OK Supreme Court: Ten Commandments Monument Must Be Removed From Capitol

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The ten commandments statue also isn't promoting any religion that's the point. If you demand removing any religious references then remove them all, that's equality right?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Krazysh0t

There are some that want PC to go right into the church sanctuary. Get certain off the radio that talk about certain issues from a christian perspective.

Well those some are wrong. You won't see me advocating the removal of church rights inside church. I just don't like it when churches preach politics from the pulpit. That is a violation of their 501(c)3 status.

But Krazy......thats why they put the church and press together in the 1st amendment. So the government couldn't shut a church down for preaching a political position. And as history has shown interpreting politics from a biblical perspective, which the bible itself does, has lead to many unpleasant persecutions. Look what official churches, Anglican, Catholic ect in bed with the government have done to sects that didn't support official positions.

Heck who knows, Maybe the founders appreciated Christianity's mainline theme about worldly governments and good morals to be directed at a corrupt government.

wait nvm.

I did try to come up with a cogent argument for keeping the 10 Commandments, and came up with nothiing.

I certainly would feel "off" if the currency said, "Hail Satan".

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I understand that, but what is your point? Why does it matter if the country was rooted in Christian principles?

We still have freedom of religion and a separation of church and state, including Christian churches.

So please enlighten me and explain why it even matters?

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
If you demand removing any religious references then remove them all, that's equality right?

Or display them all, a la the Supreme Court building.

You have a rather profoundly poor grasp of United States law.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: grandmakdw

Well, that's frightening.

I believe that government buildings should not post the commandments, but I would not want to remove the Byrd statue or the Washington monument. We are going too far with this.

We are never going to move forward if we are stuck in the past or have the belief that our personal religion is superior because we falsely believe the country was founded on our religion.

Why is that going to far?

Robert Byrd was an admitted KKK member, his statue is therefore a symbol of the KKK. That is offensive to people of color. Since offensiveness is the new standard for what is or is not in the public arena, all statues, photos, and references to Robert Byrd must be removed from the public arena. That is only fair and just to the people of color he persecuted.
Same with Jefferson and Washington.

So by your own logic, we must remove and cleanse the past and remove any symbol of the past that represents anyone's personal religion, because they offend someone in the US somewhere. You have a point, scrub the past so that no one is offended by having to be reminded of anyone else's religion or the transgressions of KKK members or slave owners.

originally posted by: beezzer
I did try to come up with a cogent argument for keeping the 10 Commandments, and came up with nothiing.

I certainly would feel "off" if the currency said, "Hail Satan".

Currency is satan anyway. Putting that on there would be as redundant as putting "I'm a Building" on a house.

a reply to: grandmakdw

So by your own logic, we must remove and cleanse the past and remove any symbol of the past that represents anyone's personal religion, because they offend someone in the US somewhere.

No, my point is actually the opposite. If we start down this road of being completely offended at everything in sight, where do we stop? I think the statue should stay up because I don't give a rat's ass. I do not get wrapped-up in the symbolism.

Symbolism is for the weak-minded and too many are in to symbols.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

In response to those saying America is a Christian nation:

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: grandmakdw

Better just raze America then because it exists and things that are offensive to some or other is basically how it reduces to.

*Not actually, I don't want America razed.

Yep that's just what would be consistant, fair and just to everyone.
That is the current standard under which SCOTUS is operating
and the current standard that many on ATS demand.

So to be consistent, fair and just to all,
to not be judgmental,
to not be intolerant,
to not be bigoted,
we must remove anything that anyone finds offensive
in all public places,
and scrub all writings, sayings, symbols,
statues that either represent a religion past or present,
or glorify people who owned slaves
or were members of the KKK,
or members of any group that anyone finds offensive.

Yep, you got a point there,
that would be the only fair and just and tolerant
and non-judgemental thing to be done all over the US
and make it a law
that if someone is offended by a writing, saying,
symbol of statue that represents a religion past or present,
or is from a person who we currently judge
to have done immoral things;
then they must be scrubbed and cleansed from the public arena.

You got it!

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Actually, I don't.

The point of my comment that was disputed here is that the US was fundamentally built on Christian principles, fact.

Backpedaling is just stupid, the US is as it is, it's history is as it is, blacking out chunks of it like a government document is ridiculous and will only create a backlash against those demanding such things.

It's about tolerance and acceptance of things being as they are. Would you go to Iran and tell them to take stuff down because it offends your opinion? You would most likely accept it as it is. The US should do the same, embrace it's history or it risks it's future.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, Byrd was a member of the KKK, but he also served his state and country. If we can forgive a founding father for actually owning slaves to justify his memorial, we can forgive a man that was a member of a racist group, but never owned a slave or killed a person of color.

Well what else do you remember Byrd by? What other notable legislation did he contribute to the country to create his legacy? That's the point I'm getting at. It's about his legacy. Did his non-racist deeds, over shadow his racist deeds.

For instance, Woodrow Wilson. Many think that WW is one of the greatest Presidents we've ever had. Except he was a raging racist (his administration's policies are largely blamed for the resurgence of the KKK which had all but died out by then), but how many people remember that about him? I mean I do, because I've studied him, but that isn't what has defined his legacy.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The ten commandments statue also isn't promoting any religion that's the point. If you demand removing any religious references then remove them all, that's equality right?

Um no, it doesn't work that way. You either promote all or none. If the government is already promoting all, then there is no reason to remove anything.

Robert Byrd was an admitted KKK member, his statue is therefore a symbol of the KKK. That is offensive to people of color. Since offensiveness is the new standard for what is or is not in the public arena, all statues, photos, and references to Robert Byrd must be removed from the public arena. That is only fair and just to the people of color he persecuted.

This needs to be forwarded to the Remove the Confederate Flag group for action.

As people fight over these type of issues, the real issues affecting the quality of the average American's life can be side stepped by our leaders. That seems to be the plan since these issues are no being addressed. Just keep people distracted and in fear of ISIS (this year bad guys) and they can continue their march toward the goal.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: grandmakdw

So by your own logic, we must remove and cleanse the past and remove any symbol of the past that represents anyone's personal religion, because they offend someone in the US somewhere.

No, my point is actually the opposite. If we start down this road of being completely offended at everything in sight, where do we stop? I think the statue should stay up because I don't give a rat's ass. I do not get wrapped-up in the symbolism.

Symbolism is for the weak-minded and too many are in to symbols.

Please look at your PM

What, symbolism for the weak minded, how offensive and judgemental.

Don't you know that even looking at the 10 Commandments is enough
to send some people fleeing for fear of being contaminated
by the very sight of a religious symbol.

Symbols mean things, and we should take them very seriously,
you know that the writings, sayings, from all religions that
adorn the Supreme Court force people to look at them,
and force those who are offended to read them,
and force people into deep confusion and moral trepidation
at the very sight of them.

a reply to: Logarock

Well 501(c)3 status is a privilege, not a right. It is a privilege with SPECIFIC rules regarding making sure the organization isn't political. So if a church wants to preach from the pulpit, they should give up the tax-exempt status. It's not like they'd be shut down or anything.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I understand that, but what is your point? Why does it matter if the country was rooted in Christian principles?

We still have freedom of religion and a separation of church and state, including Christian churches.

So please enlighten me and explain why it even matters?

Truth is simply pointing out as part of the argument that the ideas people have about christian influence on america is bunk. US was highly influenced. Some seem to be wanting to rewrite history.

To your point......yea Christianity will just have to get out in the world of ideas and compete like everyone else lol. Losing what looks like an official consideration on government grounds.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

OK, but Christianity's roots are in Judaism which roots are in the Canaanite religion. What's your point? Are we a Canaanite country?

The U.S.A. is not a Christian country. If so everyone would have to be Christian and there would be punishable laws against doing non-Christian things. And those barbaric punishments would be straight out of the Christian Bible...right? What should be the sentence for those found guilty of working on a Sunday? A fine, jail time, or death? That sounds pretty close to what ISIS wants/is making. Do you really want to live in that sort of place? I don't.

So, yes we should take the universal no-brianer/sane parts of Christianity (like: don't murder people) and ignore the barbaric, voodoo stuff.

a reply to: introvert

The point is that the US is looking like an ass because of all the backpedaling like it's suffering a guilt trip about it's existence. It was built on Christian principles, fact.

Just because there is a statue that is very relevant to the US and it's history isn't promoting anything.

The IN GOD WE TRUST on the $ is based on Christianity.

I understand that, but what is your point? Why does it matter if the country was rooted in Christian principles?