Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: luthier



Then Russia should have listened the first several times it was warned about violating Turkish airspace.

You need to analyse the facts presented by Turkey before you make a fool of your self....

Turkey warned SU-24 to leave Turkish airspace 10 times over a 5 minute period...FACT

The Turkish area the SU- 24 is claimed to have flown over by as shown on the Turkish map is no more than 5 miles wide....FACT

SU-24 would be travelling around 500 miles an hour

DO THE MATH....it doesn't add up.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Who the F is talking about yoga?

You (and clearly the Turkish military) need to look at the bigger picture and get..a..grip.

You are, when you equate violating airspace and ignoring warnings as "Political correctness". It's not. If they violated the airspace they should have answered the warnings. If someone violates Scottish Airspace, and ignores multiple warnings, what do you want your airforce to do? I know what I want mine to do.

When did I speak about yoga? Have you lost your mind? Stick to the topic!

We liaise with Russian jets almost bi-monthly that violate our airpspace we do not shoot them down!

Already explained, my mind is not the problem here, I think you understand perfectly well and want to play the fool because the alternative would be to admit you said something stupid.

Russian bombers test airspace, they come close to test the response. They do not violate it.

Test airspace or violate airspace? Do you understand the difference? I'll tell you, there isn't one.

I didn't say anything stupid and you tried to create a link between what I said, and yoga. I'm going to go with; you said something stupid.

If you think there is no difference you are a fool. One you come CLOSE to another nations airspace, but do not enter it, the other you actually enter it. One is fine, one is not.

They do enter it, regularly.

WRONG. The ministry of defence has stated that Russian planes have never violated UK airspace, they just come provocatively close. That would be close over the sea as in 12 miles from the coast.

Turkey is different they violated Turkish air space over land armed with missiles.

The Russians are wrong they were warned and it was not the first time, they deserve what they purposely provoked. The aggressive and incorrect actions of the Russians in Syria is being increasingly exposed and the pro Putin people here on ATS are having a severe attack of Cognitive Dissonance. It is going to get a damn site worse when other countries send their planes in as well.....UK next....Jesus H.

Well said , hear hear !!!

a reply to: asen_y2k

You've got a general who says it was due to an "incursion". The US might have to get it's story straight.

www.washingtontimes.com...

a reply to: andy06shake

They were both shot to death while parachuting in the air and landed dead. There's picture circling around of one of their corpse, so one of the pilot been identified already.

originally posted by: Gin
a reply to: bjarneorn

This is the area where CNN Turk claims their airspace was violated. It's 2.7km wide. Let's go with a really low number, assuming the SU was cruising at a leisurely 600km/h. That's 16 seconds to cross this distance. And in that time they supposed warned the aircraft minutes long and with 10 seperate messages. They really had to had their timing down. That plane was max 20 seconds in Turkey. You can't fly like 1 km behind SU-24s gotta be at least 5 km out. Sidewinders go at about 920 meters per second. So they had a good 10~15 seconds to legally shoot it down in turkey
.

According to Turkish military...multiple sites links

A Turkish military statement said the plane entered Turkish airspace over the town of Yayladagi, in Hatay province.

This town of Yayladagi is not in the radar map area, it is northwest. See map in my earlier post, page 37.

So how can they say t2 different things? Something's wrong.

originally posted by: angryhulk
Turkey isn't doing itself any favours here.

Here's the rub.

If the jets were warned multiple times, and did not respond then they deserve to be shot down.

In today's age even ISIS could have stole, bought, or even got hold of a Russian fighter jet somehow, so it would have been standard military protocol to respond to warnings.

I see this as a stupid mistake on Russia's part, especially if they are fighting the same enemy.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
So let me get this straight. Turkey shoots down a Russian fighter jet near the Syrian border, the parachuting Russian pilots get shot by ISIS.

Turkey is responsible for aiding and abetting the death of Russian military personnel by the hands of terrorists.

Well NATO, I hope you knew what you were doing when you fast-tracked Ergodan ruthless and clearly stupid regime.

You forgot the helicopter.

The Turks could have waited until the plane left its airspace,Turks are evil anti-semites anyways.Erdogan is a terrible anti-semite evil man that pretends to be good.
How the heck this nation was allowed in NATO when they mass murdered Armenian christians in the millions is more proof how stupid the failure of NATO realy is.

a reply to: Gin

That's poor form anyway you wish to slice it. Shame on whomever is responsible for such an atrocity government and rebel alike.

a reply to: Realtruth

Look at Gin's post. A 10 minute warning? Really wonder they could if the plane was only about 20 seconds in their space.

Well, the US just released the official party line (which will also be NATO's) and the fault lies entirely with the Ruskies. They are to blame for everything. Not only that, but the Ruskies are exaggerating their achievements and downplaying civilian casualties.

So, there you are , the party line is out:

www.washingtontimes.com...

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Like I mentioned previously, I think that will be the result. All the NATO agreements won't mean jack, and the US (and other major NATO players) will dis-associate from Turkey as a result of this...

originally posted by: jmlima
Well, the US just released the official party line (which will also be NATO's) and the fault lies entirely with the Ruskies. They are to blame for everything. Not only that, but the Ruskies are exaggerating their achievements and downplaying civilian casualties.

So, there you are , the party line is out.

Do you have a link for where this was released? I believe you, would just be interested in reading more.

I'm not sure what to make of it, nevertheless, as someone who reckons something, I feel I must add my two pence.

Russian overflights of Turkey after repeated warnings are foolish. Turkey taking the opportunity to plug one is equally foolish.

I doubt much comes of it, to be honest. There will be a lot of gnashing teeth, but noone gains from a hot conflict between Russia and Turkey. Maybe the Kurds will get more support from Russia. Maybe Russia takes the opportunity to drop more bombs on western-supported rebel groups.


Syria is a quagmire of opposition groups and alliances/bloodfeuds among them. Equating "rebels" with ISIS is pretty ridiculous. There's too much to parse.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Who the F is talking about yoga?

You (and clearly the Turkish military) need to look at the bigger picture and get..a..grip.

You are, when you equate violating airspace and ignoring warnings as "Political correctness". It's not. If they violated the airspace they should have answered the warnings. If someone violates Scottish Airspace, and ignores multiple warnings, what do you want your airforce to do? I know what I want mine to do.

When did I speak about yoga? Have you lost your mind? Stick to the topic!

We liaise with Russian jets almost bi-monthly that violate our airpspace we do not shoot them down!

Already explained, my mind is not the problem here, I think you understand perfectly well and want to play the fool because the alternative would be to admit you said something stupid.

Russian bombers test airspace, they come close to test the response. They do not violate it.

Test airspace or violate airspace? Do you understand the difference? I'll tell you, there isn't one.

I didn't say anything stupid and you tried to create a link between what I said, and yoga. I'm going to go with; you said something stupid.

If you think there is no difference you are a fool. One you come CLOSE to another nations airspace, but do not enter it, the other you actually enter it. One is fine, one is not.

They do enter it, regularly.

WRONG. The ministry of defence has stated that Russian planes have never violated UK airspace, they just come provocatively close. That would be close over the sea as in 12 miles from the coast.

Turkey is different they violated Turkish air space over land armed with missiles.

The Russians are wrong they were warned and it was not the first time, they deserve what they purposely provoked. The aggressive and incorrect actions of the Russians in Syria is being increasingly exposed and the pro Putin people here on ATS are having a severe attack of Cognitive Dissonance. It is going to get a damn site worse when other countries send their planes in as well.....UK next....Jesus H.

Well said , hear hear !!!

I don't think it's pro Putin to be extremely wary of Turkey who's government is every bit as bad as Russia if not worse since members are actually influenced by radicals. They are every bit if not more repressive to their people as Russia.

Second England doesn't have a finger of its country in a war zone where terrorists just blew a passenger plane out of the sky.

a reply to: mr-lizard

Now I'm beginning to think Turkey have made a HUGE mistake

You wouldn't be the only one.

It's a delicate situation, however if proof can be obtained by unbiased sources then the Turkish air force has some explaining to do.

But assuming this is true then i'd love to be a fly on the wall in the White House. Obamas response could paint a picture and a lack of words could tell a tale.

originally posted by: SonOfThor

originally posted by: jmlima
Well, the US just released the official party line (which will also be NATO's) and the fault lies entirely with the Ruskies. They are to blame for everything. Not only that, but the Ruskies are exaggerating their achievements and downplaying civilian casualties.

So, there you are , the party line is out.

Do you have a link for where this was released? I believe you, would just be interested in reading more.

Here you go:

www.zerohedge.com...

www.washingtontimes.com...

a reply to: asen_y2k

not really...

Pentagon backs Turkey’s version of events, blames ‘incursion’ of Russian jet

a reply to: asen_y2k

Looks like the US us already distancing itself from Turkey:


"This is an incident between the Russian and the Turkish governments. It is not an issue that involves the (US-led coalition operations)," Warren told a Pentagon briefing, via video-conference from Baghdad. - Sky

Didn't Saddam say that the US gave him the OK to go into Kuwait to stop them from lateral drilling and then the baby incubator stories to allow the US to invade the first time ?

originally posted by: Belgianbloke
a reply to: Realtruth

Look at Gin's post. A 10 minute warning? Really wonder they could if the plane was only about 20 seconds in their space.

Is it possible that the 10 warnings happened while the Russian plane was being tracked on a course heading for the Turkish border, that it would be fired upon if it crossed the border?

Just offering an alternative view.