How can you be for abortion but against the death penalty?

a reply to: Annee

The problem lies within our judicial system and not so much the cost of actually killing someone though. All the costs are compounded from the appeals process.

a reply to: JAY1980

but, at least on the federal level, the only abortions that your tax money may be paying for is in cases if rape, or child sexual abuse, or if the women's health will be terribly affected by the pregnancy..
unless you are seeing some of the forms of birth control as being abortive.

so, why don't you go and start a thread about what is really bothering you... all that free healthcare that is given to those who abuse their bodies with big macs?

a reply to: Annee

That's the problem, though. The lower court systems seem to be underfunded and dripping with inconsistent standards. Missing evidence, tainted jury pools, procedures not being followed correctly, convictions because of shaky testimonies, DNA tests never being used, etc. In other words, the courts would have to be a standardized and mandated to use the same technologies and procedures during every single case in order to make it "fair". And that doesn't take into account the racial disparities in sentencings or any form of judicial corruption.

You're all dumb.

That's what I get out if this thread.

You actually sit and argue for one or the other, as if there's a frigging difference.

Abortion=Death Penalty

One is either for violence, or they are not. You don't get to claim you're nonviolent if you support either.

If someone lets say kills 13 Human Beings then they deserve it. If a person gets pregnant then that child should be born. I AM FOR THE DEATH PENALTY AND AGAINST ABORTION. there is a difference, Persons who commit horrific crimes deserve what they get and that is that. Unborn children have done nothing and should be born no matter what the problem is. I am a christian, I SUPPORT LIFE, I also support absolute punishment for those that commit horrific crimes. It is alright for them people to fight for them on death row but who fights for the people they killed, they deserve it. The law fights for them and I think it is only right. We have seen sick evil serial killer after serial killer and yet the tax payer pays for them, I believe in mercy to, mercy is a strong word and what I have seen the death penalty is mercy, I don't know what our God does to them tho and I'm sure it aint good.

a reply to: Saylesie17

As a christian why do you think the book states that a child under 1 month has no value?

Also if a miscarriage is caused, why is it that the husband decides the punishment yet is not allowed to kill the person who caused the miscarriage?

Or why abortion is acceptable in the bible if the woman cheats on her husband?

The bible is quite clear on these things.
As far as I can tell if the father is in agreement then abortion is acceptable according to the book.

a reply to: neoholographic

Abortion is a tough one. I think that early term abortion should remain legal, but late term should definitely be against the law and considered murder. I guess the debate is "when" it becomes sentient life. I am not a doctor.

This does not mean that I think it is good or moral. I think that if someone uses this method, it should be considered greatly, and is NOT something to be proud of. The super far left wants to act as if it is something to be proud of. I think abortion is terrible, and I would never personally go that route. I know several people that have gotten abortions and have absolutely regretted it later. I also think that it is NOT just woman's right. I think that the man should also have a say. If both people decide to have sex, than both people should be able to decide what happens with the life that is created. Look at this NASTY video. This is disgusting and makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.
youtu.be...

Now on the death penalty. I am personally against it because too many innocent people get unjustly punished in our "justice" system. One innocent person getting the chair is too many. It is not worth the risk. My adopted Dad spent 8 years in prison. One day we were watching Maury or some other garbage talk show. A guy was on TV talking about how he was exonerated after 16 years in prison due to DNA technology advancement.

It was my Dad's old cellmate. 100% innocent.

a reply to: neoholographic

It's quite simple: the liberals - me, lefties, socialists, anarchists, you know the type - are in favour of human dignity. We believe that killing people without their consent is undignified. Hence, we try to prevent it - we are against wars, against toting guns (concealed or not) and against the death penalty.

And we are NOT "in favour" of abortions. We are in favour of good sexual education and anti-conception, free if possible; preventing an abortion is always the best thing to do. But if an abortion is necessary - the mother decides - we are in favour of legal abortion; if it is illegal it will happen anyway, but not under careful medical control. In the past we had "angelmakers" in our country, whom used knitting needles to poke the unborn child to death, often inflicting pain and inflammations, in many cases kiling both the child and - sometimes after a period of intense suffering - the woman. Not very dignified.

Likewise most "lefties" support legal euthanasia: we are not in favour of it, what nonsense, but if unbearable suffering is all that is left, a person should have the right to end it in a merciful way. Before we had legal euthanasia in my country, terminally ill people would often suffer unbearable pains, or in despair would try to hang themselves, or suffocate themselves using a plastic bag. Not very dignified.

Simple: try to prevent undignified situations. And if you can't, choose the most dignified way out.

originally posted by: Winstonian

This does not mean that I think it is good or moral. I think that if someone uses this method, it should be considered greatly, and is NOT something to be proud of.

Whatever makes you think that anyone having an abortion has not given the subject

thorough and agonising consideration?

NOT something to be proud of??? I have never heard of anyone boasting of having

had an abortion ..... Have you?

And WHY should they feel shame?

I think abortion is terrible, and I would never personally go that route.

I think you should walk a mile in their shoes before passing judgement's ....

never say never!

I also think that it is NOT just woman's right. I think that the man should also have a say. If both people decide to have sex, than both people should be able to decide what happens with the life that is created.

Point being the deed is done, and its always the woman who left carrying the

can? many's the time the man is LONG GONE

the idea that men never have a say when it comes to aborting the unborn offspring they helped to create isn't a fact in reality. many of the women do listen to what the father says..even what he says carelessly. and will have an abortion mainly because either the father has told her outright that is what he wants, or more subtly...
of course I am talking about those couples who had developed a relationship before they produced the kid and not those one night, oh I have no idea who the father is, I was too drunk to know what I was doing events that really both the man and the women should have known better to get into to begin with!

I think that what some want is for men to have the final say in it.. I mean after all, if the two discuss it and come to the same decision there isn't any conflict. if there is a conflict and the women allows the man to have his way... then there isn't any conflict. and well, if you carelessly dropped your seed into a person without a close relationship, what can I say...why should that person believe that you will stick around and be a decent dad to him and allow her to be a decent mom as well?

but men should not, cannot, have the final say... neither can the gov't, regardless of the trimester, or the father's desires, if the women BELIEVES that the pregnancy will harm her health and well being... that is the end of any discussion. Beliefs are strong, they are constitutionally protected, you can't even force the person to fill out of form stating his belief!!! you most certainly shouldn't be able to force someone to risk their health, possibly life, if they belief a pregnancy will harm them!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: neoholographic

How can a person call themself a gardener, when they pull weeds and use herbicides?

DUDE! That was harsh...but accurate. I am pro-choice but allow me to say the following. Today's society basically has no concern or care for unborn human life and little concern for any life. We kill each other without thought or care so why would we treat a "weed"...an unwanted life any different? We are GREAT and killing those we can't see in front of our faces. That is the true sign of a coward in my opinion. For example...if the way abortion worked was the baby came out, alive and healthy and you had to strangle it yourself...abortion wouldn't happen.

Again...I'm pro-choice. I see no point in bringing a life into this world that is unwanted and unloved. But that doesn't mean that I think we don't suck. We...as a whole...not as in each person that chooses abortion...suck and suck bad. We only value life of cute things (bunnies vs bugs) and things we can see (the chicken in front of us vs the one wrapped in plastic).

When human life or any life is less important than a pair of sneakers...you KNOW we are an ignorant, self-absorbed species.

a reply to: eletheia

I did not say people should feel shame. If you think that people are not proud of abortions, then you are not paying enough attention:

Shout Your Abortion

Proud Not To Be Mom's On Mother's Day

People on the far left want to glorify abortion. This isn't some big secret. I get it, sometimes it might feel like the only choice. I took a close friend of mine to get an abortion when I was younger. I personally watched her spiral into depression before my eyes, even though myself and her best female friend were supportive of her decision. I was much more supportive of abortion in general when I was younger. Now that I am older, with more experience and wisdom, I think it should be taken very seriously. No matter how you look at it, it is still life.

Instead of glorifying abortion, and normalizing it as a simple medical procedure that is no big deal, we should be focusing prevention and adoption, with abortion being the last choice. There are plenty of people sitting in line waiting to adopt kids. People that would give up anything to be able to have their own children.

There really is no excuse for unwanted pregnancy in the modern world. The left constantly boasts how wonderful planned parenthood is, but then they only focus on abortions as opposed to free contraceptives.

Don't forget, the biggest abortion advocate in history was a racist eugenics promoting nazi lover. She loved watching minorities ending the lives of unborn babies.

a reply to: neoholographic

Yeah, I know what you mean. I am a liberal living in Idaho. The anti-abortionists just got new laws implemented against a woman and her doctor. Now they are trying to pass a law that same people can kill their children with curable diseases. No matter how you look at it, once you are through the birth process, life don't matter.

a reply to: Winstonian

Instead of glorifying abortion, and normalizing it as a simple medical procedure that is no big deal, we should be focusing prevention and adoption, with abortion being the last choice.

but it is a simple medical procedure, much like getting your tonsils removed.... only I still have my tonsils, since there was never any reason to have them removed. regardless of how much we focus on prevention, there will also be a justifiable need for abortion, both for medical reasons, but also financial and emotional reasons. which came first, the glorifying abortion (which I have really seen that much of), or the writing of so many stupid laws in an effort to make abortion more difficult for women to obtain, with absolutely no regard as to how justifiable the reason may be? maybe the gloryfying abortion is just some people's insane reaction to an equally insane action.

There are plenty of people sitting in line waiting to adopt kids. People that would give up anything to be able to have their own children.

and there's plenty of kids out there that would love to have a nice family to take them in... they just aren't the perfect little babies that the wannabe parents want!

There really is no excuse for unwanted pregnancy in the modern world. The left constantly boasts how wonderful planned parenthood is, but then they only focus on abortions as opposed to free contraceptives.

1. no birth control method is 100% effective...
2. the more effective the method is, it seems, the more expensive it becomes.
3. many of those more effective methods are seen as abortive to some of the pro-life groups, so much so, that they brought cases up to the supreme court to keep from having to fill out a simple form expressing their unwillingness to abide by the obamacare mandate they their insurance should have free birth control included in it... so their insurance could fund the coverage without any expense to them..

Don't forget, the biggest abortion advocate in history was a racist eugenics promoting nazi lover. She loved watching minorities ending the lives of unborn babies.

maybe I am wrong, but I kind of think you are speaking about Margaret Sanger here? all I can say is that you need to read up the actual history here and not just the right wing blogs. she opened a clinic in what was jewish neighborhood and was just passing information about the methods of birth control that were available in that time, which wasn't much and spreading such information out through the mail I believe. doing such things was considered immoral at the time, and was unlawful, so she was arrested for doing just what you are saying we should do now, focusing on prevention! and while the actual eugenicist were out secretly sterilizing minority women, she was just allowing those WHO CHOSE TO to take measure to control their own birth rates!

Since the United States assumed governance of Puerto Rico in 1898, population control had been a major effort. The United States, citing concerns that overpopulation of the island would lead to disastrous social and economic conditions, instituted public policies aimed at controlling the rapid growth of the population. The passage of Law 116 in 1937 signified the institutionalization of the population control program.

This program, designed by the Eugenics Board, was intended to “catalyze economic growth,” and respond to “depression-era unemployment.” Both U.S. government funds and contributions from private individuals supported the initiative.

Instead of providing Puerto Rican women with access to alternative forms of safe, legal and reversible contraception, U.S. policy promoted the use of permanent sterilization. The procedure was so common in Puerto Rico at the time that it was simply referred to as “la operacion.”
www.ourbodiesourselves.org...

ya see, the eugenics didn't want to provide a choice, if they did that, those who they didn't want to reproduce might chose to reproduce, and those they wanted to reproduce might chose not to!

U.S. women also are not strangers to forced sterilizations. As early as 1907, the United States had instituted public policy that gave the government the right “to sterilize unwilling and unwitting people.”

Laws, similar to Law 116, were passed in 30 states. These policies listed the insane, the “feeble-minded,” the “dependent,” and the “diseased” as incapable of regulating their own reproductive abilities, therefore justifying government-forced sterilizations. Legitimizing sterilization for certain groups led to further exploitation, as group divisions were made along race and class lines.

Some states, notably including North Carolina, set up Eugenics Boards in the early 20th century. These boards reviewed petitions from government and private agencies to impose sterilization on poor, unwed, and/or mentally disabled women, children and men. North Carolina alone sterilized over 7,600 individuals between the 1930 and 1970s.

www.ourbodiesourselves.org...

again, no choice.. but I have to say I have seen some of the more conservative crowd on these boards making similar suggestions now. so just what makes a eugenicist? one that provided women the option of controlling their own reproduction, or the ones who want to keep that decision in their own hands, and forcing their decision onto the masses?

Abortions are a positive experience for modern women who wish to demonstrate their strength and empowerment. Anyone opposing them is against women and wants to control their bodies.

There's nothing that says strength and empowerment like lots of wanton sex and then getting rid of the consequences via an abortion. Go modern women, keep proving how strong you are.

originally posted by: Talorc
Abortions are a positive experience for modern women who wish to demonstrate their strength and empowerment. Anyone opposing them is against women and wants to control their bodies.

There's nothing that says strength and empowerment like lots of wanton sex and then getting rid of the consequences via an abortion. Go modern women, keep proving how strong you are.

What a sad man you are

originally posted by: eletheia
What a sad man you are

"Why is it that most people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't wanna F*** in the first place"
George Carlin

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Talorc
Abortions are a positive experience for modern women who wish to demonstrate their strength and empowerment. Anyone opposing them is against women and wants to control their bodies.

There's nothing that says strength and empowerment like lots of wanton sex and then getting rid of the consequences via an abortion. Go modern women, keep proving how strong you are.

What a sad man you are

What's the matter with you? Are you against women's empowerment?

The average number of sexual partners for women in the US has increased drastically in the past 60 years. So has the rate of abortions.

More sexual freedom=more abortions=more empowerment. What's the problem here?

a reply to: Talorc

you do realize that when you say "sexual freedom" that part of that freedom was to say no???

meanwhile, throughout most of human history, it's been perfectly reasonable for men to have a wife, a few mistresses, and occassional visits to the nearby brothels. and there was abortionist in every town willing to take care of any pregnancies that might prove inconvenient to the men even if they were considered illegal.

originally posted by: Talorc
What's the matter with you? Are you against women's empowerment?

I'm a woman .... why would I be?

The average number of sexual partners for women in the US has increased drastically in the past 60 years. So has the rate of abortions.

SO? seems its something you disapprove of?

More sexual freedom=more abortions=more empowerment. What's the problem here?

No problem for me ... but your words drip of misogyny!