The religious bottleneck of the first century.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Akragon

Hey, Mr. Cherry Picker, why don't you read verse 12 to see the explanation for verse 11...

Isaiah 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

And that says absolutely nothing about dying for the sins of others or sacrificing anyone for that matter

a reply to: Akragon

Here, let me highlight the words you overlooked in that verse...

Isaiah 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

a reply to: Deetermined

ya i didn't miss it...

Its not talking about Jesus... according to Christianity HE died for people sins... which is not what that says

a reply to: Akragon

Who exactly then was it that poured out their soul unto death and bared the sins of many to make intercession for the transgressors in the Old Testament?!

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Akragon

Who exactly then was it that poured out their soul unto death and bared the sins of many to make intercession for the transgressors in the Old Testament?!

that would be Israel... same people the rest of the chapter and the previous chapter, and the one following it are talking about...

again, try reading the book

a reply to: Akragon

So, you just admitted that you really are stating that the people of Israel will die to become intercessors for sin! Ha! Ha!

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Akragon

So, you just admitted that you really are stating that the people of Israel will die to become intercessors for sin! Ha! Ha!

LMAO!!

Actually what you just did was prove to everyone reading this that reading comprehension is not your strong suit

I'll say it again and bold it so you can read it correctly

It doesn't say that someone will die for anyone's sins... Nor does it mention a sacrifice

All you're doing is trying to shoehorn Your Paulianity into Judaism... and it doesn't work

unless, like you... one doesn't understand the context of the chapter and passages your reading

get it?

probably not

a reply to: Akragon

Wow! I'm seriously embarrassed for you! Talk about poor reading comprehension! I don't think I've ever seen ignorance run this deep before on ATS!

a reply to: Deetermined

You just have to look in the mirror apparently

a reply to: Akragon

To prove that you haven't chugged one too many of those beers you keep posting, why don't you pick apart verse Isaiah 53:12 for us and tell us exactly what you think it means word for word.

a reply to: Deetermined

Certainly...

haven't got into the beers yet by the way... headed out soon though

when the writer of the book says "HE" they mean Israel... which is exactly what is said though out chapters 52-54

for the 20th time.... try reading them to get some actual understanding of what is being written about as opposed to just believing the crap you've been taught your whole life...

Israel is the suffering servant... and its said MANY MANY times in the book...

its not a place, its a people... the descendants of Jacob

Thank God im used to repeating myself when talking to you people

bloody thick?

a reply to: Akragon

You might want to check the usage of the word "servant" again in all of Isaiah...

Isaiah 42:1 - Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (Israel won't be judging the Gentiles)

Isaiah 43:10 - Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 44:1 - Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:

Isaiah 44:2 - Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 44:21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

Isaiah 49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Isaiah 49:7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

Isaiah 50:10 Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.

Isaiah 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

a reply to: Deetermined

Read your own post... LOL

Israel is the servant...

a reply to: Akragon

Notice that Israel is only referred to as "Thee" or "Ye", not "He". He is someone else.

a reply to: Deetermined

Actually no...

Israel is very often referred to as "He" and in the singular sense

Its not referring to Jesus... That is christian dogma

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Akragon

Wow! I'm seriously embarrassed for you! Talk about poor reading comprehension! I don't think I've ever seen ignorance run this deep before on ATS!

One of the more idiotic things I have read.

What we say of others to hurt and degrade, often covers our own ineptness.

P

a reply to: Deetermined

There are dozens of examples of god talking to Israel in the singular..


Watch some debates..

Jews for Judaism Youtube channel has oodles..

Christian theologians will concede the point.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Christian theologians will concede the point.

Christian fundies wouldn't ever...

a reply to: Akragon

Yea .. it would have saved a lot of people a lot of blood if the Romans just make their own religion up, rather than piggybacking the Jews..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Deetermined

There are dozens of examples of god talking to Israel in the singular..


Watch some debates..

Jews for Judaism Youtube channel has oodles..

Christian theologians will concede the point.

Where's your example of Israel being referred to as "He"? There isn't one. Israel and Jerusalem is always referred to in the feminine, which is why we have the woman in Revelation 12.