Bernie Sanders: ‘Democratic Socialist’ Or Out-And-Out Stalinist?

originally posted by: Tiamat384
a reply to: amazing
It's obvious he did. I mean...look at Vermont!

Ironically, everyone I know from Vermont is a far left winger.

a reply to: JanAmosComenius

Don't underestimate the powers of fear and defeat. Sometimes, people have been beaten down so much that they're afraid that any change will only lead to more suffering. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't"?

Also, don't underestimate the power of greed. A lot of people profit off of the high medical and medicinal prices. Why would those people want drastically lower prices for their customers and buyers, especially when their products & services are necessities for those customers? It's the same for the deliberate price gouging with weddings, funerals, and products/services for babies. Hardcore capitalists will always try to keep prices high when their customers need a product or service.

a reply to: TheBulk
That's because the center line for America looks like this.

L-------------------------------------------------------|---------------------R

They might be "far left" for you guys, but they're still faaaar from Communism's far-left.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Executions, famines, forced labor, glugags in Russia and McCarthyism in America were direct responses to propaganda.

McCarthyism started because the State department had a list of Communists in the government. McCarthy wanted the government to explain and expel them.

when the Venona file was published in 1995, all these McCarthy cases were right there in the decrypts, each named significantly in the Soviet cables. From these identifications (and collateral data from the Kremlin archives) it’s apparent that, rather than being blameless martyrs, all were indeed Communists, Soviet agents, or assets of the KGB, just as McCarthy had suggested and generally speaking even more so.

Evans, M. Stanton (2007-11-06). Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies (Kindle Locations 753-756). The Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

The communists had been in the government so long that our govenrment policies were communist. Many of the communists uncovered by the Martin Dies, the first chairman of the House Committee on Un-American Activities fromed 1938, were still in the government in 1950.

Most to the present point, there were extensive parallels between Dies and McCarthy, not only in terms of general features and broad objectives, but as to many specific topics. Considering that their respective heydays in Congress were roughly ten years apart, it’s noteworthy that so many of the groups and individuals who drew their attention turned out to be the selfsame people.

Evans, M. Stanton (2007-11-06). Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies (Kindle Locations 984-987). The Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

The socialists coined the term McCarthyism, a term basically as wrong and incorrect in its definition as confusing the ocean and the sky. The socialists regularly lie, which is easy for them because what they have been told is a lie.

a reply to: TheBulk
Hah, guess I was actually right!

If socialism could do what it promises, then it would have happened naturally by now somewhere in the world. It would have flourished and become the model for all countries.

Socialism has never flourished, and it barely functions without massive debt.

Stalin starved millions to death, and that was known at the time that Bernie's kibbutz was founded.

Bernie is from the same Establishment that made Hitler and Stalin.

Dies [the first chairman of HUAC ] was popular with a reflexively anti-Communist public and thus had strong support in Congress, responsive to the voters. But he was disliked intensely by elites, or what were said to be such, in the academy, bureaucracy, and press corps.

Evans, M. Stanton (2007-11-06). Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies (Kindle Locations 976-978). The Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: DBCowboy

I-Wha-Ju-Huh? You aren't making any sense. It feel like I'm reading something from this page. Sanders isn't talking about "true real Socialism" because his policies aren't "true real Socialism" 'nor does that seem to be what he believes in.

Because if you have to lie to sell your ideology, then your ideology is flawed.

Except he's not lying to sell his ideology?

Seriously, where do you get this stuff from? If there's ONE thing almost everyone agrees on about Sanders, including those who don't like his policies (generally due to mistaken beliefs about the current state of the US, but oh well) it's that he's honest and sincere.

The only things a voter knows about a candidate is his voting record and his recorded contributors.

But Bernie is a socialist, as are all of the mainstream candidates, all of which sell gov solutions to any possible problem.

A conservative would say "At least 10% of the gov will be gone by the end of my term. At least one industry will have no regulations whatsoever."

Anyone who does not offer that is a socialist.

He is a die hard communist hidding beneath the democratic socialist label!!! he is the red boogie man!! comin to get ya!!!

Bernie Sanders: ‘Democratic Socialist’ Or Out-And-Out Stalinist? Easy. He is a democratic socialist who wants America to have a government for the People, by the People. Vote for Bernie. He is the only candidate running who is for all of us

The thing people do not consider is the authoritarian part of Stalin... In this, Stalin was much more like the GOP, punitive, pro torture, pro prison, pro big military and huge on "national security". If people would think critically, they could see that these things, arguably the worst part of Stalinism are aspects that appeal to the GOP. Sanders is against punitive usage of government, war and big government security apparatus.

I just think the American population is demented, sedated and unable to think critically. The best many can do is regurgitate what they see on their TV screens. This is why most conservatives hold the same, half witted ideas. 90% watch the same TV station and get information from a centralized source, because all other information has been deemed "liberal bias".

a reply to: Semicollegiate

A conservative would say "At least 10% of the gov will be gone by the end of my term. At least one industry will have no regulations whatsoever."

Anyone who does not offer that is a socialist

I have hesitated to respond to any of your posts because they seemed very "rant-like" and not very informed, but this comment is a doozy.

By your own standard, the Founding Fathers would be socialists.

That is how far Right this nation has gone and how badly informed people become. Things like regulations are now socialist.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Semicollegiate

A conservative would say "At least 10% of the gov will be gone by the end of my term. At least one industry will have no regulations whatsoever."

Anyone who does not offer that is a socialist

I have hesitated to respond to any of your posts because they seemed very "rant-like" and not very informed, but this comment is a doozy.

By your own standard, the Founding Fathers would be socialists.

That is how far Right this nation has gone and how badly informed people become. Things like regulations are now socialist.

The Hamiltonians were socialistic. Jeffersonians were not socialistic. And the majority of the population wanted nothing more than land and markets.

In the socialist version of history, all of the Founding Fathers were LBJ or FDR socialists.

By your standard, all of the Founding Fathers were socialists.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

In the socialist version of history, all of the Founding Fathers were LBJ or FDR socialists.

I'm a socialist and that is not the history I know.

By your standard, all of the Founding Fathers were socialists

No they were not, but I'd like to know what my "standards" are and how you learned about them.

A conservative would say "At least 10% of the gov will be gone by the end of my term. At least one industry will have no regulations whatsoever."

Anyone who does not offer that is a socialist.

By your own definition, the FF's would have been socialists. They were for regulations.

That is what I was commenting on and how absolutely absurd it is.

You have no clue what you are talking about and are now cornering yourself with your own words.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Semicollegiate



By your own definition, the FF's would have been socialists. They were for regulations.

That is what I was commenting on and how absolutely absurd it is.

You have no clue what you are talking about and are now cornering yourself with your own words.

The Founding Fathers wanted enforcement of the law, not regulation. No bureaucracy, just an official standard in money, weights and measures, and an impartial observer and arbiter of interstate behavior.

Regulations require a bureaucracy, the Constitution did not try to make a bureaucracy directly. Regulations also require an all powerful government that can make any laws it sees fit. The Founding Fathers, as a whole, did not want an all powerful government, although the Hamiltonian faction would have. Hamilton was the only Founding Father to have no native state and no local American cultural upbringing. He was born in the Empire in the Caribbean.

The first peace time regulations followed the Interstate Commerce Commission in 1887, not 1787. And the regulations were after the effectively single party war time system of Union Republicans versus Slavery Democrats had coalesced the power of the plutocrats and centralizers into the precedent of a single government over the States.

Standards are ground rules, they are established by common habit.

Regulations are made by authority, and can go against common habit and natural cooperative behavior. Regulations favor the authority in some way, or they would not be made.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
If socialism could do what it promises, then it would have happened naturally by now somewhere in the world. It would have flourished and become the model for all countries.

What type of ideology do the Europeans ascribe to? Are the Nordic nations socialist? Are they 'free-market'? Germany? France? The UK and it's national health system?

Are you really trying to suggest that America is the 'model' that all other nations should follow?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Semicollegiate



I'm a socialist and that is not the history I know.

The socialist voter seeks to impose his will on everyone from ignorance or greed, and has been successful.

No they were not, but I'd like to know what my "standards" are and how you learned about them.

"by their fruits ye shall know them"

Your standards are to have the gov do whatever to get you what you want. Which is by default socialism because it uses a gov with the power to do anything.

originally posted by: links234

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
If socialism could do what it promises, then it would have happened naturally by now somewhere in the world. It would have flourished and become the model for all countries.

What type of ideology do the Europeans ascribe to? Are the Nordic nations socialist? Are they 'free-market'? Germany? France? The UK and it's national health system?

Are you really trying to suggest that America is the 'model' that all other nations should follow?

The free market is what happens when people voluntarily trade surpluses or cooperate to produce surpluses. In some sense the free market is always present and operating. It is the result of what people voluntarily do.

Causes have effects. WW1 ended the rule of law, Constitutional Democracy, and replaced it with the rule of politician.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

So we were better off under robber barons, child labor, and calling in US soldiers to kill union organizers. Got it.

You still didn't answer my question about what ideology the Europeans are under. Because, again, according to you

If socialism could do what it promises...It would have flourished and become the model for all countries.

originally posted by: links234
a reply to: Semicollegiate

So we were better off under robber barons, child labor, and calling in US soldiers to kill union organizers. Got it.

The term "Robber Barons" is hook baited with a lie. The Robber Barons who reduced the price of everything by about 50% and got rich are not Robber Barons, but they are insinuated to be thieves by political entrepreneurs.

The real Robber Barons expanded the power of govenmrnt by cronyism and war, and then used that power. The Robber Barons were Politico Barons. And the politico barons are the one who used the army. In capitalism there would have been to army to use. Socialism makes armies, one way or another.

Children had to work in the 1800's, like they had had to work in all history before that. Child labor ended because the Industrial Revolution had increased the standard of living in an unprecedented growth of production and wealth. Socialism in 1800 would have prevented that, just as it has stalled the evolution of our economy and society since 1920.

You still didn't answer my question about what ideology the Europeans are under. Because, again, according to you

If socialism could do what it promises...It would have flourished and become the model for all countries.

I did answer

" WW1 ended the rule of law, Constitutional Democracy, and replaced it with the rule of politician."

Rule by politics is the ideology.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: RomeByFire

Socialism - destroying America, one snowplow and public library at a time.

I love this argument. It is perhaps the most intellectually dishonest and most stupid idea of all time.
...

And yes, you have a few rather tiny socialist-leaning countries who have small homogeneous populations. Bully for them.

Speaking of intellectual dishonesty. "A few rather tiny socialist-leaving countries", every G7 country is more socialist than America. The countries which have the highest standards of living in the world are more socialist. Don't pretend they're some odd outliers. Australia, Canada, Denmark, all are more socialist and all have higher standards of living and quality of life.

Don't try and scare people by pretending Sanders is taking us into a wild unknown, he's basing his policies on these proven successful nations.

You're the one that's intellectually dishonest.