How can you be for abortion but against the death penalty?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

In a society that demands, at gunpoint, the financial participation of both parents, its fairly obvious that we have a long way to go before finding that discussion settled.

While the body may be the womans, what is in the womb is a life that both parents share responsibility for. As a man, i find it detestable that I would have no input over what happens to my child until such point that money can be pulled from my forcibly to pay for said child.

As women have been told for Eons, you picked the wrong man.

Women have been blamed for unwanted pregnancies for Eons, and thrown out in the streets to fend for themselves.

Now women have Right of Choice. Its been a long time coming.

There are fathers out there, who are raising a child (children) from an unwanted pregnancy that the woman cared what the man wanted, carried the child to term, then gave it to the father.

So, men - - - pick the right woman. The responsibility is on you.

a reply to: Annee

The "two wrongs make it right" argument....


....not buying it.

a reply to: Indigo5

in this thread: devils advocate.

not a fan of abortion, personally. But so long as when you do what you want with you and yours, you are leaving me and mine alone....i won't really complain about much.

a reply to: Annee

YOU think the fetus is a parasite WE think it is a person.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

in this thread: devils advocate.

not a fan of abortion, personally. But so long as when you do what you want with you and yours, you are leaving me and mine alone....i won't really complain about much.

You and I are on the same page.

a reply to: Indigo5

I'm on that page, too. I keep good company.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Annee

YOU think the fetus is a parasite WE think it is a person.

At some point the nouns chosen in this debate become comical.

a reply to: neoholographic
Well, One has a brain that a normal person could recognize and the other has a pimple of neurons which most would think is a blob of snot.
Not that hard to distinguish.

Now is one worthy of being preserved over the other? One I may choose because I live with it (I didn't say I respect murders.) and the other only lives with it's host.
I don't tell you who you can invite to live with you.
I can say that anti-social behavior does not HAVE to be allowed.

Hope this helps.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

The "two wrongs make it right" argument....


....not buying it.

Not really, but that's the way it is. That's real life.

Women now have the power over their body and choices.

Something they did not have in the past when they were blamed both for pregnancy and not getting pregnant.

Today - - man picks the right woman, she will care how he feels about an unwanted pregnancy. Might even have the baby for him.

Pick wisely.

We don't know that death is an actual punishment, other than the fear of it. Death may be a sweet release. Why reward someone like John Wayne Gacy with sweet release? I'd prefer they suffer just as they made their victims suffer...but since we can't do that, being stuck in 4 walls with no chance of freedom is better.

I hope you don't eat eggs if you're against abortion...but oh wait. That's totally different. Why is it ok to literally torture "food" animals before they die? Why is that ok?

a reply to: Indigo5

Don't look at ME SHE said it...

a reply to: schuyler

And by so doing you effectively entered into a lease agreement for nine months. As a a landlord you are never allowed to simply kick out the renter, and you're definitely not allowed to kill him.

First of all, consensual sex is not an implicit contract for parenthood.

Secondly, if a woman is taking birth control, that is effectively a disqualifies any "lessee" to tenant rights.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Well, since everyone has a right to life (and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), I say that the child's right supersedes the mother's when the mother chooses to have sex and that act results in a pregnancy.

Everyone doesn't not have a right to life. According to the US Constitution, one must be born in order to obtain civil rights.

a reply to: neoholographic

As a rule I stay out of abortion threads, but I'll respond on this one (and then probably duck out of the thread).

I'm pro abortion (and yes, actual pro abortion, not just pro choice) and against the death penalty.

My reasoning is simple.

The death penalty costs more than life in prison, and we can/have gotten it wrong with wrongful imprisonment. Given that stories have quietly started coming out that reveal forensics to be little more than voodoo, and that courts may very well have quotas on convictions I just can't justify death without being 100% sure, and these facts leave me with a reasonable doubt in my mind.

On the other hand, still developing babies aren't sentient beings. We don't worry about murder when we pick a weed from a garden because it's not sentient and it's doing harm. If the parents to be decide having a child would be harmful, what's the problem with removing a weed?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Indigo5

Don't look at ME SHE said it...

By definition

"an animal or plant that lives in or on another (the host) from which it obtains nourishment. The host does not benefit from the association and is often harmed by it" www.thefreedictionary.com...

Ever tried to Google "Science embryo, life begins"? You end up with a plethora of "Right to Life" sites. It's like finding an atheist needle among religion, emotions, belief, fear of upsetting the religious, etc.

I did find: "LEWIS WOLPERT is Professor of Biology as Applied to Medicine in the Department of Anatomy and Developmental Biology of University College, London. His research interests are in the mechanisms involved in the development of the embryo."

"What I'm concerned with is how you develop", he says. "I know that you all think about it perpetually that you come from one single cell of a fertilized egg. I don't want to get involved in religion but that is not a human being. I've spoken to these eggs many times and they make it quite clear ... they are not a human being. www.edge.org...

Sometimes I present my personal beliefs in these threads. Which is we are an energy consciousness that is eternal, physical experience is a choice. That the energy consciousness does not enter the physical until time of actual birth.

But, of course, I get blasted for that belief - - as mumbo, jumbo - - because its "not the norm".

My belief Wrong - - other beliefs are the correct ones. NOT!

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
YOU think the fetus is a parasite WE think it is a person.

Merriam Webster Dictionary

A parasite is an animal or plant that lives in or on another animal or plant
and gets nourishment and protection from it.

A fetus only exists with the nourishment and protection of the woman's
body?

See?

originally posted by: schuyler
And by so doing you effectively entered into a lease agreement for nine months. As a a landlord you are never allowed to simply kick out the renter, and you're definitely not allowed to kill him. But if you get an abortion, that's exactly what you do, kill the leasee, simply because you changed your mind and for your convenience.

Poor analogy a landlord can evict a squatter .... or for not receiving any

remuneration for the shelter the renter is occupying?

a reply to: eletheia

BUT since said organism is the result of the process of copulation between sentient BEINGS and indeed IS alive you are killing sentient prodigy.
We are arguing the POINT of sentience ,not any recognizable form of science.

Men often tire of family and kids quick.

It surprises you that women might feel the same way?