Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Doesn't everyone have this symbiosis (or what looks like it) to some degree? Musicians have their moment of inspiration, scientists have their 'eureka moment', etc..

Or is assuming everyone who's thinking but doesn't know how they dropped to a certain conclusion pushing it a bit too much?

I just see this same type of behaviour happening in the rational context as well and would like your thoughts on it.

Musicians may not be the best example ...

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

Frankly, standard models of neurology and psychology can explain most if not all
Eureka moments.

But of course your thinking is on track to ask.

Originally, I developed this model, to explain what happened when the so-called
Kundalini process had finished within my body, and my "true self" left me behind
to die; and rather than the "cosmic entity" being "me", I turned out to be the
discarded wrapper lying broken on the floor.

Now as always.. heavy disclaimers here.. what I experienced could well be explained
as simple conversion disorder taken to the extreme..

As I said, the model was developed to explain the extraordinary, not the ordinary..
but if there is any truth to the theory.. then of course we must examine all the
implications of it, not just the most exotic ones.

Hard to test for exotic information-based quantum lifeforms interacting at a level
beyond our instruments of course.

That's why the most exotic cases.. with heavy physical evidence is the lowest
hanging fruit.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hi Kev,

There are a number of differing topics intermingled in this thread as we all know. But going back to the very start of this thread is the comment that launched the whole post.....

One source of Robert Bigelow’s claims in the quote above involve a French ‘researcher’ Antoine Gigal. Physicist Jack Sarfatti described her as “accompanied by a body guard carrying a mystery briefcase allegedly containing "some kind of 'psychotronic' weapon based on alien ET technology.".

According to Sarfatti's account, Gigal claimed a gun battle took place at Skinwalker Ranch with paramilitary guards involved in a shootout against aliens emerging from a portal or wormhole type of phenomenon. He said he’d heard the rumour while visiting London in 2004, in the company of Nick Cook (a British Aerospace Journalist). Sarfatti said the woman claimed to be part of a semi-secret Paris UFO group, and the woman attributed the story to Jacques Vallee. Jack Sarfatti also stated:

"Allegedly Jacques Vallee denies the story, but now Bob Bigelow seems to have gone public with it -albeit without the details."

Artistic impression of gun battle with strange phenomena on Skinwalker Ranch

It seems Jack even flew by and confirmed the quotes of him were accurate : Link

Do you (or anyone else) have any thoughts on this? Very strange, very interesting but what the hell is it all about?

I have to leave for a few hours now. So will pick up later or maybe tomorrow.

a reply to: mirageman

You want to know about people being hurt?

I can't speak as to whether there are weird agents of the government walking/flying
around with weird psychotropic devices testing them on people. It's certainly possible.
The government dosed random strangers in LA, CA with '___'.

Now onto the larger subject of people being hurt.. I have a bit of a personal encounter
I don't tend to discuss, that ties into the age of golden UFO's too!

Did you ever notice, that often people in the golden age of UFOs would see a weird
alien (like a comic book character / goofy robot / elf or something) take out a little
rod / ray gun and shoot them with a paralysis beam? or Something that hurt even
worse?

Well I had something like that happen to me too.

30 minutes before I saw the big old BTUFO, a weird critter jumped out of the shadows
in my back yard and "got me".

I was paralyzed for about 10 minutes and couldn't move.

Now obviously, being rational and a fan of science.. and having certain information
available to me.. I don't like trotting out this event... as people assume that there
was a little alien with a ray gun.. only I know that there wasn't.

The image of the "alien" was taken from my mind.. it was from a movie called Phantasm III
that had limited release in the USA. Having trained my mind a bit, and the autistic near
photographic memory (when younger anyway.. my brains been fried).. I have some access
to my unconscious mind. So I usually know when I"m being deceived with images from my
own brain.

That said, the paralysis was real. I could breathe and think.. and my heart was ok.. but
otherwise.. absolutely immobile for ten minutes.

the BTUFO too, was drawn from images in my mind.. I recognized all of them.. except
the original one.. the "pure" BTUFO was similar to pictures I've seen, but had important
details different than anything else anywhere.

But in short.. yes... people an get paralyzed.. "radiated" and hurt.

And strictly speaking I still don't know the "real answer" behind all this.. I know pieces..
but not the whole picture.

Did you want a different type of response?

a reply to: mirageman


The purported gun battle with aliens at the Skinwalker Ranch...sounds like pure hokum --- imho --- which just might be another ruse, cooked-up by Vallee, so he can sell more books and brainwash people along the way.

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: mirageman


The purported gun battle with aliens at the Skinwalker Ranch...sounds like pure hokum --- imho --- which just might be another ruse, cooked-up by Vallee, so he can sell more books and brainwash people along the way.

Erno,

That story sounds like pure hokum to me too.

But you are wrong to trott out your pure hatred of Dr. Vallee.. the man who helped invent the Internet
you love to use to troll him..

Dr. Vallee writes about mythology.. and interviews people who think that they have seen
something.. but he doesn't act like a gibbering baboon like most "UFO personalities".

The man is wealthy.. he owns venture capital companies.. he probably loses more money
on investigating UFO's out of his own pocket, than all the rest of the gibbering monkeys
of UFO entertainment even make.

'John Snow, you know nothing".

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

Hi mirageman - I've been enjoying this thread (hi KPB) very much!!

I have a vague memory of reading an interview with Jacque Vallee wherein he debunks/refutes the story that Antoine Gigal tells about an 'alien gun battle at Skinwalker Ranch' -

- unfortunately, I cannot locate that interview...however I did find a link where Jack Sarfatti explains that 'he' discovered the story to be false after speaking to Vallee himself..

(I have to type links by hand, as I don't know how to copy and paste, so bear with me and I will keep editing until I know the link works - it's a long one too!)


sources deny extraterrestrial battle

omg, got it on the first try - weehee!! You have to scroll down pretty far the article to where Sarfatti is talking about the French woman..

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: mirageman


The purported gun battle with aliens at the Skinwalker Ranch...sounds like pure hokum --- imho --- which just might be another ruse, cooked-up by Vallee, so he can sell more books and brainwash people along the way.

No, Valle's job was and is to debunk the crazy alien stories.

He's just another chess piece a little above a pawn

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

phantasm. now that's an Interesting word.

a reply to: lostgirl

(nice to see you LG)

I hate how people have all these deluded theories about JV. If it wasn't for him and his
pentacle memorandum, and "Messengers of Deception" we'd all be 10x as deceived as
we are now.

Now do I think that he's capable of being "played" sometimes.. sure.. we all are.

Thanks for the link! I had it in the back of my head that he denied that incident as well...
but I could hardly say that, unless I could find a link.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Kev, as you know, I believe if there is a paranormal solution to this phenomena, I think your theory is the most likely. I also have great respect for Jacque Vallee.

However, when you quote the Pantacle Memorandum as one of the two big things from Jacques I have to comment because I feel it was a low point for Vallee and is misleading.

For someone wanting a truly scientific study of UFOS - what Pentacle describes would be an absolute necessity and as we've discussed his work with databases, and therefore statistics would make it quite clear what Pentacle was.

I can only offer three alternatives:
1) Jacques knows far more about Pentacle, and Hynek than he was willing to say. (perhaps about graphics capable, networked computer systems as well...)
2) Jacques misinterprets the Memorandum out of ignorance (let's call it a bad day)
3) Jacques willfully misinterprets the Memorandum

The Pentacle Memorandum describes an essential statistical measurement that must take place for any scientific investigation.

Of course, what it comes down to for most people is, and how Vallee presents it is "the government are faking UFOS".It leaves a slightly unpalatable taste in the mouth.

Of course, sometimes science does, but Jacques' proposal to move 'upstream' the control system and test / inject into it is really the same proposal. The attempt to interfere with the 'control system' is very similar to Pentacle as you'll be well aware Kev.

My point being, Vallee casts, intentionally or not, suspicion on Hynek and distorts the likely meaning of Pentacle.

There is one final thought. If Vallee did run his test of the 'control system' then why has he never spoken about it or his results, either positive or negative. Here Vallee could add clarity to whatever results he got back - I wish he would.

Holy SH!TBALLS KEV.... Just grab us by the ears and ....t#o@t $!*# us all in the @$$. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. You hurt my brain and I love it.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Kev just so people can follow your line of thought on this in layman's terms. (Please correct me if I am wrong because I might be!).

What you are proposing is that there is a non-biological form of life that exists alongside us in the universe. Call it a plasma based life form if you like. Although that may be an oversimplification.

This lifeform is attracted to certain human beings (possibly other biological lifeforms) and infects the host human in a form of Quantum Symbiosis. This can lead to , for want of a better term, Quantum Schizophrenia in those that can't handle it all.

In other words "It's life Kev but not as we know it".

Actually not bad...

Now 'plasma' evokes images of high energy, high-temperature "plasma". we are talking about
something reaching from the vacuum of space.. which.. also seems to infect that
"hot plasma" from time to time.. when there is a free energy available.. it might
be able to interact with our space/time.

Quantum symbiosis? Yah.. not bad. It's very tricky.. this pairing of coherent
information critters from the void.. who LIVE at the subatomic level..
with human beings.

My initial research blew me away.. when I realized that yoga and other
religious practices (including some Christian mysticism and others) is
actually designed to give the "little guys" (what I call them) a foothold
in a human.

Humans then call this active presence "the holy spirit", "Kundalini", "chi"
their "soul" and all these words. But none of "that" is "us". It's "them".

This is the "hideous truth" so to speak. If you care about having a soul
at least.. but wise people, such as a "buddha" know the situation..
and are not concerned with it. There's more to the story of course..

UFO "experiencers" feel telepathic messages from their "UFOs". But it's
the exact same thing.

As dramatic and awful as i all sounds.. it's actually quite mundane..
if humans were a tad more educated.. and a tad less superstitious
none of this stuff would be a problem at all.

"We" are functionally the "hardware" that part of "their" uncionscious
mind executes from (consider them like computer code).

I suspect that all life everywhere in the "physical universe" is. It's just
the way of things.. nothing to stress about.

That's my 3 cents in crypto-currenency.

PPS: I don't buy the Penrose quantum consciousness theory.. I have my own
competing theory, which I believe works much better.. but i'd need help to
validate it, with lab resources. But i do concur that there is a "back door"
between quantum and classical bits possible.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

You want to know about people being hurt?

I can't speak as to whether there are weird agents of the government walking/flying
around with weird psychotropic devices testing them on people. It's certainly possible.
The government dosed random strangers in LA, CA with '___'.

Now onto the larger subject of people being hurt.. I have a bit of a personal encounter
I don't tend to discuss, that ties into the age of golden UFO's too!

Did you ever notice, that often people in the golden age of UFOs would see a weird
alien (like a comic book character / goofy robot / elf or something) take out a little
rod / ray gun and shoot them with a paralysis beam? or Something that hurt even
worse?

Well I had something like that happen to me too.

30 minutes before I saw the big old BTUFO, a weird critter jumped out of the shadows
in my back yard and "got me".

I was paralyzed for about 10 minutes and couldn't move.

Now obviously, being rational and a fan of science.. and having certain information
available to me.. I don't like trotting out this event... as people assume that there
was a little alien with a ray gun.. only I know that there wasn't.

The image of the "alien" was taken from my mind.. it was from a movie called Phantasm III
that had limited release in the USA. Having trained my mind a bit, and the autistic near
photographic memory (when younger anyway.. my brains been fried).. I have some access
to my unconscious mind. So I usually know when I"m being deceived with images from my
own brain.

That said, the paralysis was real. I could breathe and think.. and my heart was ok.. but
otherwise.. absolutely immobile for ten minutes.

the BTUFO too, was drawn from images in my mind.. I recognized all of them.. except
the original one.. the "pure" BTUFO was similar to pictures I've seen, but had important
details different than anything else anywhere.

But in short.. yes... people an get paralyzed.. "radiated" and hurt.

And strictly speaking I still don't know the "real answer" behind all this.. I know pieces..
but not the whole picture.

Did you want a different type of response?

My encounter had me totally paralysed (apart from my mind) as well... for a good 10 minutes..... But not from anything but pure fear... Being in my 40's and rather adventurous, I've got myself into many a situation where I've been actually paralysed with fear... I don't need to go into details but I will if pressed..... But I digress... What I'm saying IS that my encounter filled me with pure, natural, paralysing fear, and experience says I'm not a pussy..... And what I saw was original and new to my brain as far as I know.... Actually, I lie... I'd driven through the same area, in the early hours of the morning, on a spontaneous surf trip, 15 years earlier and I'd seen (albeit from a long distance) an eerily similar craft, which emitted a sound which sounded higher pitched from that distance, but modulated in the same way.... 4 witnesses to that event who seemingly suppressed it until pressured by me.... but no suggestions by books or magazines or films....

a reply to: lostgirl

HI there lg. Thank you for that link.

Yes - you are correct Vallée supposedly refuted the story and Sarfatti said :

"Allegedly Jacques Vallée denies the story, but now Bob Bigelow seems to have gone public with it - albeit without the details."

It's in the opening post on page one of the thread. I thought I'd added it in my earlier post. But apparently not! So sorry for the confusion there.

The story :

Antoine Gigal. Physicist Jack Sarfatti described her as “accompanied by a body guard carrying a mystery briefcase allegedly containing "some kind of 'psychotronic' weapon based on alien ET technology.".

This was supposedly at least part of the inspiration that inspired Bigelow to make this statement:



Covered in the link you provided we are told George Knapp and Col. John B. Alexander (a man who never seems far removed from this stuff) deny the story is true. Also Bigelow's comment about people being hurt and killed is based on the Colares UFO case in Brazil. Not murders by ET on Skinwalker Ranch.

The alien gun battle seems like a folk tale with a sci-fi makeover for modern times. Did it really originate with the mysterious French woman Antoine Gigal? Or has someone else injected it into the already confused and poisoned narrative. Many of us have heard the stories coming out of Skinwalker Ranch. Yet I've seen nothing to convince me that there's anything special about it. So it seems that when you dissect it all that there isn't much to run with.

But something has convinced a billionaire from Vegas for decades. I just don't know how we access his 'quality research' because he doesn't make much of it public.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No that response was fine Kev. Because we seem to be dealing with something. But it's more than just something going on in people's heads (quantum insanity! ). There are physical effects at times too.

You reminded me again of the Bob Taylor UFO up in Scotland. He saw a weird object and was attacked and rendered unconscious by two smaller objects that looked like WWII sea mines to him. It is still the only UFO case in the UK that was subject to a criminal investigation. There are, of course, prosaic 'theories' to what happened. But none of them quite fit the story.



As for the Phantasm Aliens.



Look familiar?

a reply to: ctj83

You make some interesting points.

All I can say about the pentacle memorandum is that I've spoken extensively
with JV about it, and i certainly was 100% convinced that the government
was "cooking the books". At least that's how I took the conversation. After
all these years, there was still a lot of unhappiness about how the Government
was handling the data in a scandalous manner. I'm talking blatant suppression
and misrepresentation, not rounding errors in quantitative analysis.

Of course looking back, there can be no doubt that this is correct. I take
JV as a national hero.

Your point about how one might view that HE is "cooking the books" in
a manner of speaking..

Well that's called contradictory results in science.. and in world of ideas,
some win and some lose.

The man is incredibly honest.... if the man could prove all his theories
by telling one white lie..I don't think that he would. He's that honest.

Of course he's capable of being wrong. And sometimes when a person
is wrong (or right.. but in this case wrong) it can have a powerful
effect on the flow of history.

On the "control loop".

You do realize that every thought that we all have... feeds back into
the control loop and affects everything, right?

That by having this conversation.. WE are feeding back into the
control system?

People really blow that whole thing out of context.

At the highest level so to speak.. our present actions feed into
the flow of the arc of time.. which (according to some theory
anyway) rather loops back from the future to the past, affecting
it too.

It's all Bohmian interconnected.

I'd certainly like to know what JV had in mind for his experiment
as well. I'd say that it occurred in the past and produced some
results, that were informative, but not world-shaking.

Everyone wants to magnify this stuff to incredible heights..
and a lot of this stuff is "modest".

I guess that in some ways, I suspect that "people like us"
ARE the experiment.. so you can't inform the test subjects
or it screws up the data.

I don't think that JV is "experimenting on us".. I think that
his test was rather innocuous.

But I suspect that others are using the concept to
"experiment on us".

My one cent and change.

-Kev

a reply to: mirageman

Here's the thing that people aren't seeing/facing up to yet, and I quite understand..
it takes a "leap";

here's what I said to JV that may have started some of this mess:

Take some thoughts as expressed via quantum states..and throw in a higgs boson
like interaction and you get materialization of the insubstantial to the substantial.

But since it wouldn't be a normal process.. it would only be temporary.. thus
"here" then "not here" and stuff like "UFO or Marian "Angel hair"".

Now to get "real matter" you normally have to have symmetry breaking at
some level.. and presumably you get a huge cosmic bubble that collapses
into the original matter/energy of a Universe.. a related but different
process. Perhaps this will also work on a micro scale... hmmm now
that's an interesting thought.. "localized micro-bubble-universe
creation" to cause localized effects.. like being hungry for a ham
sandwitch.. so you create a mini-universe that evolves to give you one...
possible.. for actors on THAT scale.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sold that "the big boys in the void of space" can
do complex metals like the "gang" is going on about, purely as a "poof",
but I don't know.. that's why there needs to be research.

Did you catch my drift? this is rather arcane stuff.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

One more bit of response.

Quantum Insanity + Higgs Boson = Physical Effects.

That's what everyone else seems to have missed.

(playing very fast and loose with physics of course..
but it's a "thought experiment" so that's ok.)

As for the "visitor" from "Phantasm" it wasn't one
of the orbs.. it was one of the crunched down
little dwarvves that under the hood looked
somewhat like a deformed, very angry,
"roswell grey".

I think some other people have seen something
similar.. a somewhat taller, stockier critter
with a huge barrel chest... ribs sticking out..
very horrific, "meat eating" face.

Absolutely designed to inflict terror.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But you'll never get the sandwich on your end right? Cause the link between the 2 allready collapsed very shortly after creation? I only dabbled very little in these concepts/theories (some of which my mind may as well never understand) so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would almost dare to ask if they tried it out allready, but never mind ...

Seems rather pointles and a lot of effort to get 'a sandwich'. Better study the art of sandwich making and do it the proper way.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

it was one of the crunched down
little dwarvves that under the hood looked
somewhat like a deformed, very angry,
"roswell grey".

Just a note on those dwarfs. Ten of them, they form the ten sephiroth of the tree of husks.

Some of us hunt them.

If you wish to see for yourself, look behind the lie that is the devil, there there is a Seal in the form of a stary cross that seals the world of the dwarfs. The Seal stinks of Templar and the crow.

Back to my sabbatical.