has focused so much attention on vape products, we will probably see more cutbacks on these things in the future.

As far as temperatures are concerned, you were speaking about combustion. That's the thing about e-cigs is, they don't combust like a cigarette . That's the entire point. When used properly, they produce vapor without the formaldehyde and other chemicals you read about on the web in "vape horror porn". If your average Joe used their rig at the temperatures you are writing about, you wouldn't be able to inhale or exhale a single bit of anything. You would fry your coil and have a feeling in your lungs equivalent to drowning in fire and burning cotton.

As far as respiratory issues like COPD and emphysema are concerned, I had customers with COPD come in and begin vaping. In a couple months time (after visiting their doctors), they came back in better shape than they were in before; and with clean bills of health later on. Their doctors would say, "I don't know what you're doing, but keep it up." Why, you ask? Because their symptoms were GONE after they switched over. I even had lung cancer patients come in to the store I worked at...because their doctors (Wake Forest doctors at that!) referred them to us.

When I began vaping, yes I coughed up phlegm and all kinds of things you don't want to imagine, if we're being candid. My lungs were literally purging themselves of all the brown tar goo that I had been inhaling for the past decade. I no longer have that problem. I no longer wheeze. I am no longer winded after I walk up a hill. I feel BETTER. My blood pressure even improved.

I am, by no means, saying there will be no issues with this substitute in the future. The bottom line is that inhaling anything besides O2 isn't in anyone's favor. There are too many things to factor in.... what chemicals are in the flavorings for instance, what kind of wire is being used in your coil, etc, etc. Any vaper will tell you that it hasn't been out long enough for us to know all there is to know.

Thats why so many juice companies have been weeded out over the last couple of years. The FDA is requiring that certain standards are being met. And yes, much of those fall into favor of big tobacco while they try to play catch up to the OG's of the business because their tobacco sales have dropped so much. And by the way, I don't believe that the FDA is some angel of an establishment. They let Monsanto continue on their dirty filthy path for God's sakes. BUT. The FDA has also been witnessing a revolution taking place. They're losing money on big tobacco and big pharma due to fewer people getting sick because people made the switch to ecigs. So of course vaping will continue on. Now RJ Reynolds and all those other good ol' boys have their hands in the money pot!!!

What I DO know for sure, is that I don't have weird sharp pains in my chest anymore. I don't cough up brown junk every single morning when I get up anymore. I don't stink anymore. I can breathe easily. This sub may have saved my life. I don't know. I watched my grandfather die of lung cancer, and I certainly do not want to go down that road of pain and misery. I will stay on my 6 year path to complete cessation thanks to vaping.

I believe that is the ultimate goal for most of us who chose this as a way to finally let the death sticks go. Considering I smoked a pack a day for 10 years and I am now down to .3% nicotine several times a day, I'm going to stick with what I know has worked for me and the people I have grown to care about.

P.s. watch the documentary A Billion Lives

a reply to: Cygnis

Finding a decent usa made rig is a challenge unless you go mech.

Lost vapes is a UK company and they make some super nice DNA boxes for a reasonable price. If you find a decent us made box let me know

a reply to: rickymouse

Salt is an antifreeze too. PG is FDA approved for food consumption.

Im sensitive to it. I vape 80% VG juice so i doesnt make me cough. Not everyone is.

OP is such a goddamn gullible tool. I hacked up phlegm when I tried to quit smokes cold turkey, it's what the human body does to clean it's damaged lungs out, you nitwitted dolt.

I had no adverse reactions weaning myself off nicotine for several years with vaping. Now I'm both free of tobacco and nicotine all together. I'm even far enough removed from smoking that it's starting to no longer smell appealing even as just a simple scent. It used to, this is significant in terms of progress in kicking tobacco permanently. And I owe it to vaping.

originally posted by: Cygnis

Both systems get high reviews, but the one I got is made in China, so.

The company out of Florida looks like it has some good choices, and isn't badly priced.

Using 6mg juice, 3mg wasn't enough. /twitch-twitch

Good on ya

If you aren't chugging on it all the time 6mg sounds about right. 3mg if you are chucking massive clouds all day and night.

What American brand? Even the USA designed ones are mostly manufactured in China.

The handful of American made devices I've seen are mechanical (direct connection to the battery) which is asking for trouble in my opinion (I've owned a number). Where the reputable Chinese devices have multiple safety and other features making it near impossible to cook your battery, or testicles

At the end of the day the devices themselves are just battery boxes and the main Chinese manufactures have their QC process down. They copy everything else, but to be fair vape mod tech they've managed to come out above most everyone else all on their own. Their biggest problem is their own countrymen badly faking their own real ones.

Juice and coils on the other hand - Get it all local. Its not just the quality of the goods, but pre-mixed juice doesn't travel so well and I don't trust the Chinese steel grades either.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
I don't know where to start, with the dangerous products of vaping or with anecdotal stories - The scientific info of the carrier liquids are at the bottom and the compounds they form when combusted in the vap chamber.

I can garuntee that the health problems and deaths that this product will lead to over the years (if not currently happening) will be many orders of magnitude greater than the problems (deaths) by the infamous AR-15, which has MANY GOOD uses while vaping, it can be argued, has very few positives.

I had a friend who smoked about a pack a week and decided to try e-cigs. It was nice b/c he didn't have to go outside and he would continue his work while he used it. Over about 2 weeks he found himself going from using one e-cig a day (they don't last ANYWHERE near the number of "puffs" they advertise - maybe 10% of advertized) to using 4 a day. He never had any problems of waking up in the middle of the night with a chest of phlem, but now it happened 3-6 times a night and he had to empty it into a soda bottle next to his bed (TOTALLY GROSS!) and daily ritual of emptying it. Then in the morning he sounded like he had bronchitis and was hacking up phlem for 30-120 minutes (less time if he took a really hot shower which loosened up his chest). This finally stated being a 24 hour thing, he had constant phlem which he had NEVER had before with cigarettes and he said he started having trouble catching his breath (at 26 years old and in AWESOME health). He quit the e-cigs and within 2-3 days the phlem had decreased by about 70-80% and then after a week almost completely. He had major withdrawl from the lack of nicotine so he smoked more cigarettes, probably 3 packs a week immediately after stopping vaping. He tapered back to his pack a week over 3-4 weeks and never had the chest congestion again.

Looking back at how his health changed, he had almost NO energy physically, when using the e-cigs, but he did a lot of computer work, did a lot of writing (he is an aspiring author). It also made him crave caffiene drinks which probably also helped with the mental acuity. Now he may smoke a pack every 10-14 days or even over a month at times and thinks anyone switching to e-cigs to quit cigarettes is in for major health problems and will spend A LOT of money (he spent as much in one day as he would in 30-45 days buying tobacco!). Now they have the re-fills which are less expensive.

Nicotine is a VERY toxic poison and can kill a person . For some reason the LD50/50 has been removed from Wiki over the last 4 years as I used this as a souirce on a number of occasions and it is no longer listed. VERY SHADY! Some sources state a LD50/50 at 30mg for an average adult and an almost 100% faral dose of 60mg+ for average adult (of 155lbs). For a mouse, it says that .334mg per Kg of body weight which correlates to 23.38mg for a 70KG/155lb mouse - which is a good indicator for humans and can be estimated at probably 2-3x more tolerance in humans which puts the number at 46mg to 70mg, so the numbers seem to all come out fairly similar from 4 different scientific sources.

Now the vaping companies sell nicotine concentrates of 100mg/ml where 1ml is enough to kill a person (with propylene glycol or Glycerine being the carrier solvent). Nicotine is also able to be absorbed through the skin and with the solvents they use, it actually makes the absorption easier and faster! You'll be happy to know that within the first 3 search results on Google, I was able to order a 55 gallon drum of 100mg/ml concentrate with my own custom flavor added to it and with a coupon code, I was able to get it shipped for FREE!

There are also the companies that have stepped out on a ledge and offer 990mg/ml, which is essentially 100% pure nicotine and a single drop of this on the skin is enough to kill a person in an agonizing death. I refuse to link to a site such as this that would sell such a product to the general public and not just businesses (which is bad enough).

I'm worried about kids having access to this poison which is more toxic than CYANIDE and totally unregulated except for a checkbox. A kid under 18 could get a greendot credit card and order this on Amazon, have it delivered to their drop boxes across the country and the parents would never know.

I don't like e-cigarettes at all. I've tried them they make me feel sick the way a large cigar or chewing tobacco did after just 1 Puff. I smoke a fair amount, i go through a 50g bag of tobacco in about 4 days. It didn't take the craving for an actual smoke away. The hit in the chest from them feels like the kick from the worst native smokes I've ever had. I call them the death smokes because every Puff feels like getting shot in the chest. The sweet candy flavours are sickening and even the 'cigarette' flavoured ones I've tried have a sweet candy flavour I cant stand. I think that's part of why they didn't help. Cigarettes have a smokey burny taste not a sweet one. I personally like the taste of the tobacco I smoke.

Also watching kids act like idiots with them gets annoying. The amount of times I've seen groups of highschool kids standing around acting shady with them passing them around like doobies now is ridiculous or those idiots that stand around douching out their lungs eith the biggest clouds of vapour they can. Those things are #ing stupid and honestly they're really just another way to ingest nicotine. Everyone I know that's used them to quit usually still has a pack of smokes on them for when their battery runs out or when they just want a smoke.

originally posted by: badw0lf
Can you cite any studies that show pure nicotine (not smoking tobacco) hardens arteries, causes heart disease and makes your peen floppy?

It is a vasoconstrictor, the same as caffeine. So anyone with a pre-existing heart issue may have problems. And lets not pretend people don't eat so much fatty foods that their arteries are at risk of one thing alone.

Thanks.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

its bad for you

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I'm not saying that Ecigs are safe by any means. I've tried them myself and it always felt like I was filling my lungs with water vapor... oh wait... That's right!

After using for a day or so, I didn't care much for the pain in my chest from the sense of inhaling fluid.

However... When you stop smoking, you will have the same symptoms that you described. I don't believe it was caused my vaping. You will cough up some NASTY stuff for weeks until your lungs go back to something similar to normal, as they begin their long 'winded' treatment.

I imaging the vape may have made it a bit worse but it didn't cause it.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Well that's weird, I don't feel that when vaping myself. I do rarely (not lately) have a problem that it doesn't work good (when the liquid doesn't vaporize good enough) then I get a sense of liquid instead of vapor.
So maybe your gear doesn't work good!

What I do notice that allot of smokers must cough allot when using an e-sig for the 1st time, they feel like it's even more heavy then smoking a sigar.
Yet when a non smoker tries it he or she doesn't cough at all.
The reason many smokers don't like it when using it and just go back to smoking.
Luckily I didn't had this problem really, only rarely the first time in the morning a little.

Anyways you must have good gear, some nice e-liquids you really like which you can vape all day..
Myself use mouth to lung tanks/coils and never touched a cigarette since 2 years now.
Feeling much better!

Nicotine btw isn't really addictive, I mean when I don't vape for a day I don't get a feeling that I must have my nicotine shot at all. Yet when I smoked sigs, just after a few hours without made me crave for a sig.
But without nicotine it's just like Cola light (a bit worse then that), just not a good sensation/taste.
So I could stop easy but it's like not drinking coffee anymore, or no sex or whatever you gonna miss when not doing you know.

Of course it's always better to stop with vaping, when I don't vape for a day I do notice I can smell even better.. (I do smell better then when I smoked though).
And when you vape allot you feel a bit colder due to the nicotine.

So yea maybe I gonna try quiting vaping, but with many things life feels more boring/less relaxing.
But oh yea so much better then smoking!!! no contest... I don't feel bad like with smoking, just buying a pack of sigs felt bad, how many times when smoking you just feel bad since you are doing it but can't stop, at least I got a much better alternative now and I don't feel bad about it when doing it.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Your pain was the pg. Likely with a subohm device.

a reply to: snarfbot

It looks like they arent divorcing nicotine from smoke.

Or did miss it?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: rickymouse

Salt is an antifreeze too. PG is FDA approved for food consumption.

Im sensitive to it. I vape 80% VG juice so i doesnt make me cough. Not everyone is.

The vegetable glycine is better. Here are a few articles that show what I am talking about.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

gizmodo.com...

They often use PG to keep cigarettes moist, I smoked Winstons before, they did not have that, most other cigarettes bothered my lungs. I tried vaping and my lungs got all messed up, I had a lack of air. I do lack an adequate amount of an enzyme that is needed to detox the propylene glycol. I can't break down one of the metabolic cycles well according to my DNA. I also have a problem with acetones for the same reason if I remember right, the smell will drive me right out of the room when my wife uses it. I also cannot stand some air fresheners or perfumes and aftershaves, they mess up my breathing. I thought this was a rare condition, but evidently twenty five percent of Northern Europeans have that same problem.

I do not trust GRAS. I have investigated their requirements and find that when they say Generally....it means that the majority of people can tolerate it, it does not say anything about effects of long term use, that is not tested. I learned about this studying medicines, just because it is a medicine does not mean everyone can use it. Not everyone can even use an aspirin or Tylenol, lots of people are negatively effected by it and Tylenol or iboprophen are hard on the liver and kidneys. People have been tricked to believe they are safe to use all the time. For most people, one baby aspirin can be tolerated, that is good medicine for many people who do not eat much veggies. But still, it can hurt some people.

Everyone is allergic to something, or should I state metabolically intolerant. There is a difference, when testing for allergies metabolic intolerance does not always show up yet it can kill someone. We have to be our own food and environmental doctors and analyze things we do.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof It's hard to find accurate info on the taste of pure nicotine but it has been described as having something like an acidic taste (not strong) which seems logical, especially if it is a salt of nicotine like HCl or SO4 and other describe it as mildly peppery - all of which could be hidden in many different drinks.

The Anarchists Cookbook tells you how to extract nicotine from tobacco to use as poison. It also warns that it's got a strong acrid flavour that you'd need to hide behind something with a string sweet flavour like honey...

a reply to: DiSmALiADaRkDuSt

100mg JUICE?.

If anything guy is probably talking about something calledSaltNic:



Them new POD systems like JUUL or whatever use em.



Squonk is life.

Jesus ppl..

Just get a Evolve DNA chip device, some 316l SS coils and use temp control if you are that worried.

Sauce LA has CLEAN juices I've noticed...my cotton last A LOT longer. Less sugar? Dunno, they claim to use ISO 5 lab standards.

Save MONEY and your LUNGS ... don't use questionable quality disposable coils (who REALLY knows what metal the coils are) and buy US-made stainless wire and build your own.

Cheaper, safer, tastier, more rewarding.

originally posted by: TheResidentAlien

originally posted by: Cygnis

Both systems get high reviews, but the one I got is made in China, so.

The company out of Florida looks like it has some good choices, and isn't badly priced.

Using 6mg juice, 3mg wasn't enough. /twitch-twitch

Juice and coils on the other hand - Get it all local. Its not just the quality of the goods, but pre-mixed juice doesn't travel so well and I don't trust the Chinese steel grades either.

HINT:

Advanced Vape Supply for GOOD steel from USA.