Muslims - there are good ones AND bad ones - Deal with it!

We've had the whole "ISIS and Islamic extremism" scene on the news for a while now and naturally, the topic is sometimes brought up in my conversations with friends and family. To my annoyance, there seems to be a frustratingly large number of people who insist that these extremists "aren't true Muslims" and are just "using the religion as an excuse". I've never heard anything so silly in my life. They are clearly religiously motivated! Every time I have pointed this out, I have been met with something akin to disapproval or even contempt. At no point have I ever said that all Muslims are terrorists. To be quite honest, I am sick of people blowing my statements completely out of proportion. Allow me to sum up my argument:

1. There are Muslims who are kind, decent human beings.

2. There are also Muslims whose morals are questionable and whose motives are sickening.

CONCLUSION - as with any and every other social group in history, both the best and worst of humanity can be found in the Muslim faith.

If this still can't be seen as a reasonable argument, then I give up. I'm just sick of people being so namby-pamby about the whole situation.

a reply to: Tenebris

Completely agree. There's the really nice ones, not so nice ones, neutral ones, bad ones and the extremists.

To single out a whole culture or religion because of the extremists is rediculous.

It would be like hating all Christians because of "The Army of God", all Americans because of the mass murders, all the Finnish because of the skinheads, all the British because of the BNP and so on.

Also, water is wet.

Pointless thread.

From my point of view.

The problem is that when you remove the view that Islam is a peaceful religion you are left with having to deal with the "us vs them doctrines" (duality separation) in Islam and cannot live under the illusion that it is just a religion that always follow the golden rule like Taoism/Buddhism and Sikhism.

Same problem with Judaism and Christian faith especially Paul:s additions.

I love the Sufi poet Rumi that was from my point of view a being of peace vs the mess Muhammad made.

What Quran should I follow if I choose to be Muslim. Peaceful Medina or Genocidal Mecca?

All power to those who want to reform Islam in Medina/Sufi image.

This is an example of a verse following the golden rule.


The original 5:32 and 5:33 is a whitewash for Jewish genocide and is a golden rule deviation.

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

There are Muslim who follow the golden rule that I do think of as moral in spite of me thinking Muhammad was immoral. They are better and chose to create better fruits than the teachings Muhammad left behind while being in Mecca.

They are clearly religiously motivated!

The ones who go the distance and blow themselves up are, but those working behind the scenes sometimes have to face the choice of "joining" or death to themselves and their loved ones. So yeah, I guess the "extremists" we talk about in America do appear religiously motivated, but the group itself can't exist without outside funding and desperation in it's ranks. Most rational Muslims if given a choice would prefer to live in peace and stability.

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you're so right... and it takes a good one to tell you how really bad the bad ones are!

a reply to: Tenebris

Well Muslims are people, and there are good and bad people, so it stands to reason there are both good and bad Muslims.

Takes all sorts to make up the world.

Simple really.

Most people have a problem with the political ends of Islam. They simply fail to see there are two components: One religious and the other governance.

Focus on the governance part ... and you can kick every stinking one of them back to the Middle East where their system of government belongs.

a reply to: Tenebris

But Majority Militant farty Christians are in a mission to convince everyone, 1.6B Muslims are BAD! Their religion are BAD. So therefore they're terrorists!

F****n flat-earthers!

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: Tenebris

But Majority Militant farty Christians are in a mission to convince everyone, 1.6B Muslims are BAD! Their religion are BAD. So therefore they're terrorists!

F****n flat-earthers!

Yeah it's them hateful christians we should all hate, plagues of rabbits, they are all the true terrorists
Blow them up, back to the colosseum with them

a reply to: LittleByLittle
The problems arises from the interpretation of innocence. For me one seeking out a true meaning /religion is innocent, to many pure muslims this may not be seen as an innocent act if they were indoctrinated into an islam religion.

There are other grey areas of innocence that many in western civilisation don't see as debatable. Depicting a god you worship is an innocent act to me.

a reply to: Snarl

That view seems a little harsh, i mean what about Muslim people who have immigrated in to our respective nations and seamlessly integrated within our community's since the 1960s?

Seems to me these Muslim fundamentalist nutcases that feature so heavily in our news and other mass media propaganda have only really been a problem since around the 1990s when we started our invasion of the middle east under the guise of Gulf War 1 and 2 and our supposed search for WMDs that have yet to materialize.

Truth is we created ISIS and the rest of these crazy bastards by bombing there towns and cities in to oblivion and now we are having to deal with the fallout and next generation of terrorist.

End of the day through all Muslims are not terrorists nor do they support such actions.

"Deal with it!"

Oh we will.......

originally posted by: Snarl
Most people have a problem with the political ends of Islam. They simply fail to see there are two components: One religious and the other governance.

Focus on the governance part ... and you can kick every stinking one of them back to the Middle East where their system of government belongs.

I have a problem with the political ends of Christian faith and Zionism in the US.

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: Tenebris

But Majority Militant farty Christians are in a mission to convince everyone, 1.6B Muslims are BAD! Their religion are BAD. So therefore they're terrorists!

F****n flat-earthers!

If the majority of Muslims would stop wanting us dead maybe that would stop.

I have a problem with ANY AND ALL RELIGIONS they tend to get the innocent bystanders killed just for being innocent bystanders............A story for ya........Bear with me please. A Texan a Muslim & an American Indian we're having a conversation. The American Indian said "" Once we were many, now we are few".... The Muslim said." Once we were the few, now we are the many"" To which the Texan replied......"It's obvious we have never played Cowboys & Muslims aint it" There's good & bad in everything in life, good doctors, bad doctors. Good cops bad cops etc etc etc. That will never end as long as we are on this rock.

originally posted by: openyourmind1262
I have a problem with ANY AND ALL RELIGIONS they tend to get the innocent bystanders killed just for being innocent bystanders............A story for ya........Bear with me please. A Texan a Muslim & an American Indian we're having a conversation. The American Indian said "" Once we were many, now we are few".... The Muslim said." Once we were the few, now we are the many"" To which the Texan replied......"It's obvious we have never played Cowboys & Muslims aint it"

Sounds like a fun game.

a reply to: imsoconfused

"If the majority of Muslims would stop wanting us dead maybe that would stop."

But the majority of Muslims just want to get on with there lives and really wish you no ill will whatsoever.

Why not try testing the premise of you argument? Ask 10 everyday Muslims out on the street whether or not they wish you dead.

Whats the bet that 9 of them really dont give a crap?

originally posted by: openyourmind1262
I have a problem with ANY AND ALL RELIGIONS they tend to get the innocent bystanders killed just for being innocent bystanders............A story for ya........Bear with me please. A Texan a Muslim & an American Indian we're having a conversation. The American Indian said "" Once we were many, now we are few".... The Muslim said." Once we were the few, now we are the many"" To which the Texan replied......"It's obvious we have never played Cowboys & Muslims aint it" There's good & bad in everything in life, good doctors, bad doctors. Good cops bad cops etc etc etc. That will never end as long as we are on this rock.

According to what I read on ATS and GLP, all non-white non-protestant non anglo-saxon people are evil.

And even then the Brits and Irish and Aussies are still like really bad.


Only the white American Protestants are worthy of salvation.

originally posted by: imsoconfused
If the majority of Muslims would stop wanting us dead maybe that would stop.

Great username/post combo