Johns Hopkins Scientist Reveals Shocking Report on Flu Vaccines

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: rickymouse

I have been ill since May with sinusitis and bronchitis. The antibiotics my GP prescribed for the first time ever have not worked despite 2 lots. The only thing that worked were the side effects in duplicate.

I have always refused the flu vaccine and only know one person who has it regularly and it works. However I should say she lives in an isolated place and rarely mixes especially in the winter. All the regulars have had flu. I have only had flu once in my life, never again if I can avoid it but its the other illnesses that debilitate one which perhaps people associate as the flu. Most of these conditions antibiotics are dispensed to clear up - so its hard to tell the difference because the 1 remedy fits a lot of conditions.

I can't honestly figure out whether its because I just see a scam backed up by odd reports advising these vaccines are pretty ineffective - e.g. wrong strain or other etc - or whether I just try not to be a Patsy for big business.

To clear my sinusitis I have had to resort to a herbal remedy, with historic use through the naturapathic line of doctors which is Goldenseal, bought over the net because, our government has tried to ban/stop all naturopathic remedies. I also suffered no side effects.

I have figured how to fix all my headaches except for sinus headaches. If I drink milk I get a headache in the sinuses, I found that fresh pineapple cures the headache within ten minutes from milk. Also grapefruit cures it. It contains bromelaine which is absorbed and breaks down the milk proteins in the blood so they can be dealt with better. At least that is what I think is what is happening from researching it. I got bromelaine pills but they do not work quite as good as fresh pineapple or grapefruit. But there are also other proteinases in the fruits mentioned along with the bromelaine.

All I know for sure is that it works. Found that out by accident and now it is one of the things I use regularly. Now the sinus headaches I get from changing air pressure, the pineapple does not work on that, it is not a mucus issue, it is a different problem. I have not figured that out yet and the headaches are similar to the ones I get from the milk but it is not the same solution. I used to pop a triaminicin and it would get rid of those headaches, but they don't make that OTC medicine anymore and other sinus pills make it worse.

I had a flu shot back in seventy four and got the sickest I have ever been with flu like symptoms. About eighty four a doctor convinced me to take one saying they were now better and I got very sick from it. I will never take another flu shot and all my doctors since then said I should not take one except the last one I had and have now left for a new doctor who kept trying to convince me to take a flu shot. I constantly had to tell her no and she looked at me as if I was a fool. I wish she would get as sick as I do from those shots, she would have a complete change of attitude.

I haven't had the flu at all, except for flu symptoms similar to the flu when I had the shot. I do not know if it was an overreaction or what it was. It does not matter anyway. I would get bronchitis often, but went back and checked all my records of meds over thirty years a few years ago. The only times I got bronchitis and pleuricy I was on Beta blockers which I had to discontinue because of side effects with thinking. I have since found out what was causing the tachychardia attacks, they were AFIB attacks triggered from eating too much nitrogen containing food chemistry. I still have the one twenty heart rate but haven't had any over one seventy in about three years now. My heart can beat at around two ten and not miss a beat, I don't even start feeling good till it gets up to one sixty. Once it goes above two thirty, it gets erratic and I used to go see the doctor and get meds which did nothing for my condition. Now I have found out what is causing it and I can control that.

I do not have any health problems, I just got some inconveniences which I continuously learn more of how to control. I do have the Temporal lobe epilepsy which is a pain now because controling it makes my lifelong inconveniences more of a pain because the chemistry needed to control it is in direct conflict with my genetics and causes some problems. I will figure it out someday, I have lots of time to research.

a reply to: chr0naut

I have noticed that people who get shots, are in general more sick, more out of shape, more likely to age quicker, eat worse, and are in general are more fearful about everything that comes along.

The people who do NOT get shots, are healthy, have far more energy, are more likely to look younger, work out, lead a driven life.

Since I stopped taking shots my life has U-Turned into health, before I would get sick to the point of death RIGHT AFTER the dam shots, my immune system clearly does not like whatever is in those shots, and this is all documented.....since I was born everytime I got vaccines I nearly died, as they almost COMPLETELY annihilated my response, and altered significantly the way my body reacted to just about EVERYTHING.

Science is pathetic in this field, STOP TELLING EVERYONE THEY ARE THE SAME, WHEN CLEARLY THIS IS THE FARTHEST THING FROM THE TRUTH.

And therefore, STOP GIVING EVERYONE THE SAME DAM SHOTS, that are CLEARLY affecting ALOT of people in a very negative way, that the so-called medical authorities are SO DAM SCARED to admit is going on.

I like coming to ats to see peoples reactions to statements on controversial issues. The subject of vaccinations is at the top of the list for riling up peoples beliefs on what they have read, heard, felt or think they know about this particular subject. Hospitals , nurses, doctors, media and the likes will tell you to get the jab. Hell even the law now says to some to get the jab. When I see the commercials on the television for the pharma pills and the side effects its almost unbelievable. Why dont they put the commercials for the vaccinations on the television with all the side effects? What theres no side effects? There completely safe because someone who profits from the sale tells you there safe? Why is it that people who get the flu shot get more sick than people who dont get it. Yet those same people tell you that they dont get it as bad as someone who doesnt get the flu shot. There repeating what there doctor told them. I should have been a doctor. I heard selling drugs makes good money.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: demongoat

originally posted by: luthier


What are you talking about? I didnt say to look up active or passive. Active is from virus passive from mom. I didnt say that. You said "what is adaptive immunity". I said look it up.

people just throw that term out like they know what it means, i don't think they do, do you know what it means?

Perfect situation? Like what just over 50 percent effective. Thats just barely a coin toss.

it's a fallacy, it means that you don't find it perfect so you reject it flat out, by the way please go read about what those percentages mean.
it's 50% effective over nothing, so you have a 50% chance more of being immune, 50% more is a coin toss?

Second do you understand drifts and shifts? The vaccine will not protect against a shift until people get sick and then they need time to produce a vaccine. You may have some protection from a drift but might not have any.

yes i do, and why is this a problem? this is how adaptation works, you can't know about something until you are aware of it, come on now this is a weak issue to raise.
drifts are close enough that most of the time they will be covered by vaccines. it's shifts, sudden changes that defeat vaccines.

Getting sick means your exposure to the virus is much longer than a vaccine meaning longer and more robust immunity.

no it's not, that is silly. your immune system doesn't know the difference between a live virus and the proteins from a vaccine, this is why we even bother with vaccines. the length of time immunity lasts has nothing to do with how the trigger to the resistance or immunity is delivered, your body doesn't know the difference. it lasts until you stop getting exposed and the memory cells die off.

your immune system is as robust as your over-all health, how the virus gets inside is irrelevant, where did you get the idea that how you get the virus matters?

The average aduly gets the flu 2 times in 30 years. Is that enough for the government to spend millions on vaccines? Maybe. I dont think so though.

no the typical adult over 30 gets the flu twice every 10 years, this is typical not every adult. i am an adult and i have diabetes type II and i will die if i don't receive medical attention if i get the flu.
children and the elderly are even more susceptible to it, children because they are around more people and elderly because their immune systems are weakened from old age.

you don't think we should spend money to protect vulnerable people from a potentially deadly virus?

Dont worry a better one is coming in a few years and then we will both agree.

Oh and both i and my children have vaccines. Just not chicken pox or the flu.

yeah i've read about the genetic modifications.

You are completely misrepresenting everything i said.

You should get your shot just like i said. I dont need one.

Sorry buddy but getting sick and your immune response is a normal part of building immunity. The fever (metab increase), all of it is necessary to maintain a healthy immune system for most people. If you have no ill effects of the virus after your illness your body will have gone through the whole process of fighting a virus or cold which is very beneficial for you not harmful as you have pulled out of thin air.

You do realize the immune system is not just about immunity but your body being able to fight off illness in general right? What you are saying is as long as you have the right vaccine its the same. Possibly. what i am saying is the immune system is more than the antigens. Its all the barriors and your bodies ability to get the whole system working not to mention your t cells dont learn very fast. Hence needing your boosters.

It also means it has a 50 percent chance of not working right? What about if you had naturally had the flu? What are your chances of getting it again? How much does it need to drift before getting it again?

It is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines. Whereas immunity from disease often follows a single, natural infection, immunity from vaccines occurs only after several doses.” [6]Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia

And another interesting read about infection rate of natural 9 percent vs vaccine 23 percent of the flu.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

The fact that you have to contract the infection to gain "natural immunity", albeit partial, sort of wrecks your point though doesn't it?
What it doesn't mention is morbidity or co-morbidities rates from the previous recent infection.
Also, the article is 26 years old. You may find more recent research done on this if you care to look around.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
a reply to: chr0naut

I have noticed that people who get shots, are in general more sick, more out of shape, more likely to age quicker, eat worse, and are in general are more fearful about everything that comes along.

The people who do NOT get shots, are healthy, have far more energy, are more likely to look younger, work out, lead a driven life.

Since I stopped taking shots my life has U-Turned into health, before I would get sick to the point of death RIGHT AFTER the dam shots, my immune system clearly does not like whatever is in those shots, and this is all documented.....since I was born everytime I got vaccines I nearly died, as they almost COMPLETELY annihilated my response, and altered significantly the way my body reacted to just about EVERYTHING.

Science is pathetic in this field, STOP TELLING EVERYONE THEY ARE THE SAME, WHEN CLEARLY THIS IS THE FARTHEST THING FROM THE TRUTH.

And therefore, STOP GIVING EVERYONE THE SAME DAM SHOTS, that are CLEARLY affecting ALOT of people in a very negative way, that the so-called medical authorities are SO DAM SCARED to admit is going on.

I have noticed that, in general, people who are anti-vax tend to gravitate towards being anti-science and pro-conspiracy.
Coincidence?
Confirmation bias?
You tell me.

I've never taken the flu vaccine and I've never had the flu.We did this weird thing when I was kid called playing outside.
Today's kids are in a state of quarantine where their immune system doesn't get a chance to develop.That and the outrageous amount of vaccinations they receive while still babies.

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: demongoat

originally posted by: luthier


What are you talking about? I didnt say to look up active or passive. Active is from virus passive from mom. I didnt say that. You said "what is adaptive immunity". I said look it up.

people just throw that term out like they know what it means, i don't think they do, do you know what it means?

Perfect situation? Like what just over 50 percent effective. Thats just barely a coin toss.

it's a fallacy, it means that you don't find it perfect so you reject it flat out, by the way please go read about what those percentages mean.
it's 50% effective over nothing, so you have a 50% chance more of being immune, 50% more is a coin toss?

Second do you understand drifts and shifts? The vaccine will not protect against a shift until people get sick and then they need time to produce a vaccine. You may have some protection from a drift but might not have any.

yes i do, and why is this a problem? this is how adaptation works, you can't know about something until you are aware of it, come on now this is a weak issue to raise.
drifts are close enough that most of the time they will be covered by vaccines. it's shifts, sudden changes that defeat vaccines.

Getting sick means your exposure to the virus is much longer than a vaccine meaning longer and more robust immunity.

no it's not, that is silly. your immune system doesn't know the difference between a live virus and the proteins from a vaccine, this is why we even bother with vaccines. the length of time immunity lasts has nothing to do with how the trigger to the resistance or immunity is delivered, your body doesn't know the difference. it lasts until you stop getting exposed and the memory cells die off.

your immune system is as robust as your over-all health, how the virus gets inside is irrelevant, where did you get the idea that how you get the virus matters?

The average aduly gets the flu 2 times in 30 years. Is that enough for the government to spend millions on vaccines? Maybe. I dont think so though.

no the typical adult over 30 gets the flu twice every 10 years, this is typical not every adult. i am an adult and i have diabetes type II and i will die if i don't receive medical attention if i get the flu.
children and the elderly are even more susceptible to it, children because they are around more people and elderly because their immune systems are weakened from old age.

you don't think we should spend money to protect vulnerable people from a potentially deadly virus?

Dont worry a better one is coming in a few years and then we will both agree.

Oh and both i and my children have vaccines. Just not chicken pox or the flu.

yeah i've read about the genetic modifications.

You are completely misrepresenting everything i said.

You should get your shot just like i said. I dont need one.

Sorry buddy but getting sick and your immune response is a normal part of building immunity. The fever (metab increase), all of it is necessary to maintain a healthy immune system for most people. If you have no ill effects of the virus after your illness your body will have gone through the whole process of fighting a virus or cold which is very beneficial for you not harmful as you have pulled out of thin air.

You do realize the immune system is not just about immunity but your body being able to fight off illness in general right? What you are saying is as long as you have the right vaccine its the same. Possibly. what i am saying is the immune system is more than the antigens. Its all the barriors and your bodies ability to get the whole system working not to mention your t cells dont learn very fast. Hence needing your boosters.

It also means it has a 50 percent chance of not working right? What about if you had naturally had the flu? What are your chances of getting it again? How much does it need to drift before getting it again?

It is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines. Whereas immunity from disease often follows a single, natural infection, immunity from vaccines occurs only after several doses.” [6]Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia

And another interesting read about infection rate of natural 9 percent vs vaccine 23 percent of the flu.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

The fact that you have to contract the infection to gain "natural immunity", albeit partial, sort of wrecks your point though doesn't it?
What it doesn't mention is morbidity or co-morbidities rates from the previous recent infection.
Also, the article is 26 years old. You may find more recent research done on this if you care to look around.

Is the scientific paper (not article) no longer valid? Can you find good studies without a conflict of interest that disproves it? Otherwise its just a genetic fallacy on your part.

What is the mortality rate of healthy people under the age of 65 without exsisting medical conditions? I am just wondering if you have any science on that or are just making assumptions?

I am not against vaccines. However because of the speed this virus drifts and the currwnt structure of the vaccine the herd mantality here doesnt work. Thr flu mutates regionally and airplanes bring the virus to all over the globe. Not to mention the shift uses interspecies merging of two strains. Which the vaccine is not effective at providing immunity to. Even the drifts bring the effectiveness way down which is why you can get sick later in the season.

Not a lot of data for the public that doesnt come from literary studies from drug company trials. Not a lot of lab and blood work independent studies out there easy to obtain by imdependent sources.

People flocked to the polio vaccine because it worked. This vaccine requires constant promotion because like last year the flu shot is often completely useless.

Did a lot of healthy people die last year from the flu? How many people in the mortality rate of the flu die anyway from something besides the flu in a relatively close proximity timeline?

Sorry but until they have success genetically altering the flu to make it effective like a vaccine that doesnt require yearly educated guesses by the cdc i dont need it. Nobody i know has died from the flu.

How dare anybody question what they put in there body....

I should load my kid up with adderol too because some studies show it has temporary benefits......drs tell people to give their kids speed even though long term studies show it doesnt work over time....yet most of the medical community supports it because....KaaChing it makes a lot of money. Forgive me for questioning the flawless medical community.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Great post!

I have friends who give me a hard time because I won't get a flu shot yet these same friends get it yearly as do their kids and guess what? They ALL end up sick and one of my friends her little one has ended up in the hospital TWICE after a flu shot!!

I agree yes the main ones you mentioned are needed but there are so many that just come out of nowhere lately. When I go to the pharmacy they are pushing them like candy, free shots!! I'm like no I'll pass.

originally posted by: TonyS
Thanks for sharing this information. Like you, neither my wife or I have ever gotten the flu shot.

I would guess however that with the Federalization of the US Health Care system, the day is coming when getting the flu shot will no longer be optional. Perhaps that will be a good thing, after all, who are we to claim special exemption? And if we won't be allowed special exemption, no one should be granted any exemptions. Its just a matter of time, really.

Who are we to claim special exemption? We are individuals with control over our own bodies...that why we should be able to claim exemption from ANY medical procedure or medicine that we decide we don't want done to or put into our bodies.

originally posted by: Jekka
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Measles are not something that is easily survivable,...

Wrong.

...mumps are incredibly painful and serious...

CAN BE incredibly painful and serious. Before the "vaccine era," 15%-27% of cases of mumps were asymptomatic ("they" don't have a number for modern times). The infected showed zero symptoms from the disease, such as parotitis (the most common complication at 31%-65%, depending on age), orchitis (sounds terrible, affecting 3.3%-10% of post-pubescent males), oophoritis (affecting at or less than 1% of post-pubescent females), meningitis (affecting between 0.02%-0.3% of people infected with mumps), and other things that you can read for yourself at this CDC source.

My point being that, while the infections can cause painful inflammation in the body and other complications, it appears that the likelihood of that happening is relatively acceptable and absolutely temporary.

When I discuss a NEED for a vaccine, I always mention the disease causing a probably death or permanent complications. The probability of measles and mumps doing that are very, very low. You don't need a vaccination for those diseases, people just want them because they think it's better for their bodies not to contract the disease than to fight it. I would argue against that, especially with measles...I haven't researched enough about natural-versus-artificial immunity concerning mumps to have an intelligent decision on that one.

...and Rubella, particularly Scarlet Fever can negatively impact your immune system for life if you get over it.

From the CDC again:

Complications of rubella are not common, but they generally occur more often in adults than in children.

Arthralgia or arthritis may occur in up to 70% of adult women who contract rubella, but it is rare in children and adult males. Fingers, wrists, and knees are often affected. Joint symptoms tend to occur about the same time or shortly after appearance of the rash and may last for up to 1 month; chronic arthritis is rare.

Encephalitis occurs in one in 6,000 cases, more frequently in adults (especially in females) than in children. Mortality estimates vary from 0 to 50%. (I don't know how/why they have such a dramatic difference in estimates)

Hemorrhagic manifestations occur in approximately one per 3,000 cases, occurring more often in children than in adults. These manifestations may be secondary to low platelets and vascular damage, with thrombocytopenic purpura being the most common manifestation. Gastrointestinal, cerebral, or intrarenal hemorrhage may occur. Effects may last from days to months, and most patients recover.

Additional complications include orchitis, neuritis, and a rare late syndrome of progressive panencephalitis.

So as you can see, even major complications from rubella are rare. While some of them may be severe, even if they are, they are generally temporary.

Maybe you see me as playing Russian roulette with these possibly severe complications, but I don't see it that way, as I'm always told by my doctors about my exceptional level of health, and whenever I'm sick, my body fights it off days faster than most people and my symptoms are generally less severe (although when I contracted Mono about 15 years ago, the doctor said it was the worse case he had ever seen...I was in bed like a dead man for about 3 days, but then I recovered quickly and was back to work within a week of the diagnosis--had to, I was in the Army and they didn't authorize me any more days off).

All I'm saying is that the true, extreme complications from any of the MMR diseases are rare and generally temporary. Plus, couple that with the fact that I live in the U.S. and have access to great health care, and my chances of surviving even extreme complications are relatively decent.

I've always lived my life with the philosophy that the least amount of medicines that I can shove in my body, the better. When I have to, I do, but I prefer not to. It's worked out well for me so far.

The flu vaccine is only a few degrees shy of snake oil as far as I'm concerned and the chickenpox vaccine is all but useless in 99% of the population because most of us can survive it without ill effect.

On this we agree, but keep in mind that, statistically speaking, 99% of the population will survive any of the MMR diseases without lasting ill effect, too.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Vaccines work similiar to Antivenom. it's the curse that helps the cure.

If I was bitten by a rattlesnake, then the antivenene will contain rattlesnake venom-that's why people 'milk' snakes-they don't it as a hobby.

Of course you will feel terrible because that thing that wants to hurt you can make you feel terrible. When you get flu symptoms from a flu shot it's because the flu helped make the vaccine to start with.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

The flu shot does not contain live viruses, therefore the shot itself does not cause flu-like symptoms (supposedly). The nasal spray vaccine does have live viruses in it, but again, they are supposedly weakened to a point that it only stimulates the immune system to create antibodies, but the virus itself isn't supposed to be able to cause the flu.

So, no, it's not the vaccines (again, "supposedly") that cause flu-like symptoms after getting the vaccine--well, at least it's not the viruses contained within the shots.

Supposedly.

a reply to: Kapusta

I stopped getting the flu shot when I read about it the first year I lurked on ATS... Haven't had the flu since 2009

Weird that no flu shots, gave me the flu........

But then again, it's called a "flu" shot. Think about that for a min

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Well antivenene can save lives, If antivenom was portrayed as dangerous as an influenza vaccination then people would die.

Influenza kills as well, look at the spanish flu outbreak-but where was their vaccinations?

Yo! Don't bother with Pardon? he's a straight up pro-vax shill. If you look at his activity you'll see all he does is troll vax threads. Here's my last encounter with him:
ATS Vax Thread

It doesn't matter how much evidence you present, or how reliable the sources are, he will respond like you're nuts to question vaccines.

Debate at your own risk.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Both of those points are known, but really don't pertain to my comments.

But rattlesnake antivenin isn't without its risks as well:

SIDE EFFECTS

Immediate systemic reactions (allergic reactions or anaphylaxis) can occur whenever a horse-serum-containing product is administered. An immediate reaction (e.g. shock, anaphylaxis) usually occurs within 30 minutes. Symptoms and signs may develop before the needle is withdrawn and may include apprehension, flushing, itching, urticaria; edema of the face, tongue, and throat; cough, dyspnea, cyanosis, vomiting, and collapse. There have been isolated reports of cardiac arrest and death associated with Antivenin (Crotalidae) Polyvalent (equine origin) use. However, serious immediate reactions to Antivenin are rare. In skin-test-negative patients, Antivenin caused a true immediate sensitivity reaction in less than 1 percent of patients"

All I'm saying is that everything incurs a risk when putting foreign objects into one's body. I'll take my chances with contracting the flu--I'm sure I'd welcome some antivenin if I were to be bitten by a rattlesnake. But then again, that goes back to some of my comments made about likely outcomes and weighing the need for the medication.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
Yo! Don't bother with Pardon? he's a straight up pro-vax shill. If you look at his activity you'll see all he does is troll vax threads. Here's my last encounter with him:
ATS Vax Thread

It doesn't matter how much evidence you present, or how reliable the sources are, he will respond like you're nuts to question vaccines.

Debate at your own risk.

Haha thanks. Its ok. People expose themselves through dialogue. I have some formal training in debate so I am not too scared.

a reply to: luthier

I've been vaccinated against fear of debating...but it gave me a fear of public speaking.

Where does AIDS come from? How come it appeared all of a sudden during the vietnam war times? Is it maybe a biological weapon?

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
Yo! Don't bother with Pardon? he's a straight up pro-vax shill. If you look at his activity you'll see all he does is troll vax threads. Here's my last encounter with him:
ATS Vax Thread

It doesn't matter how much evidence you present, or how reliable the sources are, he will respond like you're nuts to question vaccines.

Debate at your own risk.

I'm flattered I've made such an impact on you.

But the shill gambit?
Really?
I thought you were better than that (not that you showed you were, just that I'm the type of person who sees good in everyone).