How can you be for abortion but against the death penalty?

originally posted by: FalseMove
Men often tire of family and kids quick.

It surprises you that women might feel the same way?

Many women are now opting for careers, no husband, no children.

China is one of those places. Which is a serious problem due to female infanticide.

In Kenya, women started their own village. Now there are at least 3 women only or women ruled villages.

You can't escape religion in this discussion so let's embrace it.
To take the christian viewpoint it's a simple matter of mathematics.

Let's look at the value of humans according to Leviticus.

0 - 1 month = 0 SS (sheckels of silver)
1 month - 5 years old = 3 SS for a girl, 5 SS for a boy
5 years old - 20 yrs old = 10 SS for a girl, 20 SS for a boy
20 yrs old - 60 yrs old = 30 SS for a woman, 50 SS for a man
60 years old and up = 10 SS for a woman, 15 SS for a man

In the states the death penalty killed 27 men (3 over 60) and 1 woman last year. 2015 deaths

That's 2,225 Sheckels of silver all up.

Before Roe V Wade there were up to 5,000 deaths annually due to unsafe abortions in the States.

That's at least 50,000 Sheckels of silver.

50,000 > 2,225

Comparing 50,000 Sheckels worth of women of variable character to 2,225 Sheckels worth of mainly men whose character have been judged isn't in the same ballpark.

I personally question whether saving 2,225 worth of scum is worthwhile but until the legal system is 100% accurate you are gonna kill good people amongst those, and that is something we should be uncomfortable with.

a reply to: Annee

Your gnostic faith will not be acceptable any more that Hostile Islam .
Both are in favor of killing in manners not acceptable to God.
Having BEEN to a war ,I say save any life you can.
I personally don't believe we have the right bible, someone changed it.
We say spark of first life it is it.
I'll go with that.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Annee

Your gnostic faith will not be acceptable any more that Hostile Islam .
Both are in favor of killing in manners not acceptable to God.
Having BEEN to a war ,I say save any life you can.
I personally don't believe we have the right bible, someone changed it.
We say spark of first life it is it.
I'll go with that.

Gnostic?

I'm atheist.

a reply to: neoholographic

There are plenty of liberals like myself who are against abortion but are pro-choice. I'm pro-choice because I don't trust govts controlling a woman's body & think it should be up to that specific woman (and the male, to an extent). I'm also against the death penalty in most cases. However, you also partially answered yourself in the last paragraph. There are indeed a lot of people who basically see a fetus as a lump of flesh. I disagree with this stance but whatever.

However, I'm just as baffled by "pro life" conservatives who are pro-death penalty and pro-war. Kids and innocent civilians die in wars too, yet the "pro life" crowd doesn't give a crap about them. Many of them are also usually anti-immigration, even though immigration can help poor kids have better lives in their new country. In fact, they're usually also the first ones to cut social programs and funding for public schools, even though those cuts hurt children.

So I've come to accept that many "pro-life" conservatives aren't "pro-life" at all; they're pro-birth. Funny how the contradictions seem to work on both sides, huh?

A liberal can be summed up in a few words. "SAVE A TREE, KILL A BABY".
If that isn't the epitome of someone who is out of touch with reality, then I don't know what is. They live their life as if it were a fantasy. Like we are all characters in a fiction novel. Except it is not fantasy or fiction. IT IS WHAT'S CALLED REALITY! They have no true concept of reality. When you confront them on a reality, they quickly change their subject, because they cannot defend their positions. They want to see all things through rose colored glasses. The problem is that the glasses are very murky instead. Listen, I am all for a Utopian society if were a true possibility, But people who think that Utopia could ever happen on this planet are absolutely ignorant to to the fact that human nature will never allow it. Their heart is in the right place, but their head is in the clouds. They crave the power to change things but power corrupts. Humanity as a whole is only truly concerned about themselves. Everyone, no matter how much they may protest or even believe, has an ulterior motive. That is to take care of themselves and their own first. If there is any left over they are willing to help. I have never in my life ever met a truly selfless person.

Personally I am pro-life. As for the death penalty I am on the fence. Because I firmly believe that it is better to let a hundred guilty go free than to execute an innocent person. If I were on a jury I would have to be absolutely 100 percent positive to convict to execute someone. If I had even the slightest bit of doubt, I would hang the jury.

I am no tree-hugger by any means. But I also do not believe in harming nature for no reason. I believe we should all respect mother Earth. For all of the people who think they are so self important, who think that they are really in control of this life, they might want to take a look at something called "The Pale Blue Dot". Maybe then they can understand their true insignificance when it comes to the grand picture. Before we do irreparable damage to our home, she will long before purge herself of us... The human race...

reply to: neoholographic

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
You can't escape religion in this discussion so let's embrace it.
To take the christian viewpoint it's a simple matter of mathematics.

Let's look at the value of humans according to Leviticus.

0 - 1 month = 0 SS (sheckels of silver)
1 month - 5 years old = 3 SS for a girl, 5 SS for a boy
5 years old - 20 yrs old = 10 SS for a girl, 20 SS for a boy
20 yrs old - 60 yrs old = 30 SS for a woman, 50 SS for a man
60 years old and up = 10 SS for a woman, 15 SS for a man

In the states the death penalty killed 27 men (3 over 60) and 1 woman last year. 2015 deaths

That's 2,225 Sheckels of silver all up.

Before Roe V Wade there were up to 5,000 deaths annually due to unsafe abortions in the States.

That's at least 50,000 Sheckels of silver.

50,000 > 2,225

Comparing 50,000 Sheckels worth of women of variable character to 2,225 Sheckels worth of mainly men whose character have been judged isn't in the same ballpark.
.

If you're going to compare the two how about being honest about it? 10 years of accidental deaths due to abortion in the 50s vs 1 year of executions last year?

Come on now, at least try.

how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

originally posted by: eNumbra
If you're going to compare the two how about being honest about it? 10 years of accidental deaths due to abortion in the 50s vs 1 year of executions last year?

Come on now, at least try.

I was being honest, that refers to 1962. Where did you get the 10yr part from?

It was hard to find the stats that I did get so if you can point me to more accurate ones we can try for a more accurate figure.
The information I used did come from a pro choice site so it could be biased.

The estimated number of deaths from illegal abortion services (e.g. 5,000) has been derived from the findings of several studies. The following is a summary of these studies: “Difficulty as it is to accumulate statistics in this area, a surprising similar ity has been noted in various studies independently made within the last thirty years. If general trend observed is accepted, without becoming sidetracked in disputes over exact numbers of methodology, we must consider the probability that more than one mi llion criminal abortions will have been performed in the United States in 1962, and more than five thousand women may have died as a direct result.” Zad Leavey & Jerome M. Krummer, Criminal Abortion: Human Hardship and Unyielding Laws

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I was being honest, that refers to 1962. Where did you get the 10yr part from?

It seems I misread the article, apologies, it's still early.

a reply to: neoholographic

Pro-choice != pro-abortion...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neoholographic

Pro-choice != pro-abortion...

I don't know anyone who is pro-abortion.

Pro-choice is not pro-abortion.

There are many anti-abortionist who still understand Rights For a Woman to Choose.

a reply to: Annee

It blows my mind how this is impossible for pro-life people to grasp.

originally posted by: eNumbra
It seems I misread the article, apologies, it's still early.

All good, so apart from displaying your literary skills did you have anything else to add?

originally posted by: neoholographic
I was reading about a guy who just burnt a woman's body and put tape over her mouth and she was about to get Married. He was a stalker that lived in her apartment. Now this monster will get 3 hots and a cot for the rest of his life. Prison today is a joke and they have access to all kinds of entertainment. I can see if this guy had to do hard labor all day like chop blocks or dig holes but liberals would complain about that.

On the flip side, an innocent baby who can't defend itself is snuffed out and liberals want abortion on demand and things like partial birth abortion. I don't know how you can show such compassion to a murderer who rapes and burns a woman body and such a lack of compassion to a baby whose going through the process of life.

I just never understood how you square the two. Liberals must really see a Fetus as a blob of nothing. I was watching a Democrat the other day almost in tears over the death penalty but these same Democrats want abortion on demand and even partial birth abortion. How can you plead for the life of rapist murderer to basically live a good life on the tax payers dime but there's zero compassion for an innocent baby going through the process of life?

You know, you could at least be honest about the issue for starters rather than address it from a perspective of bias. That would help. It may make you feel superior to try and blame Liberals for everything but the fact is about 40% of Republican Voters are for Abortion as well. Conservative Republicans, while being a lower percentage than Moderate/Liberal Republican, are in there as well. Overall, Democrats are still higher at about 80%, but to say it's the Liberals and not Conservatives who choose Abortion is false.

Plus anyone who talks about prison as "living the good life on the tax payers dime" is once again showing their heavy bias and lack of actual factual knowledge.

So maybe if you really want to know the truth about something, you should start with being honest about it yourself first and stop with the BS approach in addressing the issue.

I'm not here to debate my personal beliefs or opinions so if anyone wanted to bother, don't. However:

I'd like to know some reasoning behind that as well, as I am pro choice, AND pro death penalty. I don't think babies should have to be brought into this world that are either unwanted or whatever else, and I also don't think that monstrous and animalistic criminals should be permitted to continue sucking down oxygen and using resources in today's society.

So, commenting so that I can keep track of responses for my own understanding of others.

-Alee

a reply to: Annee

Minor point to the subject as decribed

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Annee

Minor point to the subject as described

I'm not wrong, you're wrong.

NO, you're wrong.

NO, you're wrong.

We are not going to agree on this subject, and that's fine.

a reply to: Annee

Enjoy YOUR body count...I won't.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: eNumbra
It seems I misread the article, apologies, it's still early.

All good, so apart from displaying your literary skills did you have anything else to add?

Regardless of what price you put on people lives, body autonomy and right to do with which is of over-riding importance in this issue; lest you wake up in a world where your kidney could save a life and you don't have a choice in donating.