Bernie Sanders: ‘Democratic Socialist’ Or Out-And-Out Stalinist?

And whats wrong with Comrade Stalin, Comrade? You must be a wrecker, Kulak!

a reply to: xuenchen

Why do they need to counter some op-ed piece that doesn't even back up what it says even though it says there are articles that do just that??

The New York Times article doesn't, at least not the one I found, not going to bother with what came out of Israel if the author of the article can't even source where the 'story' came from.

originally posted by: RomeByFire

Socialism - destroying America, one snowplow and public library at a time.

I love this argument. It is perhaps the most intellectually dishonest and most stupid idea of all time.

Comparing Sanders to Stalin and Mao is not suggesting he is a totalitarian. It is suggesting that socialism has so many good ideas that they must be mandated, and in places where idealistic socialists have taken over, they have done so by killing millions of people while mandating socialism. The Soviets "collectivized the farms" by killing the farmers who resisted. And when you look at the result of this enforced socialism, you find stagnation and lowered living standards: Cuba, Venezuela, the USSR, etc. Now we can pretend China is "communist," but they surely do make good capitalists in real life.

And yes, you have a few rather tiny socialist-leaning countries who have small homogeneous populations. Bully for them. But the entire extremist idea that if we have public libraries, we must be socialists is laughable. NOBODY ever said you cannot pool resources for the common good, such as roads and fire departments, armies, and police departments, all paid for by tax dollars. Are these things technically socialist? Sure they are, but socialism suggests the government owns the means of production, and having public libraries doesn't do that.

Sanders is seen as a step in that direction. He seems to think the so-called wealthy have an infinite store of money he can divert to give free stuff to everyone else, particularly those who do not contribute themselves one dime to the common good themselves. It's a fool's game he is playing, and he's marginalizing "the 1%" just like Hitler blamed the Jews. It's the same tactic exactly. Would he personally be in favor of killing farmers? Of course not. I don't believe for a second that his as as extremist as the Marxists he admires. It's just that he's mired in a youthful past:

"If you are not a socialist before you are thirty you have no heart. If you are a socialist after thirty you have no head."

Sanders never made the transition. But if the extreme left gained a foothold on the means to power in this country I feel quite certain they would not be opposed to forcing their ideas on the rest of us by whatever means necessary.

a reply to: schuyler

Free electricity right, maybe if you forget about his tax-plan.

Haaretz is a standard big city news paper, right?

Mystery Solved: Haaretz Archive Reveals Which Kibbutz Bernie Sanders Volunteered On

Sometime during the 60s Bernie Sanders spent time on an Israeli kibbutz. However, with his campaign keeping mum, people have been left in the dark trying to figure out where. Now a clue has emerged from Haarez's archive.

www.haaretz.com...

and

In search of kibbutzniks who remember Bernard Sanders

Haaretz heads to Sha’ar Ha’amakim where the Democratic presidential candidate spent several months as a volunteer in 1963.

www.haaretz.com...

The editorial places Sanders at Sha'ar Ha'amakim as per the Haaretz article.

Xeunchen's OP editorial seems to be journalistically factual.

a reply to: whatsup86

Which is supposed to stay the same except for the rich...i have nothing against that.

a reply to: xuenchen

Looks like a hit piece to me. I love articles with no sources. I guess we'll just have to take their word for it...

Sha’ar Ha’amakim is a kibbutz in northern Israel. What's that got to do with the USSR?

a reply to: Tiamat384

Of course, it's mud slinging at its finest and this is the best they got. Who do they want in office, Trump, Cruz, Clinton?! Being this is an investment site I'm sure they swing all the way to the right and would never have anything good to say about Sanders.

originally posted by: schuyler
And yes, you have a few rather tiny socialist-leaning countries who have small homogeneous populations. Bully for them. But the entire extremist idea that if we have public libraries, we must be socialists is laughable. NOBODY ever said you cannot pool resources for the common good, such as roads and fire departments, armies, and police departments, all paid for by tax dollars. Are these things technically socialist? Sure they are, but socialism suggests the government owns the means of production, and having public libraries doesn't do that.

Bernie Sanders on being a democratic socialist

So the next time you hear me attacked as a socialist, remember this:

I don’t believe government should own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a fair deal.

I believe in private companies that thrive and invest and grow in America instead of shipping jobs and profits overseas.

I believe that most Americans can pay lower taxes – if hedge fund managers who make billions manipulating the marketplace finally pay the taxes they should.

I don’t believe in special treatment for the top 1%, but I do believe in equal treatment for African-Americans who are right to proclaim the moral principle that Black Lives Matter.

I despise appeals to nativism and prejudice, and I do believe in immigration reform that gives Hispanics and others a pathway to citizenship and a better life.

I don’t believe in some foreign “ism”, but I believe deeply in American idealism.

Also, from last night's townhall:

When I talk about democratic socialist, I'm not looking at Venezuela. I'm not looking at Cuba. I'm looking at countries like Denmark and Sweden.

So in one sense, Jose, we're not talking about Venezuela, we're not talking about Cuba. We are talking about the concept, which I don't think is a radical idea, of having a government which works to represent the needs of the middle class and working families rather than just the top 1 percent.

I notice a pattern amongst certain members of the boards here to do this "Hey, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Here's this thing I read, though, what about that?" stuff. It's very academically dishonest.

Socialist or not, he's a pure demagogue, promising people exactly what they want to hear, but hardly what they need.

You all Bernie-ites are OK with this then

Holodomor
Голодомор

Starved peasants on a street in Kharkiv, 1933.


Country
Soviet Union

Location
Ukrainian SSR

Period
1932–1933

Total deaths
2.4 to 7.5 million

Observations
Considered genocide by twenty five countries

Relief
Foreign relief rejected by the State. Respectively 176,200 and 325,000 tons of grains provided by the State as food and seed aids between February and July 1933.[1]

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
You all Bernie-ites are OK with this then

Holodomor
Голодомор

Starved peasants on a street in Kharkiv, 1933.


Country
Soviet Union

Location
Ukrainian SSR

Period
1932–1933

Total deaths
2.4 to 7.5 million

Observations
Considered genocide by twenty five countries

Relief
Foreign relief rejected by the State. Respectively 176,200 and 325,000 tons of grains provided by the State as food and seed aids between February and July 1933.[1]

This has what to do with Bernie, exactly? Have you ever heard of a Pogrom? Do you know what happened to Jews in the USSR?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

As if every single candidate ever hasn't done the exact same thing. This time though, people believe Bernie and are sick of lying, bought and paid for politicians.

originally posted by: Tiamat384
a reply to: RomeByFire
It's important to note he's not socialist. Despite what he says.

When Sanders was being "courted" by the Democratic Party did he not keep repeating he was a Socialist not a Democrat ?

From the wiki article about the Jewish movement involved in the kibbutz Sanders is said to have volunteered at:

Hashomer Hatzair believed that the liberation of Jewish youth could be accomplished by aliyah (immigration; literally "ascent") to Palestine and living in kibbutzim. After the war the movement spread to Jewish communities throughout the world as a scouting movement.

So it was an early attempt at building Israel. 50 years ago, the building of Israel was a new and experimental thing. I'm not surprised a Jewish youth was interested in such an endeavor.

Communism was a threat to capitalist corporate powers. It also proved to be a reliable, dependable, and VALUABLE boogyman to drastically increase defense spending, and make a lot of defense contractors very, very rich.

Americans were made to fear the "red godless menace" ... and Russians were similarly lied to and stuffed with state-sponsored propaganda to fear America.

It benefited the governments and wealthy elites of both nations during the cold war. The cold war was highly profitable...

But hey, at least we got cool James Bond movies out of it.

originally posted by: Tiamat384
Neither. He's a social democrat.

Is that why he's run as an Independent all these years?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Communism was a threat to capitalist corporate powers. It also proved to be a reliable, dependable, and VALUABLE boogyman to drastically increase defense spending, and make a lot of defense contractors very, very rich.

Americans were made to fear the "red godless menace" ... and Russians were similarly lied to and stuffed with state-sponsored propaganda to fear America.

It benefited the governments and wealthy elites of both nations during the cold war. The cold war was highly profitable...

But hey, at least we got cool James Bond movies out of it.

It also led to the murder of 94 million people in the last century. But who's counting?