Seeking Deeper Meaning In Scripture

I would like to discuss a topic which I find to be interesting and worthy of consideration. And that is religious scripture, particularly as one comes to embrace open-minded spirituality rather than traditional adherence to religious dogma. Because, I have not been traditionally religious, one who adheres to a religious dogma, in quite some time. But, I have had the belief that there were deep spiritual truths in religious scripture, they just don't get noticed because the majority representation of the text in the religious institutions don't explore these deeper meanings so much, and instead just stick to the dogma. In reality, I don't read those sorts of scripture all that much anymore, but theoretically I am interested in the idea.

Now, usually when I do read a religious scripture, like the bible, I will feel that I am seeing deeper meanings behind what is being said than what it would generally be thought to have. And I will often get into a spiritual seeming mindset. But then as I keep reading, I get this sort of opposing force in my mind. Like...you're reading the bible. Just, the sense of it being an old text, which is used to prop up a religion, which usually has a very restrictive effect on the mentality of its adherents. And then this starts up a sort of feeling of aversion to it again. But, really I do tend to think there are deeper, esoteric truths in religious scripture. You just have to read it a certain way. You have to look for subtle things in the way its written. Things which it implies, but doesn't directly say. How characters, objects, events, descriptions, can be paralleled to philosophic and spiritual principles, and descriptions of internal processes.

That's just this idea of, reading deeply into scripture. This is a major method in kaballah, and in Jewish tradition generally really. Sometimes I even have the urge to try to seek out deeper, esoteric meanings in the quran. I have also had impulses into doing this with the Vedas. And this is related to another idea that I've had floating around in my mind for a while, but haven't presented itself as adequate context for a thread. And that is, the idea which oftentimes is the source of the mystical offshoots of the religions, the idea of legitimately sacred, divine, perfect, scripture. That scripture, or at least parts of scripture, are literally perfect. And what that means is, every minor little detail in the way it is written and structured, is absolutely specifically chosen, for reasons that are beyond what we would generally even consider. There is infinite depth of meaning to it. There is nothing arbitrary in a sacred scripture. You must seek out the meaning in every single detail of its composition. And it is this analysis that oftentimes lends itself to mystical illumination, and esoteric philosophy.

And so I would just like to explore this idea, and hear what others have to say. What do you think of reading religious scripture with the intent of seeing deeper esoteric meanings in it, as opposed to reading about a dogma to believe in. This also ties in with another thing. I think we all have our own dispositions. One cannot use ones own dispositions as a context for another. Sometimes it seems to me that I simply have a disposition for reading. Reading has always been a useful and enjoyable tool for spiritual illumination. And, I think this is why a part of me is attracted to this idea of using religious scripture as a source of esoteric wisdom. It is like a self-standing source, where the wisdom is to be uncovered layer by layer as you read deeper and deeper into it.

a reply to: TheJourney

The Bhagavad Gita is the most profound spiritual book i have ever read. It is full of incredible information. The copy i have is translated by S Radhakrishnan and it is superb.

www.amazon.com...

Considering your avatar you might have already read it... I would suggest the Daodejing / Tao Te Ching. I think this is a good candidate for deeper meaning. Worthy of reflection. I would say I found it more profound than any reading of The Bible or Quran. YMMV.

a reply to: DrunkYogi
I have read the Bhagavad Gita a few times. Granted this was The Bhagavad Gita According to Gandhi, and apparently that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I quite liked his commentary. I second the Gita as a suggestion for OP.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
Considering your avatar you might have already read it... I would suggest the Daodejing / Tao Te Ching. I think this is a good candidate for deeper meaning. Worthy of reflection. I would say I found it more profound than any reading of The Bible or Quran. YMMV.

Well, the Tao Te Ching is my favorite spiritual text. Bhagavad Gita is up there as well. These though, are very profound explicitly. Scriptures like the bible and the Quran tend to be less apparently profound, but what I am suggesting is that there is deep and profound meaning in these texts as well, but it comes through 'reading deeply,' rather than being stated so explicitly as say with the tao te ching.

a reply to: TheJourney

Ahh I see what you're saying. Well then perhaps a happy middle ground between the explicit and the implicit, the exoteric and the esoteric, can be found in the heretical gnostic gospels.

I am sure there will be plenty of Christians, and perhaps some Muslims, who can give guidance with the canonical scripture of those respective faiths. I'm not your guru for that.

Good luck!

a reply to: TheJourney
All scriptures are pointing to the same thingless thing. The eternal Tao cannot be named because it is not a thing - the word God cannot be grasped or told either. The holy grail is just a symbol for the same non thing.

Nothing is being pointed to and no one will ever find it because the whole point is that when it is discovered there is nothing found by no one.

They all point to what there is prior to any thought or idea. Prior to concepts is what there actually is but it cannot be studied with the mind so it is hard for humans to see it because they think it is somewhere or some when else.
The mind does not like obvious. The mind is a problem solver. Being reality is not what the mind wants - it wants to become something.
The mind is all about things but what is real besides this moment? Is this (what is) a problem to be solved?

There is only this and this appears as everything. What reality is cannot be named as it is constantly appearing different - it is not a thing.
Things are just words arising.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

a reply to: TheJourney

Matthew 13:10-13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

What Jesus said that day has been in effect since the beginning of mankind - that, although people see, they do not, and they do not understand - they do not see meaning or purpose - they do not see the Spirit.

Spiritually speaking, people are asleep, and so they go by the letter - they're literalistic in the wrong kind of way. Instead, what people should understand is that, what is seen, the physical, is the image of what is in Father.

To put it in plain English for you, yes, you can say the Bible has deeper spiritual meaning, but more accurately, the Bible has spiritual meaning that is unrecognized. So, it is not that it is "deeper", per se, it is just that people do not understand. People do not seek God, they only seek salvation, and so they do not understand what God is saying, which is, literally, physicality.

To help you see/conceive what I am saying, think of your opening post as your body, the image of your awareness, the image of your soul, and your awareness, your soul, is the awareness of your spirit, your will and desire. Again, the image, Jesus, is the body of Father, the soul, and the soul is the awareness of the Spirit - it is conception - it is "good" concept (re)production - it is Love. God is interpreting, translating, his spirit into the light - into the body, just as you translated your spirit, your will and desire, into the words of your opening post. And your words do not point to nothing, nor to any Tao - they point to your soul and to your spirit, your heart, your will and desire.

And now keep that understanding in mind when you back through the Bible, and at reality, at physicality itself. See that physicality is the image/body of spirits, as they have been seen/translated.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep

What Jesus said that day has been in effect since the beginning of mankind - that, although people see, they do not, and they do not understand - they do not see meaning or purpose - they do not see the Spirit.

The sprit is seeing so will never be seen.
Understanding is the problem - there is nothing to understand.
Find that which is seeing.

St. Francis of Assisi — 'What we are looking for is what is looking.'

After spending most of my life searching for deeper meaning in scripture, I've come to conclusions such as what's in the following video.

Although the video is totally accurate, most Bible believers will never even consider the message because they only seem to accept the "deeper meaning" they want to hear.


www.youtube.com...

Here is a good web site i found a few days ago with text from the book Cosmic Consciousness written by Richard Maurice Bucke in 1901. It discusses various historic personalities (Jesus, Plotinus, Socrates, Spinoza, Blake, etc) and tries to explain their experience of said Cosmic Consciousness according to their spiritual quotes.


www.sacred-texts.com...

a reply to: TheJourney


There are deeper meanings to single words that can change the meaning to a whole sentence or verse, even inverting the overall meaning to say the opposite of what the original intent was....

In allegory, someone being burned by the fire of the lord, would be released from the bondage of tradition and indoctrination... people having their heads cut off only litteraly mean bloody murder, but in ritual belief, could be seen as OOBE, similar to the red sea parting(bloody robe). Many statues of saints depict them decapitated and holding their own heads while standing. In the eternal life of the spirit, ones body would be a robe soaked in blood.

a reply to: Profusion

I tend to believe that the teaching's of Jesus and Vatican inspired Christianity are two different thing's. Most of the Bible is totally unreliable in my opinion and some of it was authored to gain control over a gullible populace. Jesus did not hate anyone, of that i am certain. The Vatican Christianity hating ? Well that's another issue all together.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

St. Francis of Assisi — 'What we are looking for is what is looking.'

Exactly!

Your words are the image of what you see. Sadly, you see "nothing", that is, you cannot see something. But I know that, what you do not see, is what you are seeing. I know that, if "there" is, then "there" is something.

You do not realize that the Father and Son are one. His awareness is his image, it is what he interprets, what he translates, what he sees.

Think about it like before you understood these words, you saw only shapes, as shapes are all that you had interpreted, all that you saw, and understood, but once you understood that the shapes point to an awareness, to a conception, then you had conceived them, and that is now what you see - you see my awareness within these words.

My words are the image of my awareness and my awareness is of my spirit - my desire to help you see. That is what you should see - my desire to help you - that is my spirit - what I was trying to explain in my above post. See my spirit, not just the shape of my words, nor simply my awareness.

Do you know about the white and gold or blue and black dress? How some people could only see white and gold until they conceived of blue and black, and once they did so, they could only see blue and black? It is like that. Once you see truth, it becomes your awareness, it is your awareness - the conception of truth (of what you love).

the best description i know in regards to all this is like the formation of a pearl
first some little bit of 'irritant' comes along & you'll layer over it again & again & again & again (and so on...)
and in the end, you'll have your pearl..

..then there's the brief period that ensues when you'll attempt to cast it before various swine

I think I need to push my awareness very far and look from so many sides to find the same info as I have experienced.

I assume most here follow they idea that all religions point to spiritual source on one level or another. I normally think of god as One as it does fit well with both Jewish, Jesus teaching, Nanaks teaching, Buddhism and from my point of view Hinduism even if I have read very little of Bhagavad Gita/Vedas. Do not know much about the Tao but from what I seen so far it seem very nice.

Jewish definition of Yĕhovah

Lexicon :: Strong's H3068 - Yĕhovah
יְהֹוָה
Transliteration
Yĕhovah
Pronunciation
yeh·hō·vä' (Key)
Part of Speech
proper noun with reference to deity
Root Word (Etymology)
From הָיָה (H1961)
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 484a
Outline of Biblical Usage
Jehovah = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God
unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

www.blueletterbible.org...

I have a hard time with the Quran since I am a perfectionist and do not like ambiguety.

This is a non duallistic peace message.



This is a corrupted version who looks similar but can be used to kill people by defining corruption as you like.

5:32
Sahih International
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

The first could never have been used by Wahabbi as justification to kill people. The second one that is in the Quran can be used by Wahabbi as justification to kill people.

I cannot know what Muhammad taught or what he did. I can only see the legacy he left behind and I find it less than perfect.

I do not have the same opinion on Rumi and the Dervish that I think trancended Muhammad.



Rumi: Look Within


Just because I think the Quran is not a good book for finding answers, do not change the fact that some souls will find their way to one/source of all thru using Quran like I think Rumi did.

"Deeper" may not be the answer.

If you think it can be uncovered intellectually, then study something like math.

originally posted by: TheJourney
Scriptures like the bible and the Quran tend to be less apparently profound, but what I am suggesting is that there is deep and profound meaning in these texts as well, but it comes through 'reading deeply,' rather than being stated so explicitly as say with the tao te ching.

The New Testament has references that indicate Jesus was a Spiritual Master who initiated his disciples into esoteric yogic practices to ascend to the Light above. He also gave them exoteric disciplines to prepare the body-mind for such practices by telling them to love the Lord thy God and one's neighbor as oneself. Some references include:

John 3
New International Version (NIV)

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”[f]

John 3
New International Version (NIV)

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit (b) gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

Jesus appeared as a Spiritual Master able to transmit the Spirit Light of the Divine to his closest followers. That he was their spiritual master is indicated in the Bible as the disciples called him Master.

The disciples communed with the Divine through Jesus' transmission of this Light which Jesus was One with. Jesus' confession that he and the Father are one, is the confession of his profound sacrifice of self into God - no separation - only One Person. So he testifies that He is One with God.

This process of Spirit Transmission of the Divine Conscious Light is the ancient "secret" or esoteric way of how all great realizers taught those who recognized the realizers' enlightenment. The ancient means has always been through surrender of separate self to the Divine through the Spiritual Master.

Jesus confessed that he and the Father are One. This is because Jesus realized his non-separation from the Divine and his great mission was to awaken others to this same Truth.