Masons here at ATS say the Mason belief has no religion?

originally posted by: SargonThrall
He posted an 8 minute video at 4:10, and you retorted at 4:12.

Do you think that is the first time some tool bag posted that video here?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
The collective bigotry that atheists (me, i guess) are recieving on this very thread is appalling, but to see this bigotry come from my fellow brothers is eye opening. At which point does your hypocrisy open your eyes?

Who is being bigoted to you? What are the bigoted statements?

originally posted by: dollukka

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Just to prove that I am not completely evil I took a quick photo of my Masonic Bible. I decided to put the J-Man in there to counteract all the demons living inside it:

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: DeathSlayer


I have not believed in Christian dogma since I was 8 or so, how am I religious?

Interesting so you do have a Christ on the Cross and you don´t believe in J-man. Yet the pose how you put these items together in one picture Intentional sarcasm ? Your picture sends a message intentional or not. Masonry do not believe in J-man and you have just prooved it.

I know, right?

The dude has Jesus UPSIDE-DOWN with his own avatar triumphantly towering above him. It's that hidden in plain sight crap.

The masons' supreme being is Satan, whether they call him Lucifer or Mah-hah-bone, or something else... and the lower level masons don't even know it.

originally posted by: Farlander
The dude has Jesus UPSIDE-DOWN...

I was thinking of putting in some pentagrams and 666's on post it notes. Too much?

The masons' supreme being is Satan...

And if you think that is the case maybe you can debunk this thread.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I was thinking of putting in some pentagrams and 666's on post it notes. Too much?

I noticed you cleaned the blood stains up ... good job ... leave no evidence ... lol

originally posted by: artistpoet
I noticed you cleaned the blood stains up ... good job ... leave no evidence ... lol

Cleanliness is Godliness.

I felt compelled to come to the defense of member AugustusMasonicus.

Yes, he is evil and is deeply into rituals that require the blood sacrifice of blondes who used to work for Fox News.

Yes, he is corrupt and offers the souls of innocent puppies to Dark Forces for personal gain.

Yes, he was Dick Cheney's hunting/shooting coach.

Yes, he was the one who suggested to Kayne West to insult Taylor Swift and he made Miley Sirus twerk on a dare.

BUT!

There's a soft, sensitive side to AuggustusMasonicus.

He aided Saddam Hussein by telling him to hide in a dirt hole.
He told OJ to plead innocent and he could continue his film career.
And he told his personal friend, Bruce Jenner, that he could get a better tee off at the golf course if he just became a woman.


So please, give this poor man a break!

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Cleanliness is Godliness

And a crow bar is next to networkdude ... so I have heard

a reply to: DBCowboy

So please, give this poor man a break!

Lol ... Gladly ... Which part of August should we break

a reply to: artistpoet

His balls.

I'm confused. Obviously I'm not a Mason because I'm a woman but I come from a long line of them and they put me in their women's organisations for wives and daughters.

To become a Mason the rule is you have to believe in monotheistic god. I guess technically it doesn't have to be the God of the goat herders but it has to be one.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I have it on good authority that you must have those in order to be a Mason. Best to leave those intact....

a reply to: Woodcarver

I really hate that you came out of this thinking anyone was putting you down or intentionally being aggressive. I know that wasn't my intention, and I don't think I saw it in any other posts. You hopefully can admit your situation is a bit odd considering the ancient landmarks that have made freemasonry what it is. I am much more curious than and version of angry. I hope you can stick around and continue the conversation.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Interesting point's and fun to speculate, I do believe they - some of them - have a religion or devotion to there secret belief and initiation ceremony's including the mock resurrection and that SOME of them really do worship Lucifer making excused in multiple threads to try to deflect from him being Satan.

But here is the crux, that is only SOME of them and only SOME lodges which often refer to one another as Branches of Masonry but the truth is that Masonic lodges span the globe today and are found in almost every country on the planet some openly and others secretly (just like a religion) but there variations are mind boggling.

I feel freedom of choice is paramount and I actually do not intend to attack the Mason's but to gleen the fact's that are common to all of them.

Some lodges have unusual handshakes like one I am familiar with were the pressure of the thumb on a specific point is used, others use sign's but it is only probably at the very basic level that they share matters and to be fair there are even Mason's whom do not call themselves Mason's but in practice are almost identical.

Lastly there have been BOTH good and bad lodges and of course good and bad members of those lodges or as the case may sometime's be chapters or chapter houses (I know it sound's like a college fraternity but chapter houses are arguably older than masonic lodges).

Many but not all Masonic sect's hold to a false belief and claim's of ancient origin, I personally do not believe the lodges are anything over a thousand years old and in there current state no older than four hundred years at the most, there name is the give away, what is a mason, think medievil guilds, that said some lodges may have claim to incorporation of older sect's which may have melded with them in time or simply taken the Masonic title to hide there truly more secretive origins and there is a feint possibility of Gnostic tradition having been incorporated as well as definite occultism at a later date probably between 1650 and 1780.

Some lodges are linked to Adam Weishaupt whom was the supposed father of the Illuminati.
en.wikipedia.org...
But proving a link between him and the masonic sect's is more than problematic with some sects almost revering the man while others deny the link.

It is probable that Adam Weishaupt's Illuminati were later hijacked much like the mason's have been by others for there own purposes and that he was actually non other than a member of the Rosicrution brotherhood whom along with several other members betrayed there rosicrution oath, or perhaps interpreted it differently.

Like the Lodges the modern incarnation of there chapter houses have some extreme differences and only a few are public while originaly this fraternity of enlightened soul's worked behind the scenes in secret.

This is one which is of more modern origin but has tried to recreate itself in the America's.

www.rosicrucian.org...

They became public at about the same time as a serious division arose among them when in the 17th or 18th century after a series of pamphlets circled in many european capitals it was claimed that a chapter house in one of the german country's had broken it's oath and merged with a merchant's lodge which was then using the name of Free Mason's since several of there member's were dual members of both the chapter and of the merchant's guild but of couse others would argue that many of the masonic secrets go back to the hansiatic league and there global trade and secret multi national medievil merchant's guild which may also have after taking the name of Free Mason's or Stone Carvers actually integrated there secrets into this proto lodge even before the damage caused to the rosicrutions century's later.

Here is some more work on the rosicrutions.
www.sacred-texts.com...

There are many today whom claim to be Rosicrutions but bear no link to them but some claim Francis Bacon was actually a member as were many members of the aristocracy much like the mason's of today, so it is more than concievable that despite some irreconcilable differences with the Rosicrution's actually having had a Gnostic and Alchemical Christian tradition that they merged at some point as has been claimed.

It all boils down to power and it's use for good and bad, like the lamae of gollem's they sought a word of power or to be more precise knowledge to control the world around them and this was envisoged in the alchemical tradition of the philosophers stone which contrary to the idea of turning lead into gold was actually about self enlightenment amd the ability to control the universe, in this they were litterally trying to play God and in truth while these men played there games of intrigue the real genius of there origin was lost and science took up there crusade renaming it the Grand Unified Field Theory (which has nothing to do with the semi masonic belief in Goatu being Lucifer whom if he fell was obviously not that enlightened? since someone more knowledgeable knocked him down).

This is were the Mason's and the Rosicrutions may have merged or split depending on your current understanding of that matter.
www.golden-dawn.com...

But as I say there are many different branches of the Rosicrutions today just as there are of the Mason's but it can be argued that they are two fingers on the same hand though they are often at odd's.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.goldenrosycross.org.uk...

Personally though I think they are both tied to the occult and as a christian I would suggest they are best left alone and to avoid becoming a member or swearing there oaths as this is an invitation to the same occult powers as well as if they are one of the Luciferian lodges a blasphemous path to damnation and I personally know a guy whom is himself a devout christian from spain whom has had his fair share of run in's with a local BAD lodge after rubbing up there grand master the wrong way over a land dispute, he won't disclose quite what he is but I suspect he is a Rosicrution and he did not deny it as he talks about how he left a member of that bad lodge whom had tried to work some black third eye kabbalism on him shaken and white faced after he deflected the curse back onto the caster with a word he carries in his mind like a shield, not a secret word but his faith in it is but now I am getting into strange territory best not talked about here, let's just say the master of the Luciferian lodges is weaker than that shield and it's meaning.

And once again I must stress I do not believe all Lodges are of that ilk with most simply being gentlemens club's but get up to the higher levels and it is twilight zone time just like the little Story I told you above, not my tale I must stress but his and I do believe him.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: Woodcarver
How can you say you're a Freemason, but not uphold the Ancient Landmarks?

Because archaic landmarks are archaic.

How can you justify bigotry with an archaic rule in a book? You should know a bad idea when you hear one.

a reply to: Kali74

You win.

Personally, I couldn't care less what they believe (other than out of sheer curiosity, as I do enjoy learning about other belief systems,) or whether they use Bibles, Qurans, excerpts from the Rigveda, their own oral & written traditions, cookbook recipes, or extraterrestrial sign language. What anyone else believes is not my concern.

I only care how they treat other people and conduct themselves. And as with every other group on Earth, I've met Masons who are extraordinarily kind and conscious, and others who are less so. No group, however much we like to imagine they are, is monolithic and in lockstep.

Masons have also done a great deal of good, though many will deny this.

I don't critique belief systems. I critique (or at least agree or disagree with) life actions and their impact on the rest of humanity.

Peace.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Woodcarver
The collective bigotry that atheists (me, i guess) are recieving on this very thread is appalling, but to see this bigotry come from my fellow brothers is eye opening. At which point does your hypocrisy open your eyes?

Who is being bigoted to you? What are the bigoted statements?

It's funny that you cannot see it for yourself.

Open minded or not, it is a violation of the Ancient Landmarks and in New Jersey you would be asked to demit, it has already happened.

Why would i be asked to demit?

No, I cannot and we have over 400 members. As I said, no one has said they were and if they did they obviously lied to get in. If they would have written 'no' on their petition would have been rejected by the membership committee and the committee would have recommended they not gain membership through initiation.

these are both your quotes.

Here is one from butcherguy calling me a liar. You also called me a liar twice.

Unless they changed something, your oath means nothing then.
They don't tolerate liars either.

i guess he is saying that my word is nothing if i don't believe in the bible? Don't you denegrate the bible as well? You call yourself a pntheist so how does a bible oath equate with your beliefs? Do you make oathes with your hand on the bible? Even though you don't give it the same pertenance as christians? If you do, doesn't that make you the liar? I am trying to open minds and move towards the future. I'm not trying to uphold archaic traditions.

I feel an atheist can't really learn the true secrets of Freemasonry.

this is my fav though. Implying that an atheist couldn't possibly understand the lessons and virtues espoused by masonry? It could not be any clearer and you missed the words coming out of your own mouth.


You deal with attacks on masonry with levity.

Although the Op is rediculous, how we handle ourselves in these situations is what the rest of the world sees. You come on this and specifically identify yourself a mason with your screen name and posts. You are the example that all of these people see. When you joke about satanic rituals and eating babies, i want to facepalm you. You have no respect for your oathes or your brothers. You have no idea how hard people work to dispell the terrible things people say about masons. You act like it's a fun game. You play on levity to gain stars and brownie points and sacrifice the reputation of your order, your oaths, and the honor of all of those who came before you.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
It's funny that you cannot see it for yourself.

My posting history has been quite clear on my ambivalence to people's choice on religion or lack there of.

Why would i be asked to demit?

Because of my jurisdictions adherence to the Ancient Landmarks.

You also called me a liar twice.

Really? Where? I never once accused you of lying.

You call yourself a pntheist so how does a bible oath equate with your beliefs?

As a panentheist I believe in a Supreme Being.

You deal with attacks on masonry with levity.

Which is pretty much how I handle all attacks on me of any type.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Woodcarver
It's funny that you cannot see it for yourself.

My posting history has been quite clear on my ambivalence to people's choice on religion or lack there of.

Why would i be asked to demit?

Because of my jurisdictions adherence to the Ancient Landmarks.

You also called me a liar twice.

Really? Where? I never once accused you of lying.

You call yourself a pntheist so how does a bible oath equate with your beliefs?

As a panentheist I believe in a Supreme Being.

You deal with attacks on masonry with levity.

Which is pretty much how I handle all attacks on me of any type.

So you do justify your lodges discrimination because...... Ancient landmarks? Because it's written in a book?


So answer these questions.

Do you believe in the bible?

Did you take your oath with your hand on the bible?

Because you said that if i didn't believe then i must have lied. (I actually refused the bible for my oath, because i am not a fraud) if you did in fact make a bible oath, what did that mean to you?

Are you ok with these ancient landmarks being upheld?