The Truman Show or The Human Show

a reply to: whereislogic

Nobodies idea on any issue is off the mark, is like opinions, everybody has one.
And accepting anybody else words as final is an act of indoctrination. And yes I accept that most of our initial thought were implanted by our parents, teachers, etc.. We are, now, in a position to debate those ideas and break the chain of indoctrination.

a reply to: intrptr

Is like music, some people are natural born musicians, others just go to school and learn how to play.

I'm far from having that kind of control. Working on that, but with 2 kids and a wife to keep is more challenging.

a reply to: Abednego

Oh absolutely, thats the real deal: life, love and family.

a reply to: Abednego

1. If God did not wanted them to have knowledge why He put the tree of science in there? 2. If God did not wanted them to have eternal life why He put the tree of life in there?

You have misunderstood the literature of the Hebrews. There is a lot of other literature just as important as the Hebrew Tanakh that does give your questions the answers.

The Gan Eden was not of this world nor were the man and woman of this world. They were celestial creatures who existed from the garden and the tree of life. The science tree, as you call it, was the tree of knowledge to know right from wrong and not a tree of scientific intelligence. The man and woman both understood language and existence with their creator but they did not understand the ramifications of disobedience. Why did they not understand the ramifications of disobedience? Simply because it had never been introduced to them. They knew that disobedience was not to be entertained but they knew nothing more than that of what the results of sin were.

As they left the garden their substance was changed from celestial to terrestrial without the tree of life to sustain them. The substance change from celestial to terrestrial in both inside and outside the garden was the creation of death. Death was not known to exist till that time. Even the serpent who entertained Satan and the entire terrestrial world knew no death till death was created from this episode.

The Hebrew literature from 4 Ezra will explain most all of which you may want to know. There are two good sources for this literature which are listed as The Cepher Adam v'Chuah Ri'shon and the Cepher Adam v'Chuah Sheniy. The oldest rendition is from the Ethiopian Bible from the the second century CE. This is the oldest known bible today and was first translated to English in 1881 CE. Both were first translated from Ethiopian to German by Ernest Trumpp and then into English by Soloman Cesar Malan. They both were later reprinted by R.H. Charles.

I bought my copy from Eth Cepher titled Bere'shiyth [Beginnings]. Eth Cepher books are available on internet. Very reliable outlet for Hebrew to English.

a reply to: Seede

You have misunderstood the literature of the Hebrews. There is a lot of other literature just as important as the Hebrew Tanakh that does give your questions the answers.

I have not misunderstood anything. My questions were directed in a way to incite the debate about that issue in particular and probably is a matter of another thread. (most of my premises may be that way)

I'm well aware of the Hebrew literature and it's complexities.

The thing about the "tree of science" is a rough translation from Spanish (my native language) to English. The Spanish version call that tree the tree of science of good and evil. (El arbol de la ciencia del bien y del mal, while the translation from English should be: el arbol de la sabiduria del bien y del mal). Why the difference in translation? Who knows why.

The Gan Eden was not of this world nor were the man and woman of this world. They were celestial creatures who existed from the garden and the tree of life.

They were made from the dust of the earth, they were not celestial creatures.

The mere existence of the "Tree of Life" is an indicative that they were not immortals (but they have the potential to be). And they just did not knew it.

a reply to: Abednego

TextI have not misunderstood anything. My questions were directed in a way to incite the debate about that issue in particular and probably is a matter of another thread. (most of my premises may be that way) I'm well aware of the Hebrew literature and it's complexities.

The really interesting thing here is; The tree of life was already there and the tree of science was already there, so. 1. If God did not wanted them to have knowledge why He put the tree of science in there? 2. If God did not wanted them to have eternal life why He put the tree of life in there? So the snake was not that wise, I would have said to them eat from the tree of life first and then eat from the tree of science. (Something is happening here, hmmm) Need to investigate a bit more.

Was the serpent a snake or a beast?

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

The world was good and without sin when Adam was formed. That means that the earth was pure and was celestial till it too was cursed and became terrestrial. Otherwise it would have had no need to be cursed the same as Adam and Eve were cursed. Adam was formed from the purity of the earth and not from this corrupt earth of today.

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

Death was then created and the earth must die just as Adam must die. Then the garden was taken from this cursed creation and placed in the celestial New Jerusalem. The garden was always separate from the earth and was never cursed. From that day on is the reason that the earthly soul was never allowed to exist in the celestial realm and must return to the cursed earth.
My opinions of course.

Was the serpent a snake or a beast?

Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made....
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According this verse the serpent is a beast that turned into a snake.

The world was good and without sin when Adam was formed. That means that the earth was pure and was celestial till it too was cursed and became terrestrial.

The world was good and pure, but still terrestrial, not celestial (the garden is not a spiritual place according the bible text). The garden of Eden (according the text) is a reachable terrestrial place otherwise God would not have put a sword with cherubs protecting the entrance. No need to do all that if He is taking the Garden to another place.

Genesis 2:15
The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.
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Here is quite obvious that God did not created man in the garden, Adam was created somewhere else and taken into the garden later. So Adam knew the way to get to the garden.

Now, I want to be clear that I'm giving you this explanation base solely on what the biblical text is saying. Of course this is not something to be taken literally. And there are a whole lot more interpretations about this text in other books.

Cheers!!!

a reply to: Abednego

Christianity is retarded. Please convert to my religion: Crutchism. The only book-based religion that can be understood by native English speakers.

Tenets of the Crutch: Man was created immortal, in God's image. Man now resides in Satans ass.

a reply to: whereislogic

They became progressive liberal democrats!

a reply to: Abednego

They were thrown out for being disobedient.

Adam was to toil and Eve to suffer childbirth. Basically the pains of life outside the Garden.

As to the Tree of Life, not sure anyone has explained that. I could be wrong but God put the 120 yrs limit on people anyway.

I'll ask my friend about that. He's studying for his MA in Theology.


Never watched the Truman show btw, so forgive me if I missed any references.

a reply to: burgerbuddy
It's true that there are many democrats who think they can judge or decide for themselves what is good and what is bad in the manner described in my previous comment (not a mere evaluation based on the teachings of God regarding what is good and what is bad but having a standard of their own). But the situation is the same with Republicans even when they claim to adhere to God's teachings regarding that subject.

Both for example consider it a good thing to support a political party, vote and therefore "put their trust in ....a son of man" (Psalm 146:3), such as Donald Trump right now. Voting in Donald Trump for president says a lot about those Republicans that are professing to be Christians, especially those pastors who are very outspoken in their support of Trump.

Psalm 146:3-8 (NWT)

3 Do not put your trust in princes* [Or “nobles.”]

Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.

4 His spirit* [Or “breath.”] goes out, he returns to the ground;

On that very day his thoughts perish.

5 Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob as his helper,

Whose hope is in Jehovah his God,

6 The Maker of heaven and earth,

Of the sea, and of all that is in them,

The One who always remains faithful,

7 The One securing justice for those defrauded,

The One giving bread to the hungry.

Jehovah is releasing the prisoners.* [Lit., “bound ones.”]

8 Jehovah is opening the eyes of the blind;

Jehovah is raising up those bowed down;

Jehovah loves the righteous.

'Funny' how Jehovah is mentioned 5 times in these 6 verses yet most bible translations won't even mention him once in the entire chapter. These bible translators act as if he's Voldemort or something.

They were thrown out for being disobedient.

Adam was to toil and Eve to suffer childbirth. Basically the pains of life outside the Garden.

The movie is a reality show about a man (he does not know he is in a show), he has the perfect family, perfect friends, perfect job, but still not fully happy, somehow he was missing something. And decided to go far beyond he was permitted.
So the post is about what if Adam and Eve instead of being thrown out, they were the ones that decided to go out?

As to the Tree of Life, not sure anyone has explained that. I could be wrong but God put the 120 yrs limit on people anyway.

The marvel of human mind, God was afraid of man living forever so he throw them out of the Garden of Eden fearing they may eat from the Tree of life and became immortals. But still they could live almost to 1,000 years. That is a lot of time to think and figure out a lot of stuff.

originally posted by: Abednego
First of all I'm not really sure if this is the right forum for this topic, it could be philosophy too I guess.

During the weekend I was watching the movie The Truman Show, and suddenly I was transported to the garden of Eden. This "isolated" area were the 2 humans were living the perfect life. No problems, no hassles, no worries.
And then questions started to come to their minds like, what is in the other side of the "fence"? or simply has the urge to do something else than just be there.
And then they talk with God right there at the door.

What if, if instead of them been thrown out, they were the ones that decided to go out.

What do think guys?

Adam and Eve were perfectly happy in the garden of Eden.
Why would they risk going into the unknown?

Why would god allow them to leave Eden for no apparent reason?

Also, Earth wasn't a cursed land at that time. Earth may not be a place for Adam and Eve to live.

Adam and Eve were perfectly happy in the garden of Eden.
Why would they risk going into the unknown?

Why would god allow them to leave Eden for no apparent reason?

Also, Earth wasn't a cursed land at that time. Earth may not be a place for Adam and Eve to live.

"Truman" was perfectly happy in "Safeheaven".
Why would he risk going into the unknown?

Is a matter of choice; if you have the opportunity (or the urge) to do something different, will you do it? or not? Some people will not, others will do.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Why would the "director" allow him to leave "Safeheaven" for no apparent reason?

Free will. Like the director said in the movie, if he really want to go, I will let him go.

a reply to: Abednego
If Adam and Eve leave on their own free will, a lot of things could have change.

1. Men will no longer have "Adam's Apple" and Women's breast will no longer grow larger.

2. Women will not suffer childbirth's pain.

3. We could no longer know good and evil.

4. There will be no "first sin", therefore Jesus may likely doesn't exist to save human. Since Jesus doesn't exist, so do christian. No christian, mean no crusade. Pagan world would likely be conquered by Moslems and Islam become the largest religion today.

5. No christian, mean a lot of technology based on Bible do not exist, for example astronomy. Arabs may have advance astronomy but without christian intellects, they couldn't go far. We may not experience enlightened age.

I'm not sure it would be in god's best interest to let Adam and Eve leave the garden of Eden out of their free will. Remember, god is omniscient. Everything happen today is within god's knowledge. Perhaps it would be best not to change what is meant to be fate.

originally posted by: Abednego
a reply to: DD2029


I really have no idea how flat earth is related to this post.

The whole subject of "Flat Earth" was created as a side show distraction, started by an intelligence, that does not want current mankind that reside on the outer surface of this planet, to comprehend the true nature of this planet, and all others. They hide the true location of "Heaven". Not all left the "Garden".

originally posted by: EasternShadow
a reply to: Abednego
If Adam and Eve leave on their own free will, a lot of things could have change.

1. Men will no longer have "Adam's Apple" and Women's breast will no longer grow larger.

2. Women will not suffer childbirth's pain.

3. We could no longer know good and evil.

4. There will be no "first sin", therefore Jesus may likely doesn't exist to save human. Since Jesus doesn't exist, so do christian. No christian, mean no crusade. Pagan world would likely be conquered by Moslems and Islam become the largest religion today.

5. No christian, mean a lot of technology based on Bible do not exist, for example astronomy. Arabs may have advance astronomy but without christian intellects, they couldn't go far. We may not experience enlightened age.

I'm not sure it would be in god's best interest to let Adam and Eve leave the garden of Eden out of their free will. Remember, god is omniscient. Everything happen today is within god's knowledge. Perhaps it would be best not to change what is meant to be fate.

But what if all those things came because they decided to leave?

If God is omniscient, then why He put the tree in there if he knew there was a possibility of them eating?

(This is just speculation, but make you wonder)

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

The post is about the act of willfully leaving a comfort zone to adventure into the unknown. But your explanation gives it another dimension.


Thanks.

originally posted by: Abednego

But what if all those things came because they decided to leave?

Everything was triggered by the "first sin".

In order for Earth to be cursed, Adam and Eve must commit first sin.

Without the "first sin" there is no cause for Jesus's existence. Jesus's sole purpose of existence depended on it.

Without Jesus, there is no cause for Christianity. Without Christianity, there is no cause for crusades. Without crusades there is no cause for Moslems to limit their world conquest. Without Christianity there is no cause for secularism. Without secularism, there is no cause for democracy and etc..

Everything was and is linked by one another. Removing one will cause the other to fail. It's a butterfly effect. Even small change could greatly alter the entire reality.

Everything is governed by law of cause and effect. Nothing is magic.

If God is omniscient, then why He put the tree in there if he knew there was a possibility of them eating?

(This is just speculation, but make you wonder)

I do not claim to know God's mind, but maybe, it was predestined.

Adam and Eve must commit first sin so Jesus could exist.

Fate is evil. But without god's plan, you, I and everything we know today will cease to exist.

Double post