Should Americans Be Allowed to Fight As Mercs Or Join Foreign Armies:

This is a Grey area,I am not sure which way to come down on this,anyone read the book For Whom The Bell tolls,by Ernest Hemingway. about Americans and others fighting in the International Brigade in Spain's civil war an antifascist guerrilla auxiliary,these were mostly Communist and were portrayed as the good guys in the book, the Fascist had their share of foreigners in their ranks fighting for them including Americans,now policy wise the American government under the newly formed F.B.I ran by Herbert Hoover were bashing communist over the head,Killing some and deporting others,fast forward to today,one can have an American join in a shady out fit before the American government come down on one side or another,and if they came down on side you are fighting against..now what??..you are now a traitor especially if Americans now have boots on the ground or do you betray and abandoned your buddies who you were fighting and building bonds of friendship with,especially if you are ideologically driven rather than a Merc in it for the money.
As it turned out America came down against fascist Italy and Germany,African Americans were lining -up to go and fight against Mussolini after he invaded Ethiopia they joined the Lincoln Brigade,one became Ethiopia's first fighter pilot who was tasked to set up the Ethiopian air force.

African-American pilot John C. Robinson was head of the Ethiopian Air Force during the Italian invasion. Numbering only 20 unarmed planes, the force could do little against modern Italian aircraft. Skilfully using the mountain ranges and cloud cover, Robinson however managed to fly numerous reconnaissance missions before the Ethiopian defeaten.wikipedia.org.../File:JohnRobinsonPilot.jpg
In this case yeah good for him, but it could easily been the case that we teamed-up with the fascist if the Nazis did not attacked France and England but marched on communist Russia.
Today battles rages from Ukraine to Syria, we have American volunteers in Syria fighting with sometimes shady free Syrian forces,if ISIS were not so batscht insane we probably not bat an eye if Americans joined that team.
Big question should Americans be banned from fighting in conflict as private citizens.

a reply to: Spider879

Reminds me of this college dude from UCLA who joined the Libyan Rebels during the Libyan Civil War

a reply to: Spider879

Yes. they should be allowed to operate as mercs. If your own country is too cheap or stupid to use your services, then you should be able to take your skills elsewhere with impunity. You are simply a slave if the government won't allow you to make a living in your home country and prevents you from making a living in someone else's. I don't know how they deal with merc's in the US, but when I came back from South Africa (I just worked as an R&D engineer/physicist for a foreign military and the idiots called me a merc) CSIS told me they could have had me charged and taken away as soon as I landed. The fine was also allegedly $15,000.

In today's dollars, if you're making $150k to $300k as a specialist on a 6 month tour, that $15k is just another operational expense, call it at %5-10% tax LOL, but the problem is that there is supposedly jail time. It's not fair that these government assclowns can even try to tell you where you can and cannot work, and then use threats and extortion.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Spider879

Big question should Americans be banned from fighting in conflict as private citizens.

The big problem i see is sorting the apples from oranges . Once a person is out of the country how do you know who he /or she is fighting for . Said person gets to the middle east on decides to cross the border 20 miles up the road and join Isis . Lets imagine this border was Turkeys .They don't care if you are killing terrorists or Kurds .

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Spider879

Big question should Americans be banned from fighting in conflict as private citizens.

The big problem i see is sorting the apples from oranges . Once a person is out of the country how do you know who he /or she is fighting for . Said person gets to the middle east on decides to cross the border 20 miles up the road and join Isis . Lets imagine this border was Turkeys .They don't care if you are killing terrorists or Kurds .

I think the rules of engagement would make short work of that particular problem if it were a different country. Where you have a more serious problem is an in-country civil war. Governments like to call an opposing group "freedom fighters," to a non-friendly government in another country, but what if they actually are freedom fighters in your own country because the government is out of control?

Cheers - Dave

Hasn't there been foreign service for a long time? The French Foreign Legion being a stellar example? I doubt they joined for pay or the chance for French Citizenship. Those guys were well travelled, to say the least, and were involved in actions that night not be viewed as P.C. these days.

In theory, I believe in freedom of choice. However, if one joins a group at odds with U.S. interests-whether you agree with those interests or not-one should lose their usual citizens rights. In other words, no better treatment or consideration than the rest of the enemies.

Freedom of choice...and consequence of action.

I think it should be a clear YES or NO with no grey area or exceptions to the rule.
Either way its fine as long as the government isnt allowed to dictate who its acceptable to join and who it isnt.
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, what one governments calls a "dictatorship" is what another government calls "a strong leadership standing upto global bullies"
In a conflict if govs were to say you can join this side but not that 1 then why not just send in the regular army as they are clearly saying 1 side is right and the other is wrong?

In cases where you do have boots on the ground I think it is different, whether right or wrong a gov cant have its citizens fighting on the opposing side to its Army potentially to killing its soldiers

That said I dont feel comfortable at the thought of Aussies going overseas to fight in other peoples wars, to me whether they join some Oppressed minority to stand upto its corrupt gov, IS or anything inbetween is irrelevant, if you feel so strongly about a cause your willing to head off to another country to kill and possibly be killed then as far as Im concerned you should stay there.
Feel free to join up for whatever slaughter you choose just dont come back!!!!

a reply to: Spider879

We already have US military serving in close partnership with our armed forces over here (Germany), aswell as the other way round, and deployed.

Most prominent examples are probably the appointment of former PzBrig 12 Commander, General Markus Laubenthal as Chief Of Staff of the US Army’s European Command (USAREUR), joint ops like IFOR, or the GMR in Washington DC.

Mercs are dishonourable and the scum of the earth though.

I don't think there should be any problems unless one is seeking to join or fight with a declared terrorist organisation or an entity which operates in opposition to one's home country.

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

In cases where you do have boots on the ground I think it is different, whether right or wrong a gov cant have its citizens fighting on the opposing side to its Army potentially to killing its soldiers

Yes I sure wouldn't want to kill a fellow American,for the record I was USN, but in the example above in civil war Spain we had Americans on both side of the conflict, I don't know how the law may work in this case but killing a fellow American overseas in a conflict that the government had no dog in the fight,is it murder?? manslaughter self defense?? I donno, If America had run with the Nazis and it could have happened, given the fact we had powerful banker families and Politicians who did business with the Axis powers well into the start of the War ,
@ nwtrucker
the French foreign legion is well established and relations with France is tight even in the worst of times so, a face off would be unlikely but loose your citizenship if there is a face off,man that's tough but a solid answer.

originally posted by: daaskapital
I don't think there should be any problems unless one is seeking to join or fight with a declared terrorist organisation or an entity which operates in opposition to one's home country.

Yes but before ISIS was just another free Syrian force,even one of our Pols took a selfie with those guys.

I don't see a problem (I agree with daaskapital above), but Mercs do not get repatriated after war, I believe they just get charged as criminals and executed. So I suppose it is a risk vs reward kind of thing... :/

People should be free to join who they want (providing its not a enemy of one s country).

But they should also be responsible for any consequences.

If a US merc gets captured in say Syria and beheaded I don't want to see Americans or anyone else crying about it as it was that persons choice to go take that risk.

If your not violating the law. Or activly working towards the destruction of your home country, who cares.

It's not like we are the only nation with citizens signing up for merc jobs.

Freedom of choice. I guess choosing to be a merc can go both ways, right or wrong. At least you get rid of a potential traitor if they chose the wrong side. Mercs don't have a good retirement plan anyway.

Is this going to be on Dirty Jobs?

a reply to: ColCurious

A good merc is honorable to their employers contracts and as such is loyal to their employer. Now th eones you are talking about who will betray you for a higher profit are usually the ones who come up dead because thet cant be trusted. You are only as good as your word in the merc business.

Police work for money. technically they are mercs. Soldiers too. they dont do it for free.

originally posted by: crazyewok
People should be free to join who they want (providing its not a enemy of one s country).

But they should also be responsible for any consequences.

If a US merc gets captured in say Syria and beheaded I don't want to see Americans or anyone else crying about it as it was that persons choice to go take that risk.

I believe that's exactly what happened when two U.S. mercenaries got killed and hung from a bridge in Iraq. It was used in the U.S. media to stir up lots of pro-Iraq war sentiment. It seemed to escape the attention of many Americans that, although they were Americans, they were mercenaries.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: ColCurious

A good merc is honorable to their employers contracts and as such is loyal to their employer. Now th eones you are talking about who will betray you for a higher profit are usually the ones who come up dead because thet cant be trusted. You are only as good as your word in the merc business.

Police work for money. technically they are mercs. Soldiers too. they dont do it for free.

Enlisted soldiers swear allegiance to a country (at least our soldiers do). Mercenaries are contract killers for hire. Big difference.

a reply to: Spider879

What's the difference between a mercenary and a hitman?

Enlisted soldiers too are nothing more than corporate / banking enforcers, no matter how you try to dress it up as somehow being "patriotic".
The cause of wars is always some beef between elites, but is always fought by the ordinary people who suffer the most, brainwashed into thinking it's somehow all heroic to die for some rich idiot who wouldn't lift a finger to help their subjects.