Am I just too politically jaded?

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Tarzan, good to see you around.

I salute you as well.

I think one prevailing issue is that those in the center are either not the loudest - don't have the most media coverage - or both.

Would love to get some people that are loud and proud about individual liberty and freedom.

a reply to: bluesjr

Yeah, I think Trump is about the closest thing to an Independent we're going to get in the current political climate. I almost hate to even say that given how hard right he seems to be on several issues. I am not certain if that's just a ploy he's devising or if it's legitimate. Personally, I think it's way too early to form a very firm opinion of him, though partisans seem to have done that before he was even in office for a week. Smh.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I think that's a big part. I almost think Centrists or Independents are in desperate need of a fire brand. I hate using the term "fire brand" because of the connotations, but I honestly think that's what's needed.

a reply to: SpeakerofTruth

Sometimes I feel like centrist in politics is closer to the Buddhism of religion.

I don't fight for our cause, because our cause is to live and let live, essentially.

I don't have a religion or belief system causing me to be radical or extreme or hardly even motivated to change others.

I just want to be left alone - and wish everyone would follow such a cause. Getting involved is almost against how I want things. I don't want to push some agenda or anything like that...

So where do I go?

a reply to: deadlyhope

Well, deadly, here's the deal; I understand where you're coming from, but in this world you have to stand for something, even if that something is just getting everyone to work for the common good. Honestly, I can't think of a more important thing to stand for. As where you should go, I'd say you're in a good spot now.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Tarzan, good to see you around.

I salute you as well.

I think one prevailing issue is that those in the center are either not the loudest - don't have the most media coverage - or both.

Would love to get some people that are loud and proud about individual liberty and freedom.

In my most humble opinion, if we can't operate from within the government, then we try our hand at art or science.

I'm a John Adams type thinker, but given the soul and the body of a different kind of individual.

When it's time for war, I war. When time for love, I love. But this is the mind of an artist and not necessarily the politician.

Even John Adams had a hard time paying reverence to any King. But to have had any part to play in the course of serving the country, even if through rhetoric, considered most noble.

And even Jefferson stepped up to the fight. He was a basic anarchist that became president and quelled Hamilton's and many others' passion for dominance.

But that firebrand died with Jefferson and has only been realized by few Presidents, who, while in office, discovered that the spirit of Hamilton was all too prevalent.

While everyone likes the idea of being "neutral", in today's society it actually no longer exists. Most people today who say they don't like "either side" still lean in one direction or the other. This is evident here on ATS time and time again.

Take me for example. 4 years ago, I was considered a true "independent" who subscribed mostly to the libertarian ideals of Dr. Ron Paul. I absolutely loathed the establishment on both sides, but at the time, the republicans were touting the establishment line the most. They hurt my candidate the most. The media was a very big part of it. They ignored the REAL issues and did not allow for a libertarian voice to be heard.

Fast forward to 2016. That has all changed. People and their positions have changed drastically. Many so-called libertarians in 2012 are now hardcore socialist leftist SJW's, some are very extreme ones. They went from "independent" to far leftists and in some cases anarchists who still claim to be libertarians somehow. It's pretty maddening. It's definitely social engineering and brainwashing at the very LEAST.

The left went SO far left, that even tho my ideals have barely changed, I am now what 4 years ago would be considered "right". The way I see it is, there is an agenda being pushed. The most "socially acceptable side" is the left side, so even the right is going left. It's all on purpose. The grand plan if you will.

The truth is, now days everyone leans in one way other another, but no-one is anywhere near what "right" used to be. That's not all that terrible in terms of extremes, but the consequences of that will end up being a society forced into globalist conformity.

I often see members on ATS claiming to be independent, but based on their posts, it's easy to see which side they actually lean toward. Some of these members have shifted so drastically that they no longer agree on even basic independent ideals. They may have been at one point in time "independent", but things have shifted drastically. Even the middle has been swallowed whole.

Just my 2 cents.

Pay it forward

Everyone wants their turn to screw over "those guys".

That is all political parties are for.....to give you a "those guys" to work against.

From its very base its flawed. You don't have anyone defined as "those guys you work with and not against". Its all adversarial, leaving no option to unite.

like you i think most americans are centrist moderates and the liberals and conservatives are just vocal minorities that drag us all into their little power struggle.
i think what we need are term limits for congress and removal of the electoral college to break their hold and let america be what it really is, this left/right seesaw is corrupting our nation and endangering our national security.

i'm all for equality and all but we have laws for that and restricting a majority over a minority the way we are has a limit, racism isn't why white people are getting angry and hostile in recent years towards immigrants and minorities, this is happening because they feel suppressed by the left and right bull crap they are forced to endure because corrupt politicians stay in power for decades without fear of losing control, not only that but this political minority is using racism and religion as an excuse to label the majority to force them to vote left or right and not question either side for fear of being jeered as racist, sexist, nazi or religious fanatic.

the left and right have gotten carried away and need deposed by any means necessary or they will destroy our country with their petty power struggle, i've come to realize that humans can't be trusted without limitations and reasoned guidance.
democracy is eroding humanity and reverting us back into over-emotional uncontrolled beasts driven by lust, greed, drugs and "love(what little they think they know about it)".

restore the republic proper or bring the empire to america since democracy is clearly not working and it's just dragging us down into the abyss of corruption and depravity.
i mean sure we are "free" but what else do we have? is freedom really best for humanity? are we really happy as things are? are we even free in the first place?

a reply to: Wookiep

i think you're wrong and centrist moderates are the majority and the left/right are exploiting the social pack mindset humans possess to force sides in fear of being isolated due to the devious trickery and manipulative words of the power hungry greedy liberals and conservatives.

a reply to: namehere

Again, the notion of what you are saying is all good and nice, but just in your above post you have taken a stance. That stance would ONCE be considered "centrist moderate".

This part in particular -

i'm all for equality and all but we have laws for that and restricting a majority over a minority the way we are has a limit, racism isn't why white people are getting angry and hostile in recent years towards immigrants and minorities, this is happening because they feel suppressed by the left and right bull crap they are forced to endure because corrupt politicians stay in power for decades without fear of losing control, not only that but this political minority is using racism and religion as an excuse to label the majority to force them to vote left or right and not question either side for fear of being jeered as racist, sexist, nazi or religious fanatic.

Sounds reasonable. Sounds like common sense, but guess what? That stance is considered to be a "right-wing" stance now. Have you been watching the news? (most news is leftwing now as well. So is Hollywood, schools, universities, late night shows etc) It doesn't much matter if an individual doesn't THINK that's a right wing stance or not. The narrative now is if you don't consider the above racist, sexist, nazi or religiously fanatical, you are NOT a proper citizen of society because you do not conform to the globalist agenda. Globalism = leftist in today's world.

I believe your post illustrated my point beautifully.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Pay it forward

Everyone wants their turn to screw over "those guys".

That is all political parties are for.....to give you a "those guys" to work against.

From its very base its flawed. You don't have anyone defined as "those guys you work with and not against". Its all adversarial, leaving no option to unite.

Another John Adams. Very distrustful of "parties" which divide.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
I ask this from the perspective of noticing something about myself. Before I begin, I have to say that I am a "radical" Centrist or Independent. It doesn't seem to matter if it's a post made by a Republican or Democrat, red flags tend to raise for me.

From my perspective, both sides of the political spectrum have been complicit in what I perceive as a steady decline of the country. I listen to Republicans and Democrats argue and essentially demand everything be one hundred percent the way they want it. I don't see anything working one hundred percent of the way either side want it.

What bothers me is that those of us who have dispelled the notion that either side adequately represents them any longer are for all tenses and purposes either ignored or receive snarky comments from the other two. Which to me is the real kicker, especially when one considers the fact that 45% of the population no longer feels represented by the two major political parties. So that leaves about 27% Republican and 27% Democrat.

Now, with all of this being said, I have a tendency of disregarding most of what either side says. To me, it's a small majority dictating to a group that's larger than either of the other two sides by themselves what should happen.

So, I have to ask, am I just jaded towards the whole system and how it functions? I tend to think that may very well be the case. I have a severe distrust of anything that rings of partisanship. I tend to think the disenfranchised are completely justified in the way they feel. I find party liners to be people who just spew partisan tripe. There seems to be no reasoning with either side to me, which leaves only one other option.

I don't know, am I just jaded politically?

If "snarky" is what you find most offensive then it is working. Nothing serves Republican interests more than division. You say you are a "radical centrist or independent". There is no such thing. Either you stand for an issue or you do not.

And I disagree with your assessment the Democrats do not compromise. The Democrats wanted single payer healthcare. The compromise was ACA. For 30 years now the Republicans have destroyed public policy through compromise and the result is always failure which is always blamed on the Democrats.

We haven't had real liberals in charge for over 30 years. Hillary is not a liberal. Hillary is a Nixon Republican. She wrote in her book she was a Goldwater Republican in college. Bernie Sanders was the real liberal. And he wasn't allowed to be the candidate for the Democrat party. The primaries were clearly purchased. The polls prior to the primary did not match the primary results. That's really not possible unless the election is stolen.

But it doesn't matter since all the liberals have now been vanquished from government. Republicans are now in charge of everything. So they are now responsible for everything. And they don't want anything to change.

I think you do not understand politics very well. People who pay the lobbyists are very happy with the way things are right now. They do not want any change. So there are two sides of politics. People who want change and people who do not want change. If you are in the camp that wants change there are two types. Some people want change that creates more fairness. Some people want change the creates more unfairness, monopolies, and cartels.

The problems with this country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. The people paying the lobbyists are the real citizens of this country. You and I and the blokes posting here have no representation. Money talks, everything posted here BS.

Political rancor or being snarky is meaningless. For 30 years now NOTHING has really changed. Every year the rich get richer. And middle class wages are driven deeper and deeper into poverty wages. Wealth inequality is at all time highs. I see no reason to expect it to change anytime soon. So keep being independent. The ruling elite love you.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
I ask this from the perspective of noticing something about myself. Before I begin, I have to say that I am a "radical" Centrist or Independent. It doesn't seem to matter if it's a post made by a Republican or Democrat, red flags tend to raise for me.

From my perspective, both sides of the political spectrum have been complicit in what I perceive as a steady decline of the country. I listen to Republicans and Democrats argue and essentially demand everything be one hundred percent the way they want it. I don't see anything working one hundred percent of the way either side want it.

What bothers me is that those of us who have dispelled the notion that either side adequately represents them any longer are for all tenses and purposes either ignored or receive snarky comments from the other two. Which to me is the real kicker, especially when one considers the fact that 45% of the population no longer feels represented by the two major political parties. So that leaves about 27% Republican and 27% Democrat.

Now, with all of this being said, I have a tendency of disregarding most of what either side says. To me, it's a small majority dictating to a group that's larger than either of the other two sides by themselves what should happen.

So, I have to ask, am I just jaded towards the whole system and how it functions? I tend to think that may very well be the case. I have a severe distrust of anything that rings of partisanship. I tend to think the disenfranchised are completely justified in the way they feel. I find party liners to be people who just spew partisan tripe. There seems to be no reasoning with either side to me, which leaves only one other option.

I don't know, am I just jaded politically?

If "snarky" is what you find most offensive then it is working. Nothing serves Republican interests more than division. You say you are a "radical centrist or independent". There is no such thing. Either you stand for an issue or you do not.

Interesting. What I find most interesting in this country is that people don't know their stance on issues, but are sure of their party.

But those who don't want to belong to a party may very well have made up their own minds on each individual issue.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: namehere

Again, the notion of what you are saying is all good and nice, but just in your above post you have taken a stance. That stance would ONCE be considered "centrist moderate".

This part in particular -

i'm all for equality and all but we have laws for that and restricting a majority over a minority the way we are has a limit, racism isn't why white people are getting angry and hostile in recent years towards immigrants and minorities, this is happening because they feel suppressed by the left and right bull crap they are forced to endure because corrupt politicians stay in power for decades without fear of losing control, not only that but this political minority is using racism and religion as an excuse to label the majority to force them to vote left or right and not question either side for fear of being jeered as racist, sexist, nazi or religious fanatic.

Sounds reasonable. Sounds like common sense, but guess what? That stance is considered to be a "right-wing" stance now. Have you been watching the news? (most news is leftwing now as well. So is Hollywood, schools, universities, late night shows etc) It doesn't much matter if an individual doesn't THINK that's a right wing stance or not. The narrative now is if you don't consider the above racist, sexist, nazi or religiously fanatical, you are NOT a proper citizen of society because you do not conform to the globalist agenda. Globalism = leftist in today's world.

I believe your post illustrated my point beautifully.

I have to agree with you somewhat here. As someone who is traditionally more central, I have to now refer to myself as conservative leaning. But of course, if we are to measure geometrically, I'm still dead center on the authoritarian/anarchist issue. Conservative and liberal are technically fiscal labels. That might be another part of the confusion in this country - 1 dimensional thinking. It would become much more improved by even 2 dimensional thinking.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Bwaaaaaahahahaha... More partisan tripe. Gotta "love" it. You people, both rightists and leftists, demand that everyone follows your ideas 100% when rationality would dictate that 100% either sides way wouldn't ever in a thousand years come close to working. But you obviously wouldn't know anything about that.

You people foam at the mouth and sputter your tripe, while holding anyone who doesn't buy into it with indignation. Keep on. See where it gets ya.

That's not to say I entirely disagree. You have a point. The system is bought out. We're the ones who suffer the consequences of decisions made by people who don't give a damn. You're certainly right in that regard.

I have said for years, get corporations and special interests out of our political system. Way ahead of you there.Here's the deal. Both Republicans AND Democrats talk a good game in regards to campaign reform, et cetera.. Where is it? They're all still taking their bribes from corporations and foreign interests. I really don't care if you think I "know" politics or not. Fact is, I have been discussing some of the issues you brought up for years. Not bad for someone who "doesn't know politics."

Just because I know politics doesn't mean I have to adhere to some "Rah-rah-rah" political party or parties that tell the American people one thing only to do another.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: dfnj2015

Bwaaaaaahahahaha... More partisan tripe. Gotta "love" it. You people, both rightists and leftists, demand that everyone follows your ideas 100% when rationality would dictate that 100% either sides way wouldn't ever in a thousand years come close to working. But you obviously wouldn't know anything about that.

Your apathy and cynicism serves your Republican masters well.

The problem with people like you is you have limited knowledge of history. What is happening in this country has happened before. Here is a speech from FDR during the 1936 Democratic convention. Just imagine what conditions could have possibly existed in this country that would allow this rhetoric to get elected:

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

Speech before the 1936 Democratic National Convention

For a lot of people this rhetoric rings true. Bernie Sanders was using this rhetoric. He had over 10,000 people show up to his stump speeches. It's just a matter of time before FDR type government returns to this country in spite of Trump's populism which is nothing more the bully fandom. Many people love it when Trump bullys the crap out of other people. People love bullies in this country.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The only problem being that too much central government via the Fed and IRS has proven to be antithetical to the cause.

A more powerful central government is that government which has more responsibility. The more the very people which you wish to rely upon have power, the less liberty you will ever have.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
a reply to: dfnj2015

The only problem being that too much central government via the Fed and IRS has proven to be antithetical to the cause.

A more powerful central government is that government which has more responsibility. The more the very people which you wish to rely upon have power, the less liberty you will ever have.

You right and wrong at the same time. Here's the problem. Some people think the government is the biggest problem to our pursuit of happiness. But there is another point of view. Many people believe corporations, not government, is the biggest problem for our country and preventing us from pursuing happiness.

The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass legislation creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. The people who pay the lobbyists have representation. Everyone else just has taxation without representation.

It really doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What DOES matter is the purchasing power of your take home pay. When the corporations run our government the workers have no way to defend themselves against corporate tyranny.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

Wealth inequality is at all time highs. Taxes can't be too bad because every year the richest people hold a greater percentage of the total wealth. Every year the median worker's wage is driven deeper and deeper into a poverty wage.

One thing is for sure you will never hear the so called "left wing media" ever talk about organizing workers strikes, wage fairness, or the cost of living being too high.

So I laugh at most of the posters here complaining and name calling liberals as the problem. The problem to what? What are liberals doing that is causing so much problems? Wealth inequality is at all time highs. What more do Republicans want? I think Republicans will not be happy until they literally have slave labor camps working for their corporations.

Yes, there may have been times in our history when government was so call "big" and kept the greedy CEOs in check. But 2017 is not that time. We are living during a time that is just the opposite. You can't have money concentrated in so few hands and still have the government currency have any value. Marx always said laissez faire capitalism is followed by communism. This is because unfettered greed would result in the government's currency collapsing. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will demand MORE government not less. See you in the bread lines comrades!

a reply to: dfnj2015

So Populism is the "problem"? We have government officials making secret deals and secret rulings while lying to the American public about all of it, but Populism is the "problem." Ok.

When it comes down to it, we've been had as commoners. This is historically accurate, since you're appealing to history. As far as an FDR style of government ever re-emerging, I wouldn't count on it.

I will say this, Bernie Sanders did get screwed. You can thank your DNC for that. If you don't think Sanders was a Populist, then you must not know what Populism is. But Populism is the "problem"? I am sure the establishment would concur.

After all, the establishment screwed Bernie and tried to screw Donald. I mean, they went so far as CANCELING primaries... But, Populism is obviously "bad."