The end of the protestant heresy

a reply to: DISRAELI

Ah, the ol big "c", little "c" argument. It gets old, but its very important. As I'm sure you know, both The Apostle's Creed, (the original) and the later, refined Nicene Creed (325 ad) are both statements made first by, and promulgated by The Catholic Church. Glad ya'll like it. Thank you, and you're welcome.

In The Apostles Creed: ...."I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, etc, etc.". This statement of faith dates to the first century.

The only Christian church with valid apostolic succession is The Catholic Church. This is an empirical truth. Henry VIII, who officially broke away from Rome, because he couldn't get his annulment; basically started The Anglican Church, and is not in a direct descent from the apostles. So, For any non-Catholic to recite the Nicene Creed, is quite ridiculous actually. Why would you recite something that is not true if you are not Catholic?

Because you believe in Jesus does not make you catholic (little c). You've hijacked a word. You think you know what that word means, but you don't know what that word means. To simply say it means "universal", is too shallow. What is universal? The Good News is meant for the whole world. It's not the Church of England, it's not the Church of Italy, it's not the Church of Timbuktu, it's for EVERYone. The message is for everyone. It's catholic. And the correct, apostolic,catholic teaching, resides within The Catholic Church.

Every non-Catholic Christian church contains some truth. But, The Catholic Church contains the fullness of Truth. Why nibble at the hors d'oeuvres, when the entire banquet is available? Come on in!

originally posted by: Ignatian
But, The Catholic Church contains the fullness of Truth.

No, that is what they tell you, but it is not true. Let us look at the history

The First Council of Nicaea (/naɪˈsiːə/; Greek: Νίκαια [ˈni:kaɪja]) was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. This first ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.[5]

So not only the church of Rome... then

The First Council of Constantinople (Ancient Greek: Κωνσταντινούπολις Konstantinoúpolis) was a council of Christian bishops convened in Constantinople in AD 381 by the Roman Emperor Theodosius I.[1][2] This second ecumenical council, an effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom,[3] confirmed the Nicene Creed,

Have a look here
www.vatican.va...

the holy catholic Church,

and

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

Notice even the vatican uses lower case "catholic."

originally posted by: Ignatian
Ah, the ol big "c", little "c" argument. It gets old, but its very important.

If you agree that it's important, why do you then ignore it?

both The Apostle's Creed, (the original) and the later, refined Nicene Creed (325 ad) are both statements made first by, and promulgated by The Catholic Church.

No, they were made and promulgated by the catholic church. See what I mean?

The only Christian church with valid apostolic succession is The Catholic Church. This is an empirical truth.

The Church of Christ consists of all those who belong to Christ, "the blessed company of all faithful people".That is New Testament truth. That is the only definition of the church that I will accept as valid, because you won't find any other definition within the New Testament.

So, For any non-Catholic to recite the Nicene Creed, is quite ridiculous actually. Why would you recite something that is not true if you are not Catholic?

The fact that I accept it as true is what makes me a catholic.
I am part of the church because I belong to Christ, and that is the only definition that matters.
So I challenge you now- what definition of the church can you concoct that will place me outside the church? What do you want to impose in addition to Christ to be the foundation of my faith?

The message is for everyone. It's catholic. And the correct, apostolic,catholic teaching, resides within The Catholic Church.

The second half of that statement does not follow on from the first. I have received the message intended for everyone, and I received it outside your community.

But, The Catholic Church contains the fullness of Truth. Why nibble at the hors d'oeuvres, when the entire banquet is available? Come on in!

No, Christ is the fullness of Truth. That is all I need.
Your community cannot offer me anything that Christ fails to provide.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Christ instituted the sacraments, which you do not have. You do not share in the fullness of truth. Your church does not have apostolic succession, therefore, NO authority ( no keys). I don't wanna follow any church, I want to follow HIS church. There are many things Jesus did and said that are not in the bible. Catholic Tradition fills in those blanks for us. This is the fullness of truth.

The Catholic Church IS the universal Christian family, in communion with St. Peter's successor, the pope. Founded by Jesus Christ himself through the apostles, it is singular both in its catholicity and its' subservience to the "rock".

When Jesus stated Peter was the "rock", upon which He would construct his church, it was implied His church was visible, tangible, it was possible to identify it, to see exactly where it was. So, where is it? I know. It's visible...tangible. It's not just for anyone to make up versions that reside only in their own mind. It is THE rock. The Catholic Church.

See also: Mt 5:14, 16:18, Mt 18:15-17, Jn 17:21-23, Acts 1:20; 14-24; 15: 1-29; 20:28-31, Romans 13:13; 16:17, 1Cor 1:10-13; 12:12-27, 1Tim 3:1-4, 2Tim 4:1-5, 1Pet 5:1.....and I could go on and on. It just makes sense. But It's so easy to say....if you're a Catholic. I honestly do pray that my separated brothers and sisters in Christ and the church that Jesus founded are all one again someday. I think it will happen, I truly do.

originally posted by: Ignatian
I honestly do pray that my separated brothers and sisters in Christ and the church that Jesus founded are all one again someday. I think it will happen, I truly do.

So the pedophile church of Rome priests (that the church hierarchy protect and cover up) can have even more children to play with!

Or so the church of Rome can bring things like this back!

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Ignatian
Your church does not have...

Like many people, you are fixated on the human communities organised as institutional bodies, which call themselves "churches" or "denominations".
Don't you get it yet? The church is the entire body of EVERYONE in the world who belongs to Christ,and I belong to that world-wide community of all Christians. Therefore I am in the church. The human institutions are not important.

That was the point of my previous statement; "I am part of the church because I belong to Christ".
I assumed that you would see the absurdity of putting anything else on a level with Christ.

I honestly do pray that my separated brothers and sisters in Christ and the church that Jesus founded are all one again someday. I think it will happen, I truly do.

And I would like you to understand that we are ALREADY one. In Christ, who is the sole foundation of our unity.
You need to understand that the "separated brethren" are not separated from the church which Christ founded. They are only separated from your particular community, one of the institutional fragments of the church which Christ founded.
Just accept us as fellow-Christians, fellow-members of the church of Christ, and get off our backs.

a reply to: Ignatian

The blood of 11 of the 12 apostles, and all the other, countless martyrs in the first centuries of the church is what built Jesus' church, The Catholic Church. We honor them to this day as saints. Our heroes. Most of these folks were practicing, devout Jews. They went to synagogue, they followed many of the 600+ mosaic laws, they acknowledged the Sabbath, etc, etc. BUT. They also snuck off on Sunday, The Lord's day, to listen to the gospel, the awesome stuff Jesus taught, to share the kiss of peace and to consecrate the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. As they were taught, and as they were told to do, in remembrance of Him. "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood....". This started almost immediately after Jesus took off. This was the progenitor of The Holy Mass of the early Catholic Church. It continues to this day, just not so sneaky...yet.

The Roman persecution of the early Christians was nasty. It was just as evil and genocidal as the Nazi Holocaust...but in contrast, it lasted almost 300 years! Among all the accusations against Christians, such as them claiming their Messiah, died and rose from the dead...was the accusation they were cannibals. They were claiming to be eating flesh and drinking blood on Sundays. This was disgusting, blasphemous and was to be stamped out. And so it went on and on and on...for almost 300 years. They died for their faith. They witnessed Jesus and easily went to their deaths, willingly actually, because they knew The Truth. This is documented history, read Tertullian. They knew this world is only a finite amount of time. A layover. And on and on it went, for nearly 300 years. Just think about that.

Whats my point? Cannibals. Hmmm, what church today is still accused of being cannibals? This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ALL the early Christians, every one of them that got devoured by hungry lions, or hunted for sport on drunken Friday nights, were what we now call Catholics. Their "church"? It is what we now call The Catholic Church.

All non-Catholic Christians owe their foundational spirituality to the blood of the martyrs. For 1500+ years, all Christians belonged to what we now call The Catholic Church.

I'm not here to preach nor proselytize, Notice, I've never started a thread. I'm stating facts, in response to blatant and all too common misconceptions, misrepresentations and in some cases, outright drivel. I wish more folks studied their Christian history. There has never been one person who has studied their way out of The Catholic Church. The opposite was true for me, my reason brought me into the Church, it was the only logical choice. I was following Truth, wherever it lead. It lead me to the absolute genius that is Catholicism.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Disraeli, with all due respect, I follow the ENTIRE bible. I don't just throw up a sail and go with the wind.

Goodnight and God bless.

AMDG

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: DISRAELI

Disraeli, with all due respect, I follow the ENTIRE bible.

So you think women should not be allowed to speak in church....

"1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. "

Women are not allowed to teach...

"1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

a reply to: Ignatian

One last thought, Disraeli is basically buying into the myth of "the invisible church"...."Catholic with a small c" is the dead giveaway. This is easily refuted with common sense as well as scripture. Should The Spirit compel me, I will summarily address this tomorrow.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I don't see how anyone could go to one of those dogma factorys.
I'll find God and define him as I believe.
We have been LIED to far too long.

Most that claim Christianity join a congregation, they could all be defined as dogma factories.

I honestly felt the most comfortable with catholicism, I traveled a lot for work at the time, have been to mass in several different languages, and could follow along. Alas, they left me wanting as well, I will continue to believe in a great spirit, and try to be the best person I can.

Seriously guys, you are all spouting a bunch of feces. The Church of Rome has faced some major obstacles, the schism with the east, the black popes, not to mention the first nation issues in Canada, and problems with child sexual abuse world wide.

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: Ignatian

The blood of 11 of the 12 apostles, and all the other, countless martyrs in the first centuries of the church is what built Jesus' church, The Catholic Church. We honor them to this day as saints. Our heroes. Most of these folks were practicing, devout Jews. They went to synagogue, they followed many of the 600+ mosaic laws, they acknowledged the Sabbath, etc, etc. BUT. They also snuck off on Sunday, The Lord's day, to listen to the gospel, the awesome stuff Jesus taught, to share the kiss of peace and to consecrate the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. As they were taught, and as they were told to do, in remembrance of Him. "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood....". This started almost immediately after Jesus took off. This was the progenitor of The Holy Mass of the early Catholic Church. It continues to this day, just not so sneaky...yet.

The Roman persecution of the early Christians was nasty. It was just as evil and genocidal as the Nazi Holocaust...but in contrast, it lasted almost 300 years! Among all the accusations against Christians, such as them claiming their Messiah, died and rose from the dead...was the accusation they were cannibals. They were claiming to be eating flesh and drinking blood on Sundays. This was disgusting, blasphemous and was to be stamped out. And so it went on and on and on...for almost 300 years. They died for their faith. They witnessed Jesus and easily went to their deaths, willingly actually, because they knew The Truth. This is documented history, read Tertullian. They knew this world is only a finite amount of time. A layover. And on and on it went, for nearly 300 years. Just think about that.

Whats my point? Cannibals. Hmmm, what church today is still accused of being cannibals? This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ALL the early Christians, every one of them that got devoured by hungry lions, or hunted for sport on drunken Friday nights, were what we now call Catholics. Their "church"? It is what we now call The Catholic Church.

All non-Catholic Christians owe their foundational spirituality to the blood of the martyrs. For 1500+ years, all Christians belonged to what we now call The Catholic Church.

I'm not here to preach nor proselytize, Notice, I've never started a thread. I'm stating facts, in response to blatant and all too common misconceptions, misrepresentations and in some cases, outright drivel. I wish more folks studied their Christian history. There has never been one person who has studied their way out of The Catholic Church. The opposite was true for me, my reason brought me into the Church, it was the only logical choice. I was following Truth, wherever it lead. It lead me to the absolute genius that is Catholicism.

I studied my self out of every church, and you will find that most atheists and agnostics have done the same.

ETA: If you would like to debate Christian History, let us take it to the History forum. I am not a historian, but well educated, and have internet research skills that would blow you mind. Something about being on the internet since 1990, and involved in local BBS's before that, may give me a leg up, as well as being a history buff.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

I didn't like what the Jesuits have done and I won't worship anyone but Jesus and God.

a reply to: piney

Why quote Nostradamus? Why not use your own Bible?

Conveniently overlook Revelations - The whore of Babylon aka The Catholic Church

a reply to: brancolinoxx

The Bible is much more than a few rules. It explains the supernatural in ways no other book does.

You should look at some of the books they considered heretical, or the schisms in the first 400 years after Jesus.

You may see that what you worship is not mans friend.

a reply to: chr0naut


Dont forget the Staff Of Moses, but that wasn't using black magic or was it?


en.wikipedia.org...

According to the Book of Exodus in the Bible, the staff used by Moses (Hebrew: מַטֶּה‎ matteh, translated "rod" in the King James Bible) was by his side throughout important milestones in the narrative. Among these milestone events or "miracles of the exodus" the Bible describes that the staff was used to produce water from a rock, was transformed into a snake and back, and was used at the parting of the Red Sea.[1] Whether or not Moses' staff was the same as that used by his brother Aaron (known as Aaron's rod) has been debated by rabbinical scholars.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Well, maybe from the OP, who uses non-Scriptural writing to talk about others being "heretics".

You could even go deeper and see the so called scriptural official version for what it is....A tool to control your Mind and your soul


All Roads lead to Rome
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yahweh = Satan. They have you worshiping evil.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Ignatian

I honestly do pray that my separated brothers and sisters in Christ and the church that Jesus founded are all one again someday. I think it will happen, I truly do.

Oh, I'm pretty sure it will happen, but I don't think that reconciliation will come quite the way you imagine. Most of us who follow Christ and are of Him are scattered all over and we will be brought together despite what dogmas we follow here on earth.

a reply to: markosity1973

Furthermore by it's own internal prophesy it will shrink to the tiniest core of true believers

And what is Truth? We've studied all the books ad infinitum, seen the Miracles for what they are, crucified a thousand Messiahs, followed the players from Paradise/Eden, refused to bow down to the Demiurge and peeked behind the Wizards Of Ozs curtain,

shush, ye are gods...they dont want you to know that however