Fast food is an easy job everyone can do...

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: EvillerBob

Not when all the money is in a couple individuals hands and no one else is paid enough to PAY more in the first place.

Oh please don't bring the bigger picture into the conversation I can't grasp it.

So many narrow minded people have expressed their opinion here, the big picture is asking too much of these minds. It's a conspiracy !!

a reply to: jonnywhite

What exposure does anyone have to such a job, out of sight out of mind.

Do you really expect everyone to know what EVERY job is like?

Fast food, everyone knows about it, is exposed to it, and it's all over the media.

So yeah, I agree they need to be paid more, like I said, I'm talking about a lot more than JUST fast food used as the most well known example.

Also that kinda falls into my comments about crazy jobs that put tolls on people without the necessary benefits to upkeep the workforce that does said jobs.

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: doobydoll
Good grief.

Are you saying that if these fast-food places paid more that people would all be queuing to do them and no-one will want the better, cushier, degreed jobs?

Do you really think people will suddenly abandon their career/ambition/vocational calling if McD's pays a living wage?

What a fruiter.

Really not sure how you got that out of it.

The poster was pointing out that making this kind of low-end job a financially viable career would be counter-productive. It would discourage employees from trying to improve themselves and would also be insulting to the people who had busted a gut to get a good education and fought through an army of competing applicants to land a job, only to find themselves working at the same pay grade as the highschool dropout flipping burgers.

Who cares about the pay the win is you get have cushy office job and not back busting job in fast food. Are people discourage because athletes, actors, models etc with no education make much much much more than people with higher education mean people are not bothering to go to school? Does the fact a stripper makes more than College Professor mean people would prefer to be strippers? You want me to leave a desk and work fast food you better do a whole lot better than what I make already, I mean double to that miserable job.

a reply to: EvillerBob

but maybe they like that kind of work, and maybe they like it enough that they made themselves the best mc donald's worker in the state. maybe the customers know them and like them just as much... I mean we each have different personalities and although you and me might not have the personality to get into that kind of work, maybe someone else does. who knows maybe there's enough people out there like that who are willing to put their everything into it and do the best danged job they could. if someone is working in a job that they like, that they have worked hard enough to become very good at it, that is providing a service that obviously many in society likes or else the business wouldn't still exist, why should they have to "better" themselves? How many people like resturant work enough that they eventually open their own resturants and well the actual wage that is paid to waitresses is less than what mcdonalds pays their employees!!

a reply to: Morningglory
the economy is a complex system and well to sort out they many reasons why our cost of living continues to climb and how each factors in is probably next to impossible. Some point to our crazy banking system and the fed. some point to the cost of labor, but well, I will state right here and now, the gov't benefits programs play a role also in both the gov't needing more money printed up and more debt accumulated and the fact that in the end, it serves to allows the cost of living to rise higher and higher above what the society can bear without anyone really taking much note in it.

a reply to: dawnstar

this is the real world.
nobody likes working fast food.
maybe, and i mean maybe management but thats it.

a reply to: dawnstar

once again, this sounds like The Green Ribbon Society.



There, now the playing field is level. He spent all his time getting good at making Big Mac's. After that 10 minutes was over, he got his ribbon.

And what about the people who wade through the incredibly complex machinations needed to ensure that, at the end of the day, the clerk serving the Master Chef's burgers has a till that balances, despite the clerk not even knowing what the term "balances" even means.

originally posted by: Puppylove Yet your solution demand more from the people actually struggling while worshipping at the feet at those doing everything they can to keep more and more for themselves.

No it doesn't.

a reply to: gosseyn

The big picture is that in a world based on natural law, its pays to remember that squirrels don't store their acorns in huge, communal tree trunks, for the common good of all squirrels.

Altruism is a wonderful thing to attain to. But its like a Mexican standoff. The first person who blinks takes it in the gut. So until the folks on top blink....im gonna hold the trigger. The alternative: my kids go hungry. Philosophy doesn't feed them.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: EvillerBob

but maybe they like that kind of work, and maybe they like it enough that they made themselves the best mc donald's worker in the state. maybe the customers know them and like them just as much... I mean we each have different personalities and although you and me might not have the personality to get into that kind of work, maybe someone else does. who knows maybe there's enough people out there like that who are willing to put their everything into it and do the best danged job they could. if someone is working in a job that they like, that they have worked hard enough to become very good at it, that is providing a service that obviously many in society likes or else the business wouldn't still exist, why should they have to "better" themselves? How many people like resturant work enough that they eventually open their own resturants and well the actual wage that is paid to waitresses is less than what mcdonalds pays their employees!!

If they're happy and they love their job, good for them.

That doesn't magically transform a job that was never supposed to be more than just a low-wage position, into a job that would support them for life. Not even if they really, really loved it. If they took that love and put it into starting up their own business, or moving up in the existing company, then things could start to happen.

If you want to earn more, then you've got to do something more.

Yep and it should be paid as such.

Minimum wage. Stepping stone job.

Not a career. Not something to support a family with.

a reply to: EvillerBob
do you want me to list the reasons?
The town I grew up in once had orchards all over. Every summer the kids would go to work picking the apples and the migrants would come in to pick them....they really didn't make that much. The was a juice manufacturer in that area that would buy the apples and make apple juice out of it. Well the years went by, and we moved away. My husband spent some time driving truck while the economy went to crap and had an opportunity to make a delivery at this juice manufacturer. The delivery was from overseas and guess what it was! Apple juice concentrate!! Was it cheaper to ship it here from overseas? Heck no, not unless you took into consideration the nice tax perk they got for having a portion of their product made from the country that produced the concentrate! so one reason, I would venture was gov't manipulation. The apple orchards aren't that productive any more in that area. Many were cut down the land cleared for other things like malls.
The city I am living in now was at one time pretty big in textiles. The company I was working for here used to consist of three buildings spread out in the city. It's now down to one building with about 35 employees, the boss rents out a good amount of the space as storage. And of course most of the products that were printed are not being printed in another country.
You can't really blame robotics for the demise of our manufacturing base since well it started in the 70's and never let up! We are hurting for jobs here because they have been shipping every job they can to countries where they can pay less money (although they still want more money for the products that they produce!!) and if they can't ship the job overseas then they will bring in immigrants to do the job so they have an excuse not to pay them as much.
Even skilled jobs have been hit by this trend.

a reply to: EvillerBob
ya well it's kind of hard to do much with mcdonalds as an example...
let's try one of these careers!!!
jobs.aol.com...

a reply to: dawnstar

i believe some but not all of those from your link.

auto mechanics make more than 10 bucks an hour.
maybe your link is grouping dudes that bust tires or work at the instant oil change places....those are not mechanics.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: gosseyn

The big picture is that in a world based on natural law, its pays to remember that squirrels don't store their acorns in huge, communal tree trunks, for the common good of all squirrels.

Altruism is a wonderful thing to attain to. But its like a Mexican standoff. The first person who blinks takes it in the gut. So until the folks on top blink....im gonna hold the trigger. The alternative: my kids go hungry. Philosophy doesn't feed them.

No, but science does. And philosophy and science are linked, when you see one advancing, the other is often advancing too.

I suppose you are referring to my comment about the automation of these jobs. It's a given, it will happen, like many other kinds of jobs. And I don't even need a crystal ball to tell you that.

The big picture is that today scarcity is artificially maintained and money means nothing. And we are not squirrels, squirrels don't invent robots. But are you telling me that there is no fridge in your home where all the food is shared and anyone in your family can pick things to eat and drink ?

a reply to: gosseyn

My family? Sure. But if Norma's son from across the street were to walk in and rummage through it, he'd have to explain what the hell was going on. We are territorial. This is the nature of humans. On the other hand, most humans are altruistic enough to open a door that is being knocked on, even if they will shoot you for not bothering to knock.

I mention philosophy because the philosophical discussion of altruism is just that. I waited so long for it to happen on a national level that I have given up. Time to hunker down and make sure I don't starve during retirement.

a reply to: Mugly
oh then maybe you will like this list better...

www.quintcareers.com...

although this is a list of jobs that pay less then ten dollars an hour...
which in my opinion, anyone working a 40 hour week job should be paid enough to keep them off of welfare, unless they have a 3 or more kids.

a reply to: dawnstar

I agree, lots of blame to go around. Our system is very complex which makes it a whole lot easier for some folks to fall through the cracks.

To survive the economical upheaval we experienced, we decided keeping things simple was best but we had the luxury to choose. A lot of people found themselves trapped by mortgages/auto loans etc. My hubby had just finished his apprenticeship when the layoffs began. We were married nearly 10 years, had no children, substantial savings for a home and no credit cards/debt and we were young.

So many were being laid off at once. We either had to wait it out, somehow reinvent ourselves amid economic ruin or relocate. We relocated/reinvented.

Not directed at you I just wanted to include, I agree with bigfatfurrytexan if you think corporations are bending you over, they probably are but stop supporting them. We certainly don't spend hundreds of dollars at Walmart every week.

No one should get too cocky though, I saw planned obsolescence play out in Gary. Can be tough preparing for that, especially if it hits the whole population at once.

originally posted by: gosseyn
It will not take long before all these jobs are automated, the technology is already present and ready, the plans too. It will just take one fast-food company to do it and the others will have to follow if they don't want to disappear. Jobs like this are the easiest to automate.

since there will be no end to the growth of automation, I don't know why young kids don't get into that field, whether it be design, manufacture, or repair and maintenance.....machines need to be updated and replaced, software needs upgrading, and you can't have robots and machines without motors, actuators, pneumatics, and hydraulics needing constant maintenance.

a reply to: dawnstar

When i worked as a phone agent in a call center in 2001 i made around $17.00/hr.

Bartenders...tip driven. Good service = higher tips. I know bartenders making $50k+ per year

Crossing guard....voluntary workers in any community I have ever lived in. Of course free retired people is below minimum wage.

My 15 year old son worked as a dishwasher for 2 years, making $11/hr. He was replaced by someone making the same, just like all dishwashers there.

Hotel Front Desk Clerks, unless they work in a complete dive, are paid pretty well. They are the public face of the hotel. They handle money. They have to have basic accounting knowledge to process transactions in a PMS (which is needlessly confusing most of the time with most systems)

Home health aides in my community, one of the more economically depressed areas in the nation until recently, make $12/hr and up. Minimum.

Waitstaff...another tip driven wage. most waitstaff don't even try to work for their tips. The ones who do, make more than me.

Im not buying that list.