Seeking Deeper Meaning In Scripture

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: TheJourney
All scriptures are pointing to the same thingless thing. The eternal Tao cannot be named because it is not a thing - the word God cannot be grasped or told either. The holy grail is just a symbol for the same non thing.

Nothing is being pointed to and no one will ever find it because the whole point is that when it is discovered there is nothing found by no one.

Simply saying this in relation to the theme of the thread, but in fact "all scripture" would not be an accurate evaluation in regards to "the word of God cannot be grasped or told". Thats just not going to be something that is consistent to all scripture.

originally posted by: Wifibrains
a reply to: TheJourney


There are deeper meanings to single words that can change the meaning to a whole sentence or verse, even inverting the overall meaning to say the opposite of what the original intent was....

In allegory, someone being burned by the fire of the lord, would be released from the bondage of tradition and indoctrination... people having their heads cut off only litteraly mean bloody murder, but in ritual belief, could be seen as OOBE, similar to the red sea parting(bloody robe). Many statues of saints depict them decapitated and holding their own heads while standing. In the eternal life of the spirit, ones body would be a robe soaked in blood.

Yea, that represents some of the ways of reading I was getting at with my OP. Actually, I wanted to mention that in seeking out this esoteric interpretation, it may say extreme sounding things which are meant as hyperbole to demonstrate a point in an extreme and metaphoric way. Wasn't exactly sure how I wanted to say it, so just left it out. Good point to about how a single word and subtle things like that can completely change the meaning, in ways people would t generally consider.

a reply to: TheJourney

It is said that people will understand spiritual scriptures etc in accordance with their level of inner spirituality. I think that is why there are many different interpretations of various verses and why folk can be easily manipulated.

a reply to: TheJourney

What do you think of reading religious scripture with the intent of seeing deeper esoteric meanings in it, as opposed to reading about a dogma to believe in.

definition Esoteric:
adjective
1.
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite:
poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2.
belonging to the select few.
3.
private; secret; confidential.
4.
(of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group:
the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.

And that is, the idea which oftentimes is the source of the mystical offshoots of the religions, the idea of legitimately sacred, divine, perfect, scripture.

There can be no perfection in this physical state ( your words: legitimately sacred ) These are still words written by men moved by the spirit sometimes, othertimes by the quest for control over their fellow man. Sure their are truths, but only you will discover them when the penny drops - gnosis

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I'm not your guru for that.

I am not anyones guru - or anyones follower. Didnt jesus say the kingdom of heaven is within?

Didnt jesus say the kingdom of heaven is within?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I wish more folk would realize this! When you feel it, there is absolutely no denying it.

originally posted by: Daughter2
"Deeper" may not be the answer.

If you think it can be uncovered intellectually, then study something like math.

Beg pardon but ... why?

Follow up, how is anything studied (or how is the observation processed) without using our "intellect"?

Thank you kindly for your answers.

originally posted by: DrunkYogi

Didnt jesus say the kingdom of heaven is within?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I wish more folk would realize this! When you feel it, there is absolutely no denying it.

Going within has been the great esoteric search of many spiritual aspirants, and may result in various spiritual experiences, and even awakenings. But such abstraction from what is apparently external is just more separative seeking and will not ultimately reveal the Truth.

From the standpoint of Reality or Truth there is no within or without. All conditionality arises in Reality itself.

a reply to: bb23108

There is no seeking bb. It is just passive awareness as Krishnamurti would say. You become aware that there is something that permeates everything, including the body. Any premeditated meditation techniques imho are a hindrance to recognition of what you naturally are. I feel that they produce unnatural states of consciousness.

originally posted by: DrunkYogi
a reply to: bb23108

There is no seeking bb. It is just passive awareness as Krishnamurti would say. You become aware that there is something that permeates everything, including the body. Any premeditated meditation techniques imho are a hindrance to recognition of what you naturally are. I feel that they produce unnatural states of consciousness.

Yes, no seeking avails. So why did you say more people should go within?

originally posted by: TheJourney

But, really I do tend to think there are deeper, esoteric truths in religious scripture. You just have to read it a certain way. You have to look for subtle things in the way its written.

I think the word you're looking for is hermeneutic or exegesis. The particular way you read it is your personal hermeneutic. You're inspired to a deeper meaning, as opposed to skimming the surface for a meaning which conforms to a traditional, socially acceptable, exoteric interpretation.

Hermeneutics can be applied to secular text and even our life stories, not just to sacred text. An esoteric hermeneutic recognizes that the meaning of a text or artwork is not determined solely by the intent of the author or artist. The artist is not running the show. There is something deeper going on, which means there are dimensions of meaning that an artist or author is often unaware of. Esoteric meanings.

"The biographies of great artists make it abundantly clear that the creative urge is often so imperious that it battens on their humanity and yokes everything to the service of the work, even at the cost of health and ordinary human happiness. The unborn work in the psyche of the artist is a force of nature that achieves its end either with tyrannical might or with the subtle cunning of nature herself, quite regardless of the personal fate of the man who is its vehicle." -Carl Gustav Jung

👣

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight
Why was that addressed to me?

Quite confused.

Also I don't care what Jesus has to say. I am my own person. I'm free of theological chains.

Pfft. The very shirt you're wearing is a theological chain of sorts. Not that that's a bad thing.

You don't realize that, because you aren't applying an esoteric hermeneutic to the comic-book mythos. But you should be.

Here, this will help.

www.amazon.com...

👣

a reply to: bb23108

Because when you are passively aware you feel the energy in your body at a deeper level (going within). What happens with me is that you then become aware that there is something pervading all of the bodily energy and furthermore your surrounding's. What is within is without. There is no effort in it bb, just passive awareness.

originally posted by: DrunkYogi
a reply to: bb23108

Because when you are passively aware you feel the energy in your body at a deeper level (going within). What happens with me is that you then become aware that there is something pervading all of the bodily energy and furthermore your surrounding's. What is within is without. There is no effort in it bb, just passive awareness.

Okay, but this is not an effort to go within, as it sounded like you were talking about earlier.

a reply to: bb23108

It is what i was saying bb. I mentioned different types of meditation that produce unnatural effects to show the difference. These meditations usually consist of closing your eyes and manipulating your thought's, they may imply going within but in essence your mind is taking you out. As long as your mind is manipulating the situation then imho you are no longer naturally meditating.

originally posted by: BlueMule
Hermeneutics can be applied to secular text and even our life stories, not just to sacred text. An esoteric hermeneutic recognizes that the meaning of a text or artwork is not determined solely by the intent of the author or artist. The artist is not running the show. There is something deeper going on, which means there are dimensions of meaning that an artist or author is often unaware of. Esoteric meanings.

"The biographies of great artists make it abundantly clear that the creative urge is often so imperious that it battens on their humanity and yokes everything to the service of the work, even at the cost of health and ordinary human happiness. The unborn work in the psyche of the artist is a force of nature that achieves its end either with tyrannical might or with the subtle cunning of nature herself, quite regardless of the personal fate of the man who is its vehicle." -Carl Gustav Jung

Seriously how do you do that? I love reading your posts, you are so smart, everytime I feel I just learned something.

a reply to: Peeple

Hey thanks fellow Spock fan! I love hearing that. I don't really deserve any credit though. I have friends, teachers, guides, and protectors on the other side of the veil. They teach me during meditation, dreams, and waking states. They guide me to reading material. They put up with all my bull# and whining.

👣

originally posted by: DrunkYogi
a reply to: bb23108

It is what i was saying bb. I mentioned different types of meditation that produce unnatural effects to show the difference. These meditations usually consist of closing your eyes and manipulating your thought's, they may imply going within but in essence your mind is taking you out. As long as your mind is manipulating the situation then imho you are no longer naturally meditating.

Right, and to bring our discussion more to the thread's topic relative to esotericism in the Scriptures, it seems that when Jesus told his disciples that only through him would they be saved or reborn (in the Light), he was telling them to meditate on him for he was one with the Divine. This is the esoteric tradition of the guru-disciple relationship in which the disciple surrenders utterly and the guru transmits the grace of the Divine to him if and when the disciple is ready.

This awakening to the indivisible oneness of the Divine certainly appears to be what Jesus did with his disciples, and he created their mission work in the world on this same non-dual basis.

John 17:20-26
New International Version (NIV)

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[a] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”


Jesus walked the earth as Spiritual Master, not as some separate God-Person that was going to magically cure everyone's problems but through Blessing true aspirants with a profound understanding of their fundamental non-separation from God via initiating them into esoteric practices regarding the Spirit Breath and Light to awaken them to direct communion with the Divine.

Such was his authority and mastery over the conditional realms of earth and heaven, and his message is essentially an esoteric message relative to God as the Divine Light above, and how to rightly prepare the body-mind for this reception of his Blessing Light through fully loving God and neighbor as oneself.

a reply to: bb23108

Jesus walked the earth as Spiritual Master, not as some separate God-Person that was going to magically cure everyone's problems but through Blessing true aspirants with a profound understanding of their fundamental non-separation from God via initiating them into esoteric practices regarding the Spirit Breath and Light to awaken them to direct communion with the Divine.

I believe this too bb. The Vatican would have us believe he was the one and only son of an external God and this keeps people relying on them as a route to God. People need to realize what they truly are and help themselves.

We do not need any organized religion that actually destroys true religious experience. The true message is in many great passages of scripture but for some reason most people miss it. As mentioned before, it just seems to be where some folk are at and they cannot move on until this fact is recognized.

The truth does link all religions but it is obscured by the priests etc for their own agenda. It seems to me that more and more people are actually waking up but it may be too late.