Disolve the BLM, return all lands under their management to Natives it was taken from

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RoadCourse

I'm sorry ... "the Engine"?

Which one? Ford's?

Pontiac,silly!Now that was a native engine!

Have we covered all the bases?
-the pristine wilderness myth?
-native's were peaceful people
-chief make quote "white man crazy"
-they never exhausted the environment or polluted
-way more spiritual, in harmony with nature, world came up on a turtle
-native americans are one people, one nation

Native americans already have a system where they make money on the white man's sin.

a reply to: intrptr
If all you know about Indians is what you've seen in the movies I'd suggest you do a bit of research.
Yes, there were "cities" in North America. The settlement of Cahokia Mounds was estimated to have a larger population than London at the same time period. Google is your friend. There are literally hundreds of research projects on that area alone.

My contention is that state government can protect land and resources much more efficiently than federal government. They are more easily changed and it is far easier to look your state legislators in the eye than getting in touch with a federal representative.

The bottom line is that the Constitution outlines which land the feds can own and neither wildlife refuges or parks are mentioned---only military installations. That clause has been systematically violated and the people suffer. Who can fight the resources of the United States government?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Thanks, Mystik. Yah, on food storage in Bear Country. They got those in Yosemite, too. I had a bear stand over me and eat a pop tart some kid left out one night.

Thats was pawsome. Never been above 10000 feet. Not that I didn't want to, Just preferred sunnier climes. So you lived there a long time, I bet you been witness to the warming effect and ice melting that people claim is going on?

How about it. Any incremental change up there over your lifetime?

a reply to: diggindirt

If all you know about Indians is what you've seen in the movies I'd suggest you do a bit of research.

Puhlease. Movies are parables in that they do sometimes capture the feel of certain aspects of history, some directors do it better than others. Of course it isn't history.

Regarding historical records, beware there too, the written record reflects the victors tale. I agree there were huge populations, millions of Natives lived here, were wiped out by Manifest Destiny and White Mans Treachery.

I'm surprised you left out Chaco Canyon, obviously an Urban center. Roads, visible by satellite, leading away for miles in every direction.

Chaco Canyon

I have studied enough history to know more now. When I was young the 'cowboys and Indians' myth, the savages and heathen 'indians' decimated by John Wayne's Hollywood kept us kiddies in the dark. Elementary Education in those days only concerned with the white record.

I have personally found arrowheads and seen holes worn in the rock from grinding pine nuts and acorn up on the valley rim around here, ancient cultures from long ago. So sad to have this blank spot. Since I am visual I respect certain attempts by more modern movie making to recapture the feel of what it must have been like, no matter how unlike reality it really is.

Certain Elements of Dances With Wolves and Little Big Man come to mind.
Edit: I am open to any links to help me better understand history…

a reply to: DBCowboy
they need to give up some kind of assets when china and the rest of the world come knocking to cash in their chips!!!

but, if they don't find a way to get more rain falling in the west, we might need to use some of that land (if it's still habitable to move the people in the drought stricken areas to. giving it to the native tribes wouldn't be all that fair I dare say, even to the native tribes. The Senecas want land that people are living on. The Onondagas want the Onondaga Lake back. In many cases, it's particular tracts of land that they are after, land that view as sacred. The Mohawks just seem to want everyone to recognize that as far as they are concerned, that boundary that divides their reservation making some canadians and some Citizens of the US kind of doesn't exist in their minds. Offering them a plot of land in the nearest national park in exchange to the ancestral lands that they are holding now, along with those that they still claim could possibly open the rift wider between the traditionalists and the more modern among the tribes and there's already been quite a bit of violence between those factions.
If they were to start something akin to a new homestead act, maybe we should give those natives who owned that land first priority. those who are occupying those areas that the tribes are focusing on second, and well, everyone else third and make moves so that no one is actually forced to give up their property that they own in some way. I have no idea how this could work in reality, but there possibly could be a way. I'd go with tracts of land smaller than the 100+ acres also, unless if was to a tribe, or maybe an industry, or a group of people wanting to try out an alternative lifestyle (commune) but, I'd have alot of smaller tracts of an acre or two also.
Something like this I'd go for, as long as the gov't retained some of the national and state parks.

I would also give back lands that belong to farm families. If the BLM took their farm they would get it back. I would also remove the eminent domain law from all states and cities.

a reply to: DBCowboy
No Tespassing signs, gates, fences, no camping, no hunting, preserving forests from clear cutting.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

originally posted by: machineintelligence
a reply to: sweets777

Took it to do what exactly with it? The natives would care for the land like it was their own (because the respect it). The BLM uses it like a commodity broker for their own private self interest.

How do you arrive at this idea. Is it just a romantic fiction you hold to?

I am a member and employee of a sovereign nation who owns tons of land and continues to buy up available land within our tribal boundaries.

Theres no romance or spiritualism to it. Its all about money and businesses.

However, the profits trickle down to the tribal members in the form of Housing, social services, health and community.

Our travel stops, factories, hotels and casinos have the same waste production as any "white" organization.


Time to do away with the notion of Native American tribes being this Sylvan Elf, earth attuned spirit guide nonsense. We are human and go to walmart and use city trash and rural dumps like the rest of you pale faces!

Cheers!

a reply to: Butterfinger

I remember traveling through oklahoma in the 80's... I assume that is where you are at looking at your info. It seemed very proverty stricken back then, and well mostly native american. I'm from NY, and got the impression that the tribes up there were doing rather well really. What I saw in oklahoma kind of blew me away. I do hope things have improved over the last few decades?

a reply to: Butterfinger

Thanks Butter. You make my point much clearer than I did.
Sylvan Elf. Yeah, that does seem to be a standard stereotype.

a reply to: dawnstar

I moved back to Ok in 2002 after 20 years, so I cant comment on the 80's. I can say Chickasaw and Choctaw nations have actually improved alot. Since the early 90's we(Chickasaw Nation) have been completely debt free!

Of course the state has one of the highest meth uses in the country, so no matter what, you have this element.

In fact we have the largest Casino( factor square feet and gaming machines) in the world!

chickasawcountry.com...


There are other smaller tribes that have had hard times, and still do obviously

a reply to: Butterfinger

Is so good to hear you say this. *hugs my fellow human* All human, each and every one of us... unless some of you are alien hybrid spies... >.>

a reply to: intrptr
Here's a National Geo story on Cahokia. ngm.nationalgeographic.com...
It is a good overview of the site and the various viewpoints of several folks who have devoted their lives to uncovering the past.
The studies to which I referred were done in the area when the highway system was expanded. I believe it was called the Hwy 270 Project and involved literally hundreds of sites. I'm not sure if they are available on the net but will check. I know they were all published and several were presented at conferences. They could be listed as the American Bottoms projects or Black Bottoms project. Several of those reports show the environmental and nutritional decline at the end of the occupation of that region. The dispersal of the population led to what was called the "Vacant Quarter" by early explorers. There were multiple villages and hamlets along the rivers that were abandoned by the time the European explorers arrived to explore the Mississippi and Missouri rivers.

This site is state owned and is a prime example of how state ownership can work quite well to preserve remnants of past cultures and educate us about the past.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Butterfinger

Thanks Butter. You make my point much clearer than I did.
Sylvan Elf. Yeah, that does seem to be a standard stereotype.

Yes, the Indians finally surrendered to the cowboys, (sarc off). White man didn't give them much choice, ever.

Ether become corrupted as us or rot.

In another time and place certain people are referred to as Honorary White, or Uncle Toms. Is there such a derogatory for Native Americans Become Pale Face amongst Native Americans?

Custer had a scout, the other scouts pet name for him was "White Man Runs Him".

a reply to: diggindirt

Thanks. I live in Silicon Valley, used to spend a lot of time at the downtown library. Once upon a time they were working downstairs near the building digging for a new foundation or something and had to halt work because they came upon grave sites for Native Americans living here on the Valley Floor. They barely halted work for the short time it took to collect the bones, more to precede with the work than any forensic study. I saw them do it from an upstairs balcony. They were pulling up human femurs and skulls.

I note there was only a short article in the news about it. Since haven't heard anything else.

Like most West Coast tribes and peoples, there is little to no information unless it involves some sort of fight with the government.

a reply to: Butterfinger
Thanks for the reply.
Wondering though how many idiots want to tell you about how they are 1/8 Native American and how their Great Grandmother was a Cherokee "Princess" or maybe they sometimes feel in tune with nature when they listen to Bill Miller, some other nonsense?" LOL

a reply to: intrptr
Indians call the power-corrupted of their nation "apples", "red on the outside and white on the inside." At least that's why my rez-raised relatives call them.

a reply to: diggindirt
Thanks for that tidbit,

"Apples", succinct. I learned about 'White Man Runs Him" from a history channel series that was better than most. The Real West.

Heres the intro:

Vimeo

The racism never stops...