Alabama Senate Results -- Moore vs Jones

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Sounds like people have forgotten that politicians are a bunch of liars regardless of what party they being to.

No. At least I don't think so.

There are lesser evils though.

Recount!! lol.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Sounds like people have forgotten that politicians are a bunch of liars regardless of what party they being to.

No. At least I don't think so.

There are lesser evils though.

Lesser evil still leaves you with evil. Not much of an upside there.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Such is life.

they want a recount... lol...
kind of figured that would be the result...

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: Swills
Down goes Moore!

Good riddance!

Jones isn't anything special but at least he's not a sexual predator. Shame on all people who voted for Moore!

So I guess we should lynch people who are accused before we even investigate right?

you think he's guilty (with 0 proof just your political idealogy) therefore everyone's an idiot who doesn't agree with you?

Absolutely not!

However, if you had (and maybe you do for all I know) a 14 year old daughter, would you leave her alone in a room with Roy Moore? Based on what seems to be extremely credible accusations? I know I certainly wouldn't...irrespective of any forthcoming investigations.

I dont have a 14yo
I wouldnt leave my 14yo daughter in a room with a man i didnt know anyway..
If he was accused of murder, rape, drugs, I still wouldnt leave my daugther with him..

does that mean we should treat him like a criminal, when all we have are unsubstantiated accusations?

how about, if some women accused you of rape.. your employer put you on leave, your wife left you, your kids refused to talk to you, your friends abandoned you and the public assumed your a man therefore you are guilty...

would that be ok ?

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: Swills
Down goes Moore!

Good riddance!

Jones isn't anything special but at least he's not a sexual predator. Shame on all people who voted for Moore!

So I guess we should lynch people who are accused before we even investigate right?

you think he's guilty (with 0 proof just your political idealogy) therefore everyone's an idiot who doesn't agree with you?

Absolutely not!

However, if you had (and maybe you do for all I know) a 14 year old daughter, would you leave her alone in a room with Roy Moore? Based on what seems to be extremely credible accusations? I know I certainly wouldn't...irrespective of any forthcoming investigations.

I dont have a 14yo
I wouldnt leave my 14yo daughter in a room with a man i didnt know anyway..
If he was accused of murder, rape, drugs, I still wouldnt leave my daugther with him..

does that mean we should treat him like a criminal, when all we have are unsubstantiated accusations?

how about, if some women accused you of rape.. your employer put you on leave, your wife left you, your kids refused to talk to you, your friends abandoned you and the public assumed your a man therefore you are guilty...

would that be ok ?

Moore had more than just accusations leveled against him. There is circumstantial evidence... not enough to convit to be sure ... but enough to put the question in people's minds.

He even did a crappy job defending himself. In early interviews instead of saying "what are you Fing crazy? I don't even like the putang" he said suff like "hmm that doesn't sound like me" and "if I dated a 16 year old when I was 35 I'm sure i would have gotten her mother's permission, it's the proper thing to do and all"

See I could never be credibly accused of raping a 14 year old. Simply because no one could ever place me in a time and place where I could possibly rape a 14 year old. As an adult man I make sure of that. There is really no possible reason I should be, or want to be, alone with a 14 year old... or sign a 18 year olds year book ... or ask the mother of a 17 year old out on a date. .... why was Moore even in the position to have these accusations levelled against him?

a reply to: DanDanDat

Oh you could be credibly accused.

You may think you havent put yourself in a poistion, but you have.

You ever take a trip yourself?

Well guess what, 20 years ago someone is accusing you of hurting her. You were on that trip to wherever, and thats where she says it happened.

Of course you were alone that night, so no one to back up your story. And the fact you were in the city the accuser says you were is a sort of circumstantial evidence.

Now have fun proving your innocence.

a reply to: Grambler

In all cases, there has been more than a single allegation.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
how about, if some women accused you of rape.. your employer put you on leave, your wife left you, your kids refused to talk to you, your friends abandoned you and the public assumed your a man therefore you are guilty...

would that be ok ?

But that's a deflection...it's not even reasonably close to what's happening here, and beyond that, the burden of proving it is on her if she made the claim erroneously....I'm not married, and the friends that are close to my vest know everything about me, including what I am and am not capable of so they would back me to the end.

Would it be ok if she MADE the accusations, for certain....anyone is free to claim anything they want about me, but prove it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler

In all cases, there has been more than a single allegation.

But that doesnt prove much either.

There was a case in canada were women were found to have conspired to make up accusations about a man that almost ruined his life.

nationalpost.com...< br />
Then there was the ghomeshi trial where multiple women accused him, but he was found innocent.

So while mulitple accusers can lend credibility, it is not proof of wrong doing at all.

originally posted by: GramblerNow have fun proving your innocence.

All the crap that goes on here does not matter a single iota....in this country you don't have to prove innocence and no one is making that claim. You have to, still, prove guilt.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: DanDanDat

Oh you could be credibly accused.

You may think you havent put yourself in a poistion, but you have.

You ever take a trip yourself?

Well guess what, 20 years ago someone is accusing you of hurting her. You were on that trip to wherever, and thats where she says it happened.

Of course you were alone that night, so no one to back up your story. And the fact you were in the city the accuser says you were is a sort of circumstantial evidence.

Now have fun proving your innocence.

Sounds a lot like when those Podesta brothers went to Portugal.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: GramblerNow have fun proving your innocence.

All the crap that goes on here does not matter a single iota....in this country you don't have to prove innocence and no one is making that claim. You have to, still, prove guilt.

Then why were conyers and franken basically forced to resign?

a reply to: Grambler

Because Congress is separate from the judicial system, primarily. And can "litigate" things that the court cannot.

Pivot alert.
Do you think that the witch hunt in Congress had an effect on the Alabama election?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler

Because Congress is separate from the judicial system, primarily. And can "litigate" things that the court cannot.

Pivot alert.
Do you think that the witch hunt in Congress had an effect on the Alabama election?

To your first point, of course guilt in court is different than in the public sphere. But when the public is really to accept guil based merely on accusation, that is also troubling. Hence we see people like conyers and franken have to step down.

We see duke lacrosse players have their lives ruined, people at UVA, police officers in the tawana brawley situation, and so on. The accusation was enough for people to declare the accused guilty, and lives were ruined. In those cases, the people were innocent.

If we dont reign this in, then elections, and many other things will be merely decided on who has the most accusres. This is not a good path to follow.


As far as if the Franken and conyers pivot helped; I dont think so. I have no proof, but I bet the people who though moore was guilty were going to vote jones regardless of what the dems thought on Franken or conyers.

But I could be wrong.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: xuenchen

I predict Moore wins and then a massive push for a ballot recount and extreme lefty media screaming voter fraud. After Russia and harassment allegations it is really the next step....gotta tie Russia back into it though.... #Russiabamagate

This is really funny in hindsight.

a reply to: Grambler

To your first point, of course guilt in court is different than in the public sphere. But when the public is really to accept guil based merely on accusation, that is also troubling. Hence we see people like conyers and franken have to step down.

I recently authored a thread on the concept.

But the idea that our leaders should be held to a higher standard is not new. Nor is it new that even an appearance of impropriety has been dealt with harshly, if unequally. Such is politics. I guess.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler

To your first point, of course guilt in court is different than in the public sphere. But when the public is really to accept guil based merely on accusation, that is also troubling. Hence we see people like conyers and franken have to step down.

I recently authored a thread on the concept.

But the idea that our leaders should be held to a higher standard is not new. Nor is it new that even an appearance of impropriety has been dealt with harshly, if unequally. Such is politics. I guess.

yes but it is still dangerous.

And not to mention selective.

For example, dems had no problem calling for franken and conyers to step down because they will be replaced by democrats.

But they will not call for accused pedophile menedez to step down because a republican governor Christie would get to appoint a new senator.

Is that a fun coincidence?

And I have no doubt the republicans would do the same.

The point is, as long as the ublci van declare guilt based on accusation, it is just another tool that can be used for political benefit, and may be used to keep any meaningful change from occurring in politics.

a reply to: Grambler

I agree. Process should be employed, and there is a process in Congress.

Both Franken and Conyers chose to waive the process. As have others.