Serious Question: Why are so Many People Afraid/Unaccepting of Transgender People?

originally posted by: Firefly_
As for people who keep referring to studies. There is a problem with them, in that studies are often commissioned and carried out by people with various agendas, so the results are likely to be skewed in that direction. If you do digging you can eventually dig one out that comes out with results that are closest to your views. Look at all the research done on cannabis for another example of how this works. At the end of the day the best way to understand is to find out from real TG people. Not ignore what they have to say and cite some paper.

There's also a problem with funding.

Its not an illness. Its not life threatening. Its not a top priority - - - except to those involved.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
Don't know if this has been mentioned (only just seen the thread) but transgenderism is viewed as a mental disorder universally within psychiatry.

NO - - not anymore.

However, there is intentional wording that allows for insurance coverage.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Okay. These are just preliminary thoughts, based on what I can personally relate to, but it has raised much for me to ponder and contemplate. For example, this:

The immediate reaction I get from my reflection is a feeling of very strong disassociation, accompanied by a kind of shock, confusion, or mental jarring. (Actually, the shock is what I notice first). I have the strong, gut-level sensation that whoever is behind the mirror is not me.

I have never felt any connection whatsoever to the face I see in the mirror. That's not me. It's just a shell. As a little girl, I used to close my eyes real tight and try to see inside of me... I was absolutely sure that if I tried hard enough I could see the inner me... the real me. It never worked, but I tried!!! But I was looking at it from a more spiritual perspective, rather than a gender perspective. I didn't think I was the wrong sex and that everything would be okay if I were a man. I figured it was the difference between my eternal soul and my temporary physical body, and the limitations of my physical senses on knowing my eternal soul.

So why did I come to different conclusions from the author? My first guess would be nature vs. nurture. We do/think/believe what we know. I was raised in a religious home, taught that what matters is inside, not outside... that God is no respecter of persons, but sees only our hearts. Perhaps for the author, gender identity was stressed far more than spiritual identity. Perhaps it has more to do with how we each viewed the opposite sex; I never saw boys as being inherently better than girls... exactly the opposite in fact!

But then the author makes this point as well:

Nowadays I am much more at peace with myself, though it’s interesting that the only times I’ve ever spontaneously said “I love myself” have been after taking hormones.

And:

Asides from these things, I could point to how female hormones gave me a sense of peace and comfort with myself that I’d never experienced before.

I can totally relate to that! As I mentioned previously, I loved being pregnant because the hormones made me all happy and lovey. I even knew it at the time. (So did my hubby!) But that begs the question: How much of this can be attributed to hormonal imbalances from either internal or external sources? Especially given the many hormonal based substances -- medications, pesticides, etc. -- that people are subject to on a daily basis? And how does that affect each of us as individuals?

For example, would one boy be affected physically by growing breasts, but not be affected mentally or emotionally, thus making the breasts alien and unacceptable to him? Whereas another might not be affected physically, but is affected mentally and emotionally, therefore feeling like a girl although the body parts don't match? I don't know -- I'm not sure anyone does.

Where the author somewhat loses me is when speaking about what I consider most superficial things... going back to the temporary body vs eternal soul thing. For example:

Cis people who think that way often act towards trans people in ways which suggest the perception of the wrong gender, such as calling a man “she” or a woman “he”, giving a girl a “dude hug”, etc.

The author continues to say this can be very offensive... and I cannot relate. In the real world, I've never been mistaken for a man... but I have on the internet. I've never been offended by it. Why should I? Sometimes I don't even notice at first because I'm focused on the context of the discussion, not the pronouns used. I've never felt the need to correct anyone either, because it's just not pertinent. My gender neither validates nor invalidates my position so no harm no foul. All it tells me is that most folks have never heard of Queen Boadicia... But I do wonder why is gender irrelevant to me but so relevant to others?

And then I find this bringing me back full circle:

When someone’s limb is cut off, they often still “feel” it there for years afterwards. This phenomenon is called having a “phantom limb”. It has to do with the fact that the mind has an awareness of what our body is – or should be – shaped like, and this awareness can even persist when the body is no longer shaped that way.

Again, we're talking about someone who once had a limb that is now missing. A genuine deviation from what was once very real. I find the comparison quite ignorant, and very offensive to the amputee. A very dear family member committed suicide because of excruciating debillitating pain for which there was absolutely no relief after having his leg amputated. I tried like hell to help him any and every way I could, but I obviously couldn't do enough. It still brings tears to my eyes thinking about the hell he lived for so long that affected every aspect of his life. In my experience, there is no comparison, and further if the author truly understood what the amputee feels, they would be ashamed of themselves for making that comparison. Stolen valor is quite apt here, but it's the same principle.

Again, I thank you for the link. It was quite intriguing and enlightening for many reasons, it helped me understand a little better the perspective of at least this transgender person, but it still just raises more questions than it answers for me. And that's a good thing. Keeps me thinking outside the box.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
Ok fine I'll bite (again for the sake of conversation) Down syndrome is a form of mental illness but I think most people would agree that it would be in extremely bad taste to yell slurs at and marginalize people with down syndrome. Do all humans not deserve to be treated with dignity and respect or just the ones you agree with?a reply to: CJCrawley

Yes, but again, the Transgender Lawsuit "fight" for Women's showers and bathroom "rights" is ridiculous. So is the the "fight" for "anatomical males" to compete against women in women's sports.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lawsuits for biological males to use the female bathroom
www.pressherald.com...
www.bostonglobe.com... -humiliated-bathroom-for-using-woman/33jHJQelTOflLR19tzPQHL/story.html
www.hawaiinewsnow.com...

Even in the ARMY... this is insane.
www.judicialwatch.org...

Now lawsuits for "free breast cancer" screening
www.9news.com...

Lawsuits for biological men to compete against women in sports
www.metroactive.com...

Again, this is insane, linked 2 of my previous posts with true concerns over this practice.

Under this reasoning, you can be a "biological male" and claim to be a female (as can anyone then). Can I be biologically a white man and legally identify as a African American woman? Can I then submit for Federal grants and Business Subsidies afforded to African American women because regardless of my "anatomical or biological" parts or appearance, I want to be a African American Woman"?

See the logic here at all. I am all for you doing what you want to do but when it comes to Womens showers, bathrooms, and programs, if you are biologically male then that is what you are. Stop the Insanity.

I wasn't going to bother with you but that little "stolen valor" comment about sent me thermo nuclear. Identifying as the opposite sex of how you were born is in NO WAY SHAPE or FORM even close to the same thing as cowards who never put their lives on the line for this country and pretend they did (even if that service was misguided). As someone who has served my country honorably and survived a horrible conflict unscathed but have brothers who did not that part of your comment enrages me. Absolutely infuriates and Im about as mello as they come.t reply to: Boadicea

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

Yeah yeah... whatever. You are going to think what you will anyway, and it says far more about you than it does about me, so you have fun with that.

Ill agree with you on the sports issue = not very fair but as for the bathroom thing get over it. There are stalls for a reason and the majority of HUMANS in general don't want to spy on your lil winky.a reply to: infolurker

Yeah yeah I could say the same for youa reply to: Boadicea

a reply to: infolurker

You know about the: "We just need to Pee" campaign?

Safe bathroom access is not a luxury or a special right. Without safe access to public bathrooms, trans & genderqueer people and people who don’t fit gender stereotypes are denied full participation in public life. For many of us, finding a safe place to use the bathroom is a daily struggle.

freetopeegbc.com...

www.towleroad.com...

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
Ill agree with you on the sports issue = not very fair but as for the bathroom thing get over it. There are stalls for a reason and the majority of HUMANS in general don't want to spy on your lil winky.a reply to: infolurker

As I said, read my previous posts. I could care less who is in the Men's room.

But since you will not read it, I will quote it.

OK, as a guy, I could care less if a man wearing a dress and identifying himself as a "woman" takes a leak next to me or is in a gym locker room. I could really care less if a woman identifying herself as a "man" uses the mens shower or restroom.

On the other hand, Many Woman do not want a "genetic" men in their bathroom or shower "free donging".

Sorry, but if you are "biologically male", use the male restroom and showers period.

If it pleases the transgender community to not use the terms "male and female" then put up pics of "penis or vagina" on the door and use whichever bathroom that matches your biological structure.

I have major concerns with "anatomical males" using Womens showers, locker rooms, and bathrooms.

I have brought up the point that any man can then say he is "transgender" even if he is not in order to access womens facilities for nefarious purposes.

It is a valid concern. There are very bad and sick people in our society and there are many, many women who do not want "anatomical men" in their locker rooms, showers, and bathrooms.

Recently, there has been a drive to sue anyone who prevents transgender "anatomical males" from accessing these Womens facilities.

There are also "negative consequences" for Women who voice their concerns. When Unisex options are provided, that idea is rejected and litigation ensues.

I think it is quite a fair concern. How do you keep the predators and perverts from claiming "transgender" status and accessing women's facilities without the ability to even challenge it because challenging will be considered unfairly "profiling" or harassment?

Again, me personally could care less who uses the Male facilities but allowing unchallengeable ease of access to womens facilities is a concern. Does anyone else see this as a valid concern?

I think the women have valid points about this.

War on Women.. LOL

originally posted by: Boadicea

I have never felt any connection whatsoever to the face I see in the mirror. That's not me. It's just a shell. As a little girl, I used to close my eyes real tight and try to see inside of me... I was absolutely sure that if I tried hard enough I could see the inner me... the real me. It never worked, but I tried!!! But I was looking at it from a more spiritual perspective, rather than a gender perspective. I didn't think I was the wrong sex and that everything would be okay if I were a man. I figured it was the difference between my eternal soul and my temporary physical body, and the limitations of my physical senses on knowing my eternal soul.

Neither do I. I'm 5'8", but what I see is a tiny Jewish lady and I have a great aversion to Nazi Germany. Reincarnation? Memory cells?

But, I don't see what that has to do with how a Trans brain shows similarities to gender opposite from the physical.

So your saying that it is ok to cater to biological women's irrational fears versus a demographic that has documented cases of being assaulted in bathrooms by people who did not like that idea? Is that what your saying? If so pleas provide one documented case of a biological male dressed as a woman assaulting a woman in a bathroom. I challenge you sir...a reply to: infolurker

a reply to: Boadicea

See to me, hormones are simply a source of pain, but then again, my body is just a source of pain no matter what its gender happens to be.

I hated being pregnant and found the entire experience to be miserable even though the results were worth it.

The problem I have with this idea that you suddenly wake up in the wrong body is that for that to happen, you once knew what it was like to be in the right one. From what we are told of transgenders, they were never in harmony with their bodies, so they never knew what the proper body felt like. There is actually no way for us to imagine that.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Boadicea

The entire media circus is geared towards fickleness, superficiality and deconstruction of moral values.

Ain't that the truth!!!

''Here dance in front of this mirror while we blow smoke your direction whilst we are taking over your culture and values'' it's a war on another level than physical.

Funny you should say that. I often think of all this in terms of smoke and mirrors. Society as a whole has become so focused on the superificial -- looks, money, possessions, etc. -- that we ignore deeper truths that transcend the physical. We are so much more than that! I don't understand it, and I don't know how to change it. It's a sad sad world.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: infolurker

You know about the: "We just need to Pee" campaign?

Safe bathroom access is not a luxury or a special right. Without safe access to public bathrooms, trans & genderqueer people and people who don’t fit gender stereotypes are denied full participation in public life. For many of us, finding a safe place to use the bathroom is a daily struggle.

freetopeegbc.com...

www.towleroad.com...

You just need to use and shower in the female locker room as well? Forcing Women to have "biological men" in their locker room is a bit much don't you think? As stated previously, what prevents "anyone" from claiming to be transgender and use the female facilities unchallenged?

It doesn't happen suddenly, why won't you people GET THAT. Its a lifelong struggle that most realize well before hitting their teen years.t reply to: ketsuko

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Boadicea

I have never felt any connection whatsoever to the face I see in the mirror. That's not me. It's just a shell. As a little girl, I used to close my eyes real tight and try to see inside of me... I was absolutely sure that if I tried hard enough I could see the inner me... the real me. It never worked, but I tried!!! But I was looking at it from a more spiritual perspective, rather than a gender perspective. I didn't think I was the wrong sex and that everything would be okay if I were a man. I figured it was the difference between my eternal soul and my temporary physical body, and the limitations of my physical senses on knowing my eternal soul.

Neither do I. I'm 5'8", but what I see is a tiny Jewish lady and I have a great aversion to Nazi Germany. Reincarnation? Memory cells?

But, I don't see what that has to do with how a Trans brain shows similarities to gender opposite from the physical.

But just because it shows similarities may not mean much of anything.

As a chronic migraine sufferer, I may have lesions on my brain as a result of my disease. Sounds scary. But you know what? Apparently, it doesn't seem to mean much of anything because the lesions don't seem to have any measurable effect that they've found.

So is it a correlation or a causation? No one knows.

What about those similarities again? Do they actually mean anything? Or are they simply an interesting correlation?

Also, what if being transgender or acting transgender is the cause of that brain similarity and not the other way around? Brains can be retrained by altering behaviors.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
It doesn't happen suddenly, why won't you people GET THAT. Its a lifelong struggle that most realize well before hitting their teen years.t reply to: ketsuko

I wasn't talking about you. And you are proving my point which was to another poster who was trying to prove something by challenging us to suddenly imagine that we were put inside a male body.

Go back and read the post you're responding to and you'll see me say exactly what you're getting upset about.

From what we are told of transgenders, they were never in harmony with their bodies, so they never knew what the proper body felt like. There is actually no way for us to imagine that.

Where is that documented case? Cant find one?a reply to: infolurker

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
So your saying that it is ok to cater to biological women's irrational fears versus a demographic that has documented cases of being assaulted in bathrooms by people who did not like that idea? Is that what your saying? If so pleas provide one documented case of a biological male dressed as a woman assaulting a woman in a bathroom. I challenge you sir...a reply to: infolurker

Challenge accepted and too easy:

That took about a minute.


Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ in order to assault women in shelter
www.lifesitenews.com...

Examples of Sexual Predators Using These Ordinances to Commit Crimes
Here are six examples where sexual predators have used similar laws as cover to gain access to commit their crimes. You can examine the links to the document provided by the Human Rights Campaign (who helped author Ordinance 6141) and the Purdue University policy.

www.yesonquestion1.net...


www.nbcsandiego.com...