E-Cig VAPING - Trojan horse to cancer, addiction, COPD & more - more dangerous than AR-15's!

I don't know where to start, with the dangerous products of vaping or with anecdotal stories - The scientific info of the carrier liquids are at the bottom and the compounds they form when combusted in the vap chamber.

I can garuntee that the health problems and deaths that this product will lead to over the years (if not currently happening) will be many orders of magnitude greater than the problems (deaths) by the infamous AR-15, which has MANY GOOD uses while vaping, it can be argued, has very few positives.

I had a friend who smoked about a pack a week and decided to try e-cigs. It was nice b/c he didn't have to go outside and he would continue his work while he used it. Over about 2 weeks he found himself going from using one e-cig a day (they don't last ANYWHERE near the number of "puffs" they advertise - maybe 10% of advertized) to using 4 a day. He never had any problems of waking up in the middle of the night with a chest of phlem, but now it happened 3-6 times a night and he had to empty it into a soda bottle next to his bed (TOTALLY GROSS!) and daily ritual of emptying it. Then in the morning he sounded like he had bronchitis and was hacking up phlem for 30-120 minutes (less time if he took a really hot shower which loosened up his chest). This finally stated being a 24 hour thing, he had constant phlem which he had NEVER had before with cigarettes and he said he started having trouble catching his breath (at 26 years old and in AWESOME health). He quit the e-cigs and within 2-3 days the phlem had decreased by about 70-80% and then after a week almost completely. He had major withdrawl from the lack of nicotine so he smoked more cigarettes, probably 3 packs a week immediately after stopping vaping. He tapered back to his pack a week over 3-4 weeks and never had the chest congestion again.

Looking back at how his health changed, he had almost NO energy physically, when using the e-cigs, but he did a lot of computer work, did a lot of writing (he is an aspiring author). It also made him crave caffiene drinks which probably also helped with the mental acuity. Now he may smoke a pack every 10-14 days or even over a month at times and thinks anyone switching to e-cigs to quit cigarettes is in for major health problems and will spend A LOT of money (he spent as much in one day as he would in 30-45 days buying tobacco!). Now they have the re-fills which are less expensive.

Nicotine is a VERY toxic poison and can kill a person . For some reason the LD50/50 has been removed from Wiki over the last 4 years as I used this as a souirce on a number of occasions and it is no longer listed. VERY SHADY! Some sources state a LD50/50 at 30mg for an average adult and an almost 100% faral dose of 60mg+ for average adult (of 155lbs). For a mouse, it says that .334mg per Kg of body weight which correlates to 23.38mg for a 70KG/155lb mouse - which is a good indicator for humans and can be estimated at probably 2-3x more tolerance in humans which puts the number at 46mg to 70mg, so the numbers seem to all come out fairly similar from 4 different scientific sources.

Now the vaping companies sell nicotine concentrates of 100mg/ml where 1ml is enough to kill a person (with propylene glycol or Glycerine being the carrier solvent). Nicotine is also able to be absorbed through the skin and with the solvents they use, it actually makes the absorption easier and faster! You'll be happy to know that within the first 3 search results on Google, I was able to order a 55 gallon drum of 100mg/ml concentrate with my own custom flavor added to it and with a coupon code, I was able to get it shipped for FREE!

There are also the companies that have stepped out on a ledge and offer 990mg/ml, which is essentially 100% pure nicotine and a single drop of this on the skin is enough to kill a person in an agonizing death. I refuse to link to a site such as this that would sell such a product to the general public and not just businesses (which is bad enough).

I'm worried about kids having access to this poison which is more toxic than CYANIDE and totally unregulated except for a checkbox. A kid under 18 could get a greendot credit card and order this on Amazon, have it delivered to their drop boxes across the country and the parents would never know.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

You can start by not parroting out tobacco company propaganda.

Acrolein is the main compound formed from the combustion of glycerine (the most popular carrier solvent for vaping nicotine)
Acrolein was one of the major cancer causing components of cigarttes that caused worry in the health industry. Vaping can introduce 40-300x the amount of Acrolein than standard tobacco! The amounts estimated by the "vaping" (E-cig" industry) state that their product only generated "negligible amounts" of Acrolein at less than 10mcg) per puff (that is 1/100th of a milligram). The problem is how do you measure a "puff". Does an Ecig give 300 puffs of 5,000 puffs? I can attest that a normal user gets about 10% of the "puffs" of what they say they should, so the measurements are skewed to make levels look smaller.

Also, if the amount of glycerin that is burnt in an ecig is converted to Acrolein, than these numbers are off by a factor of 20-50x! IDK what they are staying the glycerin is being converted to when it comes into contact with the heating element, but if it is something non-toxic, then there has been a major breakthrough in chemistry and it would change the world of renewable energy (as glycerine is a major byproduct and there is a huge glut of it dropping the price to $.02 - $.08 per lb - because it can't be burnt cleanly due to Acrolein production.
The presence of Acrolein also effects the bladder, urniary tract, kidneys causing all kinds of problems from cysts to chronic disease.

Acrolein - Boiling point - 127 degrees F - Flash point temp - NEGATIVE 15 degrees F! Autoigniton temp is 532 deg F. This means if vapors are present at -15F and a spark is present it will flash ignite. If the temp rises to 532F it will spontaneously combust - At these temps the compound would be a vapor (hence the "Vaping"). Wiki states the following under Hazard Warnings: Highly poisonous. Causes severe irritation to exposed membranes. Extremely flammable liquid and vapor. Acrolein is toxic and is a strong irritant for the skin, eyes, and nasal passages.
The WHO suggests a "tolerable oral acrolein intake" of 7.5 μg per day per kg of body weight. OSHA has set a permissible exposure limit at 0.1 ppm (0.25 mg/m3) at an eight-hour time-weighted average.[12] Acrolein acts in an immuno suppressivemanner and may promote regulatory cells,[13] thereby preventing the generation of allergy on the one hand, but also increasing the risk of cancer.

Below are stats from Wiki
LD50/50 (median concentration) - the 50/50 means that 50% of those exposed to this level will die, the others live, so numbers lower than this can also cause death but it is a good reference number for toxicity.
875 ppm (mouse, 1 min)
175 ppm (mouse, 10 min)
150 ppm (dog, 30 min)
8 ppm (rat, 4 hr)
375 ppm (rat, 10 min)
25.4 ppm (hamster, 4 hr)
131 ppm (rat, 30 min)[2]
LCLo (lowest published)
674 ppm (cat, 2 hr)[2]


Glycerine/glycerol - boiling point - 554 degrees F -
Propylene Glycol (PG) - boiling point (vaporization point) 370degrees F produces

Other products from vaping
Acetaldehyde - carcenogen
Formaldehyde - irritant to mucous membranes, throat, lungs, sinuses, eyes. Can cause kidney disease, bladder infection and urniary tract problems. There are more studies about this product by OSHA and WHO stating that it is dangerous as it is a major component of polyurethanes, insulation, foams, etc used in building materials, and one of the most widely used products in industry. There are MAJOR saftey procedures in place when dealing with this chemical due to it's potential health hazards - enough to fill an entire 10,000 word posting. It also can cause psycho active effects similar to PCP when smoked (which is what is happening with Vaping - but in lower amounts - which may be why people get a better "high" from vaping). It used to be present in all kinds of plywood, particle board, MDF, press board (FEMA trailers that were condemned) all from off-gassing 10 years after manufacturing when levels were about 1/2 of a percent of original off-gassing immediately after manufacture.

The carrier Propylene Glycol seems to be less of a health risk as it is heavily used in the pharmaceutical industry even in injectable drugs but can cause upper respratory tract irritation (similar to pneumonia and bronchitis at same time) when vaporized and inhaled. Wiki states "According to a 2010 study by Karlstad University, the concentrations of PGEs (counted as the sum of propylene glycol and glycol ethers) in indoor air, particularly bedroom air, has been linked to increased risk of developing numerous respiratory and immune disorders in children, including asthma, hay fever, eczema, and allergies, with increased risk ranging from 50% to 180%" I was unable to find what the compound breaks down into when oxidized at high temperatures and will return with answers when I find this.

It is ABSOLUTELY clear that all of the reports submitted to Congress have been created by the nicotine industry, just like they did 50+ years ago when they said cigarettes did not cause cancer. There needs to be a MAJOR investigation into these products and methodology and those who popularize it such as HOLLYWOOD need to be held accountable. Any company that allows for advertising of their products should be shunned/boycotted and people need to write letters to them informing them of how dangerous these products are.

There is always a lag between the release of a product and the public becoming informed to the danger, and within this time period there are untold profits reaped, and untold damaged inflicted upon the unsuspecting public. I suggest anyone who has any concern about these products to write their congress person & senator and tell them they need to investigate this AS MUCH as they are into school security and gun issues. One is a constitutional right while the other is a vice that has extremely negative health effects and I will guarantee the long term effect will be sky-rocketing health care costs and insurance premiums due to people using these.

I propose that there be a ban on smoking these things in public or around children and it needs to be just as stringent as cigarette smoking. While it may not have the 100's of chemicals of cigarettes (many of which are at levels so small they are basically negligible even over a decade of use/smoking) the byproducts of vaping have been underestimated and hidden in order to allow their use and promotion in media and in public spaces, including advertising to children (remember Joe camel cartoons - same story, just with the new angle - target children).

How do we get congress to look at this problem with seriousness?

Thanks for reminding me, I need to get some more juice, I'm almost out.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I hate to tell you this...but you are patently amd absurdly wrong.


If you believe you arent wrong....i need evidence. Because your evidence is wrong too.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I know that’s you Dick Cheney.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I hate to tell you this...but you are patently amd absurdly wrong.


If you believe you arent wrong....i need evidence. Because your evidence is wrong too.

Should add: 2.5 years cig free. I vape copious amounts all day every day.

Sounds like he is talking more about the crappy gas station ones.

It would be pretty amazing if the whole natural product is worse than the man created replacement liquid. I understand there is a lot of processing that goes into the commercially manufactured product, but you can still buy loose tobacco and roll it yourself.

It will probably be another 3-6 years before the true results of the liquid are felt and probably another 10-15 years before they are allowed to see the light of day.

Why is intuition so rejected these days?

If the liquid is shown to be much worse than even the commercially produced tobacco product, will people believe it? Interesting times ahead.

Sounds like he is talking more about the crappy gas station ones.

I quit smoking 4 years ago and started vaping and my health and general morale has improved greatly since then. It's easier to wake up in the mornings, I notice smells and tastes that I used to not be able to detect at all.

The health benefits are 100% clear for me.

Is it for everyone? Absolutely not.

One of the things you didn't mention is that people who have been smoking cigarettes for a long time don't start to experience a lot of health issues until they finally quit. So your friend could have very easily gotten these problems from years of smoking and you don't know the wiser so you associate it with vaping.

Vaping has already been proven to be at least 95% safer than cigarettes.

You sound like a propaganda machine my friend.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Don't you get an annoying voice in the back of your head saying 'what if'?

Mine was so loud that I could only handle the liquid for a month and then switched back.

I make juice. Have been for 4 years. Stop with all this nonsense. I'm almost shocked you didn't start this off with Popcorn lung drama.

I work next to a vape shop. They make their own juices. The stuff is flavoring, mostly natural, food grade glycerin, and some nicotine.

All domestic, nothing weird from China. That said, I sure as hell don't vape,

Reminds me of an ad I saw in a magazine...the FDA approved a drug that is an injection a few times a year that

Along with a low calorie diet and exercise had people lose 6% more weight.
They didn't know what drugs it would interact with but hey it's on the market!

F the FDA.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Tobacco companies are pressuring the FDA to regulate vaping so that they can be the only ones to offer the product. I finally quit smoking and now vape with 3 mg strength. Within 3 days, my smokers cough and chronic bronchitis was gone!

I am not saying it is healthy but it is a hell of a lot less damaging than cigarettes (unless you can really prove differently).

As mentioned, in the US, it is hard to find out information as there is propaganda put out by big tobacco. Here are the UK stories on the subject:

Long-term vaping 'far safer than smoking' says 'landmark' study
www.nhs.uk...

www.nhs.uk...

NHS hospitals should sell e-cigarettes, says Government agency
www.independent.co.uk...

NHS Health Scotland: E-cigs 'definitely' less harmful than smoking
www.bbc.com...

a reply to: ClovenSky

Wow... no, inhaling the carcinogenic smoked plant material, that has added to it a plethora of addictive chemicals, is not safer than inhaling the vaporised nicotine and the same stuff that has been used in smoke machines at concerts for decades. Where are all the reports of kids developing cancer later in life from going to so many concerts? Smog machines. They'll give you the cancers..

It's 100% tobacco industry hype, as they're losing revenue to this.

Nothing is 100% safe either, so any evidence that they find by digging past the veil of normalcy into the absurd, they will turn into a DHMO style scaremongering fact sheet, intended to scare people back onto the good ol' flavour country cigarette.

You know cooking bacon is carcinogenic? And toast? Ohhhh Noooo, quick ban toasters and bacon.

But there is no reason to, no big industry is afraid of people eating corn flakes over toast. So no studies. No scaremongering.

Who told you that inhaling a burnt plant is safer? Give them a whack on the nose for me, and tell them to sit down.

The real question is: why do you care what I decide to put in my body. Why don’t you mind your own beeswax.

He never had any problems of waking up in the middle of the night with a chest of phlem, but now it happened 3-6 times a night and he had to empty it into a soda bottle next to his bed (TOTALLY GROSS!)

Stopped reading here. This is because he stopped smoking cigarettes and the built up # is breaking up.

We should ban vaping, after all, vaping is responsible for the deaths of those killed in mass shootings.

OP is literally copying and pasting wiki entries on VG/PG lol

originally posted by: RomeByFire

He never had any problems of waking up in the middle of the night with a chest of phlem, but now it happened 3-6 times a night and he had to empty it into a soda bottle next to his bed (TOTALLY GROSS!)

Stopped reading here. This is because he stopped smoking cigarettes and the built up # is breaking up.

We should ban vaping, after all, vaping is responsible for the deaths of those killed in mass shootings.

OP is literally copying and pasting wiki entries on VG/PG lol

2nd hand vape will kill millions!

Honest, Phillip Morris told me.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: RomeByFire

He never had any problems of waking up in the middle of the night with a chest of phlem, but now it happened 3-6 times a night and he had to empty it into a soda bottle next to his bed (TOTALLY GROSS!)

Stopped reading here. This is because he stopped smoking cigarettes and the built up # is breaking up.

We should ban vaping, after all, vaping is responsible for the deaths of those killed in mass shootings.

OP is literally copying and pasting wiki entries on VG/PG lol

2nd hand vape will kill millions!

Honest, Phillip Morris told me.

When I vape, I regularly walk up to children (especially in strollers) and blow phat clouds right in their face.

VapeNation