Cop: first responders surrounded bathroom where Mateen holed up, but told to wait

Bit of a bottleneck having people go into a bathroom against a rampaging madman holed up with guns, am not totally surprised they held back.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

3 hours of containment in a hostage situation isn't uncommon at all. Their "collective crap" was together within a few minutes. The shooting wasn't ongoing throughout the three hours. Threats about explosives had been made.

You folks seem to forget little details when it's convenient to do so, and remember other little details when it's convenient to do so.

I dunno it seems like ...



This..

a reply to: Boadicea

As near as I can tell, the bathroom had one way in and one way out. We already have heard from victims inside the bathroom that he came in there shooting, and shot into the stall or stalls through the partition. So let me be real clear here: everybody is pissing and moaning at non-tactical officers for not running through a doorway into an area they can't see anything in, that contained more victims, and not getting into a shootout with the gunman in a room the size of what, an SUV? Sure, we can all pretend that everybody here would be cheering that decision and not raking them over the coals had they shot, much less killed, victims in the ensuing gunfight. Because ats is great about not looking at things with the benefit of hindsight.

The reason for the delay is that the shooting stopped at some point and the shooter said he had explosives. That's been corroborated by the 911 transcripts as well as victims inside. You don't cowboy up when somebody tells your negotiator that he's got bombs all over the place. In a tactical situation there's always a "go right now" plan. That's a plan that's come up with in short order and is a worst case scenario type of thing. Once that's set, if there's hostages they're the priority for every plan. Once law enforcement felt that he was going to start killing people again, that's when they made the decision to go in.

a reply to: Shamrock6

You get a bunch of people in a trap like that, esp if the shooter COULD have explosives, it's a no-win situation.

Never had to deal with that sort of thing. But for similar stuff, we'd have had someone talk pretties to the guy while the charlies rigged for dynamic entry pretty much like what happened. I personally would have gone for two accesses probably with detcord since you have no idea if people are against the wall, but I wasn't there. If there was space over the room we'd have checked that out, they didn't so I guess there wasn't.

(grin) we'd have knocked on the door just before the bang, too, to confuse the guy, but each cat his own rat.

Next news:

H otel CCTV 'captured' Orlando massacre gunman's hook-up with man who claims he met Omar Mateen for sex 20 times

At least there are cameras everywhere, except around mass shootings or terror attacks...

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
Next news:

H otel CCTV 'captured' Orlando massacre gunman's hook-up with man who claims he met Omar Mateen for sex 20 times

At least there are cameras everywhere, except around mass shootings or terror attacks...

Thank you so much for posting this!!!

Miguel said he has reported his entire story to the FBI, and is currently being interrogated by federal officers.

The FBI has apparently obtained footage from the hotel, both TMZ and Univision reported.

So the feds do know...

a reply to: Shamrock6

Thank you, Shamrock. I appreciate your answer.

I asked my hubby about it last night, and he basically told me what you did -- scolded me a little too! He's not LE -- but he watches enough action stuff on TV I figured he might have some idea of standard practices and thought processes. He pointed out many of the same things you did, including the small space and limited access and of course the hostages, and said LE really had no good choices, and no matter what they did (or didn't do) something could go wrong.

So it all makes sense to me.... I don't like it... but I don't think the LE on scene liked it any better. If I can't offer a better way, then I guess I have no room to criticize either! Just a big fustercluck.

a reply to: Bedlam

Thanks for adding to Shamrock's comment. I appreciate the additional insight

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

3 hours of containment in a hostage situation isn't uncommon at all. Their "collective crap" was together within a few minutes. The shooting wasn't ongoing throughout the three hours. Threats about explosives had been made.

You folks seem to forget little details when it's convenient to do so, and remember other little details when it's convenient to do so.

I realize that there is a transit time, a strategy period, set up for objectives and execution of those objectives. I guess I am just relating back to my days in the field, under fire, where 10 or 15 seconds of screwing around or indecisiveness could end up in a dirt nap for me or my buddies on my 6. The police and SWAT team seem more concerned with protecting their own asses rather than anyone else's.

When do innocent people become acceptable losses? Anytime the goverment or police are involved.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Interesting link.

But note that it s the Daily Mail, based on TMZ. TMZ names "Sources at the Ambassador Hotel".

Both TMZ and DailyMail have lower journalist standards, than the german "Bild".

I am not saying it s not true, but i ll wait for a better source and/or the real cctv footage.

And here's how it's done in Germany:

Germany shooting: Gunman 'shot dead by police' was in 'state of confusion'

According to their timeline, it was about an hour from the first call of an active shooter/hostage situation until the police stormed the place, after first throwing tear gas. It does not mention any negotiations. And apparently the only injuries to the hostages were from the tear gas.

I don't want to criticize the officers putting themselves in harm's way for us, and especially because they have to take their orders from higher-ups... but I do think we can do better. By any and all means, give our guys the best protective and defensive equipment possible; and then let them do their jobs and fight the good fight.