Something very wrong with the migrant/refugee train in hungry

originally posted by: dawnstar
to me it kind of looks more like a hostage situation or something, like the men are demanding something and are refusing to allow the relief for the women and children....using them for bargaining leverage...
either that or they have reason, founded or unfounded to believe that the water and food have been tampered with?

It looks pretty strange. In the past in some refugee camps, mafias or organized crime groups would set the administration, or become it, sotospeak. If you want to call outside you have to pay or be in debt to them.

Although here it seems like all the men are outside and women and children are inside, more like a standoff than anything else.

a reply to: kamatty

Whats the story on what caused the mass exodus? Sorry I haven't been keeping up with the times. When you see people acting like that though, it looks more like one of the rebel factions lost their power looking for somewhere else to wage a war, and left because of that, rather than people seeking peace from a war zone.

Im just wondering if its similar to a few other refugee drops where gangsters and warlords were the first ones on to the buses, but even then I don't think they argued about where they were going.

a reply to: kamatty

You think that's bad? I saw one where a man threw his wife holding their infant onto the tracks in protest and held himself to her while police were trying to pull them off. He was literally biting onto her garments as police tore him away.

originally posted by: doobydoll
Cameron has agreed to take more refugees, but only from amongst those registered and living in refugee camps near the Syrian border and living in danger. We're not taking any of those already in Europe because they are already safe from war.

I never thought I would ever agree with Cameron for all eternity, but in this instance I think he's right.

Me in agreement with Cameron? - quick, get me some smelling salts.

You perfectly took the words out of my mouth. Thank you.

This video makes me sad. I mainly feel sad for the kids, who seem to gladly accept the aid. I also feel sad for those handing out the food and water, as they look confused and at times some-what afraid of the people refusing the aid. I also feel sad for the refugees, maybe they have a reason to be angry, but why refuse food and water??

This is a bad situation all around...This is going to get worse as the world economy and wars get worse.

I wasn't alive during WWII, but I can imagine this type of "scent" in the air was present then, up to and including the point where all hell finally broke lose.

a reply to: kamatty

This is not surprising at the very least, this video footage is a good representation of the Middle East mentality, stupidity and ungratefulness, big egos wanting things done their own ways only... and willing to deprive other people's goals and needs for the sake of promoting their own agendas...

They are being like THIS now.
what will they be like when they get there?
They will Take what they want...

i have a perfect solution for how to separate the genuine refugees from the opportunists: Give priority to women, children, elderly and men with families FIRST......then move on to single young women then single young men last.


what you think ATS?

originally posted by: kamatty
a reply to: grainofsand

It will be worrying and shocking if they are allowed to travel through to germany without registering. i can't see it happening as it will show the hundreds of thousands trying to get into europe what they need to do to get in.

Is it not 'worrying and shocking' that they are already refusing to register in Hungary and forcing their way through that country to Austria?
You do realise that Hungary is part of the EU yeah? These people are already in Europe, already safe, but refusing to register because they are being picky about the safe nation they wish to claim asylum in.
Clashing with police, throwing water and food away in protest, all because they want to go to Germany instead of accepting shelter in Hungary.

Yeah, real law abiding folk (not) I'm glad the UK is not part of the Schengen agreement.
The majority of folk in the news feeds seem to be young adult males who are angry because they cannot move to the safe EU nation of their choice, yeah, cry me a river.

Here's a solution. Why doesn't each European country take in 20,000 able bodied young men, Train them to fight, arm them to the teeth, then like our own army does with our own able bodied young men, after six months send them home to take the country of their birth back.

I'm sure with the proper training and military hardware and back up they could give anyone in the middle east a run for their money.
At least this way we could vet who we give arms to over there, unlike the past when we just chucked billions of £££'s at faceless somewhat dubious groups and hoped we backed the right horsey. ???

Our elected leaders appear short of ideas so i just thought i would throw one out there.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Here's a solution. Why doesn't each European country take in 20,000 able bodied young men, Train them to fight, arm them to the teeth, then like our own army does with our own able bodied young men, after six months send them home to take the country of their birth back.

I'm sure with the proper training and military hardware and back up they could give anyone in the middle east a run for their money.
At least this way we could vet who we give arms to over there, unlike the past when we just chucked billions of £££'s at faceless somewhat dubious groups and hoped we backed the right horsey. ???

Our elected leaders appear short of ideas so i just thought i would throw one out there.

We find agreement Solo, although I would set up the military training camps in Turkey, no need for them to come to the UK.
Worried about Turkey paying for it? Don't, I'd be happy for an extra 2% in income tax to pay for it - and for information purposes that would raise around £11 Billion from the UK alone.

There is no need for them to leave the region and be scattered around the EU never to return.
I bet if that training/shelter in Turkey option was offered that not many of them would choose it. They angry young men on news feeds aren't happy with Hungary and are clashing with police as it is. They don't seem to be the types who wish to defend their country.

a reply to: boncho

I'd be interested in this also. I haven't been keeping up either I am afraid, and well, if I were to take a guess with what I do know, I would guess that it all traces back to the US involvement in the middle east, leaving a vacuum that allowed ISIS to rise up out of.

would I be right here?

originally posted by: doobydoll
If they were concerned about such things they wouldn't have gone there in the first place.

So you blame all the Jews for their own murder, because they didn't have the psychic ability to know beforehand what they were walking into?

originally posted by: doobydoll
Whichever country they're heading for will expect them to register, otherwise how can those nations help them if they don't know who or where they are?

And they will register, it hasn't been suggested that they won't. They are not refusing to register in Germany.

originally posted by: doobydoll
Are they going to kick off again when they are asked to register upon arrival at their country of destination? I can see this situation escalating out of control if they continue to refuse procedure.

No, because they didn't leave Hungary because they needed to register, they left Hungary because that country is exhibiting the same xenophobia you are. These people are choosing Germany because the people there are HUMANITARIANS, unlike throughout the rest of Europe right now.

originally posted by: doobydoll
Why would any civilised nation be comfortable with accepting hundreds of thousands of foreigners

And the fact that you "fear the foreigner" rather than call these people what they are (Humans, refugees escaping war and persecution) perfectly explains what your real motivations and attitudes are.
As long as we're seeing this ignorant form of nationalism, where anyone "other" is deemed a threat, nothing is going to change.
Thankfully, Germany and Austria don't have a citizen population with the same ignorant fear of people of other nationalities.

originally posted by: doobydoll
The first thing they learned in Europe has been that they don't have to do anything they don't want, even if it's the law of the land. The second thing they're learning is that no-one and nothing is going to stop them, because they're on the march to Austria in the thousands as we speak, most of whom are men.

Thanks for clarifying your ignorance once again.
These people have risked their lives to escape a country (when the most you need to do is make sure you don't get hit by a bus crossing the street) so the notion that all they're looking for is an easy ride is obviously nothing more than the usual right-wing propaganda.

originally posted by: doobydoll
I sympathise with war refugees greatly, but not with those whom behave this way.

No, you really don't, if you did then you would recognize that the majority of these people are blameless. These are people who were living their lives in safety before this, NOT risking their lives fleeing to Europe for "free handouts" as you would like to claim.

If those claiming these people are not refugees can explain to me why they were not flooding into Europe BEFORE the war, then please tell me. If you want to claim that these people are looking for more than just safety and they had no need to come to Europe, please explain to me why they all miraculously chose a time of massive civil war in their country to come to Europe.

Once again, the ignorance, racism, xenophobia and blatant inhumanity of some on this forum is truly sickening.

originally posted by: kamatty
If the rich Muslim countries dont want to help there brothers and sisters then i say come to europe and join us here, we migjr not be muslims but we are still your brothers and sisters.

Imagine the change this is going to cause in the future, amongst an entire generation of people who might otherwise have hated anything outside of their own closed and deeply religious community.

No one seems to be mentioning this, and perhaps because there are more important things to worry about right now, but the images and stories of Europeans helping so many is going to change a lot of attitudes.

It's going to be real hard for those militants and psychopaths to convince people that the West is so "evil" with all this evidence of our Humanitarian nature.

It might be cynical to suggest it, but I hope our governments capitalize on this goodwill in the future. There should be a massive effort to spread media of what's happening throughout these war-torn countries and show the people enduring extremist rule that their militant psychopaths have nothing to offer.

a reply to: boncho

It seems strange I think because it's against Western ethics. See in the US there would have been no guys on the train it would have been women and children. The guys would have stayed to fight for their country. This situation is entirely different bunch if young guys and kids this I think shocks the the way we think about it. They are perceived as cowards instead of refugees.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Thank you for clearing things up with your recent posts, i started typing many times this morning but was unable to find words that counter against stupid. Im not one who cares for stars however in this case it is a shame i can only give you one for each of your posts as a show of agreement with you.

Imagine the change this is going to cause in the future, amongst an entire generation of people who might otherwise have hated anything outside of their own closed and deeply religious community

We need this so humans can evolve from our current way of thinking and living.

originally posted by: buddha
They are being like THIS now.
what will they be like when they get there?
They will Take what they want...

The refugees will have what they want when they arrive, saftey and a country that is going out its way to welcome them.

originally posted by: Shuye
a reply to: kamatty

This is not surprising at the very least, this video footage is a good representation of the Middle East mentality, stupidity and ungratefulness, big egos wanting things done their own ways only... and willing to deprive other people's goals and needs for the sake of promoting their own agendas...

Your post is a good representation of western mentality. Judging all by the action of a few.....after watching a video online.

This thread is a shame. So much hate and fear, the propaganda machine really worked well on you guys.
Btw here is the reaction of locals when the first train arrives in Vienna.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: doobydoll
If they were concerned about such things they wouldn't have gone there in the first place.

So you blame all the Jews for their own murder, because they didn't have the psychic ability to know beforehand what they were walking into?

originally posted by: doobydoll
Whichever country they're heading for will expect them to register, otherwise how can those nations help them if they don't know who or where they are?

And they will register, it hasn't been suggested that they won't. They are not refusing to register in Germany.

originally posted by: doobydoll
Are they going to kick off again when they are asked to register upon arrival at their country of destination? I can see this situation escalating out of control if they continue to refuse procedure.

No, because they didn't leave Hungary because they needed to register, they left Hungary because that country is exhibiting the same xenophobia you are. These people are choosing Germany because the people there are HUMANITARIANS, unlike throughout the rest of Europe right now.

originally posted by: doobydoll
Why would any civilised nation be comfortable with accepting hundreds of thousands of foreigners

And the fact that you "fear the foreigner" rather than call these people what they are (Humans, refugees escaping war and persecution) perfectly explains what your real motivations and attitudes are.
As long as we're seeing this ignorant form of nationalism, where anyone "other" is deemed a threat, nothing is going to change.
Thankfully, Germany and Austria don't have a citizen population with the same ignorant fear of people of other nationalities.

originally posted by: doobydoll
The first thing they learned in Europe has been that they don't have to do anything they don't want, even if it's the law of the land. The second thing they're learning is that no-one and nothing is going to stop them, because they're on the march to Austria in the thousands as we speak, most of whom are men.

Thanks for clarifying your ignorance once again.
These people have risked their lives to escape a country (when the most you need to do is make sure you don't get hit by a bus crossing the street) so the notion that all they're looking for is an easy ride is obviously nothing more than the usual right-wing propaganda.

originally posted by: doobydoll
I sympathise with war refugees greatly, but not with those whom behave this way.

No, you really don't, if you did then you would recognize that the majority of these people are blameless. These are people who were living their lives in safety before this, NOT risking their lives fleeing to Europe for "free handouts" as you would like to claim.

If those claiming these people are not refugees can explain to me why they were not flooding into Europe BEFORE the war, then please tell me. If you want to claim that these people are looking for more than just safety and they had no need to come to Europe, please explain to me why they all miraculously chose a time of massive civil war in their country to come to Europe.

Once again, the ignorance, racism, xenophobia and blatant inhumanity of some on this forum is truly sickening.

Oh bore off for goodness sakes with your personal insults. Have you ever posted any comment without insults?

I agree we should be helping the refugees, but not all of them ARE refugees. Kos authorities in Greece are saying the registration and application process is slowed to a crawl because 60% of those arriving are genuine refugees, the rest are opportunistic 'country-shoppers' looking for the best deal. It's disgraceful that these opportunists are trying to steal the help intended for genuine refugees, they think their needs are more important than those fleeing for their lives, and maybe you do too seeing as you appear to be of the opinion that Europe should just let the lot in. I don't, I want the real refugees helped.

So where's your outrage at 40% of those people arriving that are pretending to be fleeing war, in the knowledge that each one that succeeds in their fraud means a real refugee has to remain in danger? Cheating everyone just for more money, cheating genuine refugees of the opportunity of a safe life, and deceiving our nations by taking the offer of refuge intended to rescue those whom are much worse off than themselves.

If they weren't so selfish 40% more real refugees could be helped to safety, and much, much quicker.