Pope singling out Trump for his wall is incredibly...stupid…and a blatant political statement

originally posted by: ArchangelUriel
The established centers of power and wealth sure don't like Trump.

Perhaps you mean the "other" "centers of power and wealth"?
Trump is his own "center of power and wealth"!
Yeah, the voice of the little man...

a reply to: namelesss

No I mean exactly what I say. The established centers of power and wealth.

Outside of Russia and China every global leader has something bad to say about Trump. Can you blames them? They see complete idiot taking control of the most powerful nation on Earth. If you do not like the US you would love to see Trump in power and the end of the US a world leader. Remember all the worlds knows about Trump is all the stupid stuff he says. They are mostly not aware he is closet liberal who mean exactly zero of what he says.

originally posted by: ArchangelUriel
a reply to: namelesss

No I mean exactly what I say. The established centers of power and wealth.

Yeah, Trump!

a reply to: grey580

You could not be more wrong.

As the leader of one of the largest tax exempt orginizations in the US, the pope is strictly forbidden from making political statements in favor or opposition of candidates.

The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner.

On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: grey580

I’m not saying he doesn’t have the right to speak, of course he does.

But why single out this one politician for this one issue?

Why doesn’t he single out the whole GOP party for trying do deny health insurance to millions.

There’s others who want to build a wall not just Trump

Now, if you grow up and listen, he was asked about Trump and his self referential boasts of how much a Christian he is. The Pope responded that someone who would rather build walls rather than bridges is not acting in a Christian manner. What part of that comment do you think is unreasonable?

I think it's fairly pathetic when people think that someone like Trump is worth defending - and before anyone starts bleating like a deranged goat about separation of Church and state, remember 2 things...

1. Everyone is is entitled to an opinion, just that most of us don't get global coverage for ours
2. Trump is quite happy to keep whipping out the Bible his dear old ma gave him when he thinks there's a possibility of votes - blatant non separation of Church and state

a reply to: Deny Arrogance

If the Pope were actively campaigning against Trump then I would agree with you.

However he was asked a question by a reporter and he responded.

"I'd just say that this man is not Christian if he said it in this way," Francis told reporters in a mid-flight press conference after a trip to Mexico.

"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian," Francis said, according to the Associated Press's translation of the press conference.

I still don't see an active campaign from the Pope to influence voters.

Should the Pope come out and say to voters, "Don't vote for Trump." I would tell the Pope he needs to mind his beeswax.

Mr Pope tear down this Vatican wall.

I doubt CNN or others will relay it though.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Indigent
a reply to: schuyler

How many "refugees" does the Pope take care of in the Vatican?

www.reuters.com...

One family. Four people. Why that surely shows his commitment. What a grand gesture!

/sarc

Or indeed a political gesture. This pope is a politician first and a christian second it seems.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: grey580

I’m not saying he doesn’t have the right to speak, of course he does.

But why single out this one politician for this one issue?

Why doesn’t he single out the whole GOP party for trying do deny health insurance to millions.

There’s others who want to build a wall not just Trump

Now, if you grow up and listen, he was asked about Trump and his self referential boasts of how much a Christian he is. The Pope responded that someone who would rather build walls rather than bridges is not acting in a Christian manner. What part of that comment do you think is unreasonable?

I think it's fairly pathetic when people think that someone like Trump is worth defending - and before anyone starts bleating like a deranged goat about separation of Church and state, remember 2 things...

1. Everyone is is entitled to an opinion, just that most of us don't get global coverage for ours
2. Trump is quite happy to keep whipping out the Bible his dear old ma gave him when he thinks there's a possibility of votes - blatant non separation of Church and state

Sounds very unreasonable to me. He was asked about Trump and his claims he is a christian and responded that he is not a christian because he wants to build a wall? The pope is obviously a nut job. He doesn't sound very intelligent either. Trump has built many things, not just walls and created tens of thousands of jobs for American families.

Francis should have kept his mouth shut and he should focus on setting the right examples, not attacking others in a very un-christian way.
He should also take some anger therapy - I recently saw him contort his face into anger and raise his hand to one of his followers because he was accidently pushed.

At the moment he is just a front man for yet another totally dishonest and corrupt organisation.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: grey580

I’m not saying he doesn’t have the right to speak, of course he does.

But why single out this one politician for this one issue?

Why doesn’t he single out the whole GOP party for trying do deny health insurance to millions.

There’s others who want to build a wall not just Trump

Now, if you grow up and listen, he was asked about Trump and his self referential boasts of how much a Christian he is. The Pope responded that someone who would rather build walls rather than bridges is not acting in a Christian manner. What part of that comment do you think is unreasonable?

I think it's fairly pathetic when people think that someone like Trump is worth defending - and before anyone starts bleating like a deranged goat about separation of Church and state, remember 2 things...

1. Everyone is is entitled to an opinion, just that most of us don't get global coverage for ours
2. Trump is quite happy to keep whipping out the Bible his dear old ma gave him when he thinks there's a possibility of votes - blatant non separation of Church and state

Sounds very unreasonable to me. He was asked about Trump and his claims he is a christian and responded that he is not a christian because he wants to build a wall? The pope is obviously a nut job. He doesn't sound very intelligent either. Trump has built many things, not just walls and created tens of thousands of jobs for American families.

Francis should have kept his mouth shut and he should focus on setting the right examples, not attacking others in a very un-christian way.

Setting the right example is building a bridge, not a wall. I'm not sure if you are reading this so literally you can't actually understand it, but just like the Pope you are of course entitled to your opinion.

Every word the Pope speaks publicly is scripted and discussed at length. For anyone to suggest the Pope's comments are not politically motivated are being somewhat dishonest with themselves.
Actions like this may have persuaded people 20 years ago but now we can see right through them... It's really disappointing to see a Pope who can be bought.
The financial, political and media triad have no more power other than these institutions. The message is: Don't fcuk with Trump... It comes across very loud and very clear.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: grey580

I’m not saying he doesn’t have the right to speak, of course he does.

But why single out this one politician for this one issue?

Why doesn’t he single out the whole GOP party for trying do deny health insurance to millions.

There’s others who want to build a wall not just Trump

Now, if you grow up and listen, he was asked about Trump and his self referential boasts of how much a Christian he is. The Pope responded that someone who would rather build walls rather than bridges is not acting in a Christian manner. What part of that comment do you think is unreasonable?

I think it's fairly pathetic when people think that someone like Trump is worth defending - and before anyone starts bleating like a deranged goat about separation of Church and state, remember 2 things...

1. Everyone is is entitled to an opinion, just that most of us don't get global coverage for ours
2. Trump is quite happy to keep whipping out the Bible his dear old ma gave him when he thinks there's a possibility of votes - blatant non separation of Church and state

Sounds very unreasonable to me. He was asked about Trump and his claims he is a christian and responded that he is not a christian because he wants to build a wall? The pope is obviously a nut job. He doesn't sound very intelligent either. Trump has built many things, not just walls and created tens of thousands of jobs for American families.

Francis should have kept his mouth shut and he should focus on setting the right examples, not attacking others in a very un-christian way.

Setting the right example is building a bridge, not a wall. I'm not sure if you are reading this so literally you can't actually understand it, but just like the Pope you are of course entitled to your opinion.

Only a bridge? What about building other things, or is it just bridges? Francis was being metaphorical and he obviously has no clue on what Trump has actually done through his career. We're all good in ways and bad in others. To label Trump un-christian because he wants to build a wall is completely pathetic. What if that wall keeps out even 10% of the drugs flowing into America? How many lives will Trump have saved/improved? This is not an issue that can so simply be used for labelling a man. That is why Francis was being unreasonable. In fact, he was being a prat.

The Pope is just a man, and it appears not a very nice one. Beware false idols. That goes for Trump too.

a reply to: Willtell

Pity The Native American Indians never got around to building a wall.

To keep out European invaders.

It's part of the Pope's job to speak on moral matters.

The Pope is not wrong when he says it is against the ethos of Christianity to turn away the poor and needy.

Remember, Jesus was all about embracing the desperate. And we should not forget this passage:


Mark 10:17-31
The Rich Man

17 As Jesus was starting out on his way to Jerusalem, a man came running up to him, knelt down, and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good. 19 But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. You must not cheat anyone. Honor your father and mother.’[a]”

20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”

21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God!” 24 This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard to enter the Kingdom of God. 25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

originally posted by: Painterz
It's part of the Pope's job to speak on moral matters.

The Pope is not wrong when he says it is against the ethos of Christianity to turn away the poor and needy.

Remember, Jesus was all about embracing the desperate. And we should not forget this passage:


Mark 10:17-31
The Rich Man

17 As Jesus was starting out on his way to Jerusalem, a man came running up to him, knelt down, and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good. 19 But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. You must not cheat anyone. Honor your father and mother.’[a]”

20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”

21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God!” 24 This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard to enter the Kingdom of God. 25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

This is exactly why politics and religion do not mix. Take it further and you realise that it is also un-christian to judge the sinners. By that we could say that it is un-christian not to let murderers and drug dealers into the country. In fact we should be welcoming them and trying to help them.

If we go down this path then the only christian thing to do is let everyone in the world live in America and have richer Americans look after them and pay for their needs.

This is the reason why what Pope Francis said was ridiculuos and he should be ignored.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: grey580

I’m not saying he doesn’t have the right to speak, of course he does.

But why single out this one politician for this one issue?

Why doesn’t he single out the whole GOP party for trying do deny health insurance to millions.

There’s others who want to build a wall not just Trump

Now, if you grow up and listen, he was asked about Trump and his self referential boasts of how much a Christian he is. The Pope responded that someone who would rather build walls rather than bridges is not acting in a Christian manner. What part of that comment do you think is unreasonable?

I think it's fairly pathetic when people think that someone like Trump is worth defending - and before anyone starts bleating like a deranged goat about separation of Church and state, remember 2 things...

1. Everyone is is entitled to an opinion, just that most of us don't get global coverage for ours
2. Trump is quite happy to keep whipping out the Bible his dear old ma gave him when he thinks there's a possibility of votes - blatant non separation of Church and state

Sounds very unreasonable to me. He was asked about Trump and his claims he is a christian and responded that he is not a christian because he wants to build a wall? The pope is obviously a nut job. He doesn't sound very intelligent either. Trump has built many things, not just walls and created tens of thousands of jobs for American families.

Francis should have kept his mouth shut and he should focus on setting the right examples, not attacking others in a very un-christian way.

Setting the right example is building a bridge, not a wall. I'm not sure if you are reading this so literally you can't actually understand it, but just like the Pope you are of course entitled to your opinion.

Only a bridge? What about building other things, or is it just bridges? Francis was being metaphorical and he obviously has no clue on what Trump has actually done through his career. We're all good in ways and bad in others. To label Trump un-christian because he wants to build a wall is completely pathetic. What if that wall keeps out even 10% of the drugs flowing into America? How many lives will Trump have saved/improved? This is not an issue that can so simply be used for labelling a man. That is why Francis was being unreasonable. In fact, he was being a prat.

The Pope is just a man, and it appears not a very nice one. Beware false idols. That goes for Trump too.

Never mind, I guess it's too much for you to take in. Not sure why you would get involved in a discussion that you don't really comprehend but that is very much your decision - good luck with that wall.

a reply to: uncommitted


A word of advice, when you try and take the high ground on comprehension with someone you don't know you come across as being very arrogant. I took your point in and decided to reject it. Nothing personal.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: uncommitted


A word of advice, when you try and take the high ground on comprehension with someone you don't know you come across as being very arrogant. I took your point in and decided to reject it. Nothing personal.

Nothing personal back, no arrogance here, just you don't seem to understand why the Pope said what he said. In other posts you have alluded to the Pope talking about political matters which like several people on ATS you don't seem to believe he should voice an opinion - yet the Trump talks about just how much of a God fearing Christian he is (at least while chasing the Christian votes, I'm sure that won't last). Doesn't that mean that the Trump strayed into someone else's territory and they had a right to reply?

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: uncommitted


A word of advice, when you try and take the high ground on comprehension with someone you don't know you come across as being very arrogant. I took your point in and decided to reject it. Nothing personal.

Nothing personal back, no arrogance here, just you don't seem to understand why the Pope said what he said. In other posts you have alluded to the Pope talking about political matters which like several people on ATS you don't seem to believe he should voice an opinion - yet the Trump talks about just how much of a God fearing Christian he is (at least while chasing the Christian votes, I'm sure that won't last). Doesn't that mean that the Trump strayed into someone else's territory and they had a right to reply?

I understand fully why the Pope said what he said.

Your comparison is flawed. You don't have to be elected to be a christian. When you represent hundreds of millions of people (many of which follow his word unquestionably) , poking your nose into a countries' presidential elections without being balanced is completely irresponsible. Declaring someone as un-christian is also uncalled for, especially when he has never even met Trump.

What happened is that he was asked a question and was not smart enough to realise he was being set up for politcal reasons. Pure stupidity on his part. If he is going to try and play politics then he should at least have the courtesy to get up to speed, otherwise he is doing his followers a great disservice.

Pope Francis' actions over the last year tell me he is not very christian himself and is, in my view, giving christianity a bad name.