A Terrifyingly Unchecked 7 Minute Launch Window.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

And what if the two bicker in the middle of a crisis and we get vaporized in the meantime?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Your entire premise is erroneous. The POTUS is the sole authority to order a launch (authority goes down the chain if the POTUS is incapacitated), but the actual launch command requires two authorizations... one from the POTUS and confirmation from the Secretary of Defense. This is then relayed to the Joint Chiefs who issue the launch order to the USSC. In addition to these levels of assurance, your comment regarding it going to a staff sergeant is completely inaccurate... the duty falls on an officer grade, and a sergeant is an enlisted man, NOT an officer.

While no one in the chain can directly refuse the launch order, including the Sec. of Defense, they can contact either the VP, Congress, or the overall cabinet and a decision to remove the POTUS from office for cause can be made on the fly, effectively canceling the order.

a reply to: ketsuko

We are vaporized anyway.. my personal opinion is that we should not launch even if launched upon..

A global exchange likely ends the species and that is the worst case..

We are not launching nukes to end their nuclear capabilities..we are launching to take them with us.

So obviously even if it is an adversary nation, it is better for us not to launch and humanity survive.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

No it does not there is an radio lab interview with a secretary of defense saying he is not involved.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: 123143

The people at the bottom don't have the intelligence (not smarts, facts) enough to know one way or the other weather they should launch.

They are just the missle guy. Not the international relations guy..

If the call went to some 4 star general who personally knows the president and the adversary. He could realize the president had snapped, we were on good terms with those people.

But the president calls some lutenient or master Sargent who has never even met the president. To stop from personal feelings stopping a "needed launch".

The president says jump by design the military says how high.

Yes, and there is a reason for that. I realize it's a MAD situation, but the idea is to respond as fast as possible.

It's how this insane game is played.

a reply to: Irishhaf

The scenerio here is if the presudent just snaps grabs the phone and orders a launch.

There is no check on that happening.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: burdman30ott6

No it does not there is an radio lab interview with a secretary of defense saying he is not involved.

William Perry, the secretary of defense in question, was in the position under Clinton. He's also the only person who seems concerned by this... or at least the only person with any claim to being worth listening to. He can say whatever he wishes, the LAW disagrees with him. His position that "nothing can stop the POTUS' order" isn't accurate according to the law.

That is the logic behind it..

I don't agree.. if atleast one side doesn't launch civilization likely survives. If both launch it probably doesn't. a reply to: ketsuko

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I think you would have to acknowledge he doess actually know the process.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Even if trump snaps picks up the phone and starts screaming to launch in 7 mins, when there has not been any indication of imminent hostilities there will be people verifying through official channels and unofficial.

at best 1 arms of the nuclear triad goes up, even then I strongly suspect there will not be a launch because of the lack of build up to hostilities.

Yea the guy in the silo may not be an international relations guy, but you know what probably has happened? Wing days, mandatory fun, or intramural sports on base, you meet people from other career fields and you talk... IE scuttle butt. I guarantee that people without proper clearances have been read in on situations outside their career fields and pay grade.

It is something officers and enlisted are told to do, network through out the base.

Even during the peak of cold war hysteria the plan was never to get every nuke out in the event of the balloon going up with the Soviets. Some stuff would be down for maintenance others would just be caught unprepared, and still others would have crew that would decide not to nuke someone.

Lastly... the guy with the codes, you think they will just mindlessly hand over the codes, these are smart people and if the secret service is not trying to rush the president into a secure facility they will no something is up and push it up the chain.

One more lastly, the secret service; yes their job is to protect the president but if he gets a nuke launched its kind of hard to keep him alive. You think they wont immediately notify the VP or Sec Def at least, these are highly intelligent people well trained but they also need to be able to think for themselves to make certain they can do their job. That also want to go home and see their families.

Give some credit to the men and women that would have to suspend their ability to think to slavishly follow the command.

Complete B.S. There's a whole series of processes that have to occur. Says the Nuclear and Presidential Security guy...

a reply to: SecretsoftheBlueApples

No their is not . WhaTch the radio lab episode called "nukes" they interview a former secretary of defense and he lays out the process or lack there of.


It's free

a reply to: Irishhaf

I promise you , the process is specifically designed to cut out any decent of voices.

Watch the radio lab called nukes, and the dan Carlins common sense on nukes.





They step by step lay out the process and it is horrifying..

There is an especially scary part where nuxon was being interviewed about water gate and he says..

"Why are y'all so worried about this little burglary.. I could walk in the other room and 45 min later 60 million people are dead. "

a reply to: JoshuaCox

He cannot launch a thing with out the codes, period dot end of discussion.

I know a lot of people assume the military are all brain washed drones, but I promise you the guy or gal is not going to just hand the codes over cause the president said so.. if a launch was detected the sec def (or his/her second) would be there, Intel would have people there briefing on the fly as they hurried the president to mount weather or some other secure location. (this would also give the person carrying the codes the security of yes something really is happening)

Without all of that it should and would raise flags, you think the secret service is not watching for signs that the president is becoming unglued? I have no doubt monitoring their charges mental health is part of their job, since they are there all the time, they are the perfect people to watch and take note of changes in personality.

I honestly do not care about Nixon, we still had the draft in that time frame and we also still had the holdovers in the military that felt we should have nuked russia during the missile crisis.

A great deal has changed since then, Heck a great deal has changed since I joined in '97.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Xcathdra

I posted a link to the radio lab story where they interviewed an ex sec or defense. He is the one who said there was no one else in the chain of command.

you are basing your argument on a scenario that occurred in the 1970s on top of taking what a former secdef says out of context?

It is a 2man rule.. Yes only the President can decide if we use nukes but he alone cant order it. The secdef has to authenticate and the chair of the joint chiefs confirms and then issues the orders. A launch is not instantaneous either and we know this because Hillary Clinton decided to reveal classified information during a debate when she gave the delay time between decision, authentication and order to launch.

Exactly just how far are you guys going to go to push the bs mental issues with Trump? You guys lost - get over it.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Who says the code guy is a big wig who would think he had the authority to put the breaks on????

The code guy wasn't mentioned, to be fair, but why wouldn't they do the same thing as with the guy flipping the switch in a missle silo and make sure it isn't someone who will question the order??

I swear people are fighting this like it is a contentious political issue and it should not be..

I think the concept of MAD is erroneous.. wouldn't it be better for one side or the other not to launch and let humanity survive??

a reply to: Irishhaf

But with all those close calls, the president/leader didn't say to launch.

The false alarms led to some buearicrat who paused things till they could find out the scoop.

A president (or any leader with a similar set up) going rogue would be a completely different animal.

They decided they needed to launch in seven minutes if necessary..

That doesn't allow for meetings with 5 star generals.

So I'm assuming all the things you mentioned have been streamlined out of the process..

No it doesn't work that way at all.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
And we regularly pick 70+ year old people for the job of president!

Until 2016 the US had never elected a 70 year old as President.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

It is not a political issue, you are ignoring the reality to focus on the procedural.

As vet, and I am certain most vets here can attest that the written procedure hardly ever survives contact with reality.

The presidents health is also probably one of the most scrutinized and studied things on the planet, because he has the capability to end the world.

I am not a pysch guy, but I would feel comfortable saying in most cases you are not fine one day and snap and decide to end the world the next.

When problems occur I would wager that they slowly wrap the president in a bubble (so to speak) carefully controlling who they speak with and what they can do to make certain things like your suggesting do not happen.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Reguardless, it is insane to set it up that way.. all of these people are 70+ years old.. so did some one take away reagans nuclear football when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's???

Or did they cover it up and pretend like he didn't??


Also when you are literally playing for the survival of the human race, maybe " people are rarely ok one day then snap the next.."


Actually just as in typing that, is pretty sure people snapping is not all that uncommon. Hello people black out and wake up 4000 miles away.