Are Atheists Invading Christianity To Destroy People's Faith From Within?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Belief is NOT a choice.

Belief is a confidence in something. I have no confidence in Bible stories.

When I was a little child I believed in fairy tales, magical trees and magical gods. When my mind was mature enough to compare reality with wishes and fantasies, my perspectives shifted.

There is no choice when it comes to what makes sense in one's one mind. I can't force myself to believe in something that makes no sense to me, or to believe something that goes against what my inner moral compass rejects as immoral and wrong.

Well, ok, have confidence in your confidence.

That's still your choice.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: WarminIndy

I didn't ask if it was possible. I didn't ask if you were agnostic or gnostic about it.


I asked if you lack belief that purple frolicking unicorns in Saturns rings rule the universe or if you chose to believe there are no purple frolicking unicorns in Saturns rings ruling the universe.

And I replied that I don't know if there are or not, and then gave links to unicorn constellations.

There can be unicorns dancing on Saturn, but you would like me to think you are talking about physical and tangible, and yet the constellations are physical and tangible.

The question you are asking, in what context?

In the context of physical and tangible beings, then neither you nor I can know if there are. But if I say there are constellations that are unicorns, then there are. But you would like them to be dancing on the rings of Saturn? Suppose one day there is a satellite that is named for a unicorn and it does go to the rings of Saturn, could we say then it is impossible?

Right now, dancing unicorns on the rings of Saturn, in what context?

More insecurity and lack of faith from our Christian members? Why care about what Athiests are doing, im sure your all powerful all knowing God can cope. That's unless you don't really believe those things, which is becoming more obvious everyday

a reply to: WarminIndy

That's still your choice.

Belief is NOT a choice.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You are trying awfully hard to not answer a simple question that was obviously literal.

I never thought I would see someone practicing mental gymnastics on something like that. Thanks for the laugh.


No worries though because your unwillingness to answer directly illustrated perfectly to all how wrong you are about the definition of Atheism rendering your thinly veiled attempt to label atheism as a belief moot.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

That's still your choice.

Belief is NOT a choice.

So you have made an absolute statement.

Are there true absolutes? And because you have made an absolute statement, you therefore believe that you disbelieve. You don't believe in God, ok, because your logic causes you to disbelieve. But it was an active process because you investigated it before your logic led you to disbelieve.

You trust your own logic, so by your logic, it is impossible to believe. And if it is impossible for you to believe, then perhaps your logic is supported only by the evidence you deem important?

And if you place certain evidence above others i.e. your own logic, then when confronted by a choice, do you look at all evidence or only that evidence that you have esteemed?

If you have esteemed certain evidence, then logically, you have made a choice to esteem that evidence, despite other evidence.

For instance, you know that it is illegal to go over the speed limit, but if certain conditions prevailed, would speeding through a school zone in the event of an emergency override your logic of why you should not speed through a school zone? But if you had to think about it, then you made that choice, despite the evidence that it is illegal. Logically, you know it is illegal, and yet other evidence warrants you to make the choice to be illegal.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: WarminIndy

You are trying awfully hard to not answer a simple question that was obviously literal.

I never thought I would see someone practicing mental gymnastics on something like that. Thanks for the laugh.


No worries though because your unwillingness to answer directly illustrated perfectly to all how wrong you are about the definition of Atheism rendering your thinly veiled attempt to label atheism as a belief moot.

I said in what context.

Directly I gave you my answer, if you don't like my answer then don't bother with it.

a reply to: WarminIndy

And I replied that I don't know if there are or not, and then gave links to unicorn constellations.

There can be unicorns dancing on Saturn, but you would like me to think you are talking about physical and tangible, and yet the constellations are physical and tangible.

LOL Constellations are not physical and tangible. There isn't a unicorn dancing in space. Constellations are pictures that are created in the imagination and the minds of men, much like gods are. They are something called Pareidolia But, it doesn't surprise me that you think that they are real! It's just Just like Christians to see something where is doesn't exist and claim it as proof!

a reply to: WarminIndy

You don't believe in God, ok, because your logic causes you to disbelieve

I don't believe in the biblical god or Jesus Christ because it make no logical sense and the biblical doctrine strikes me as wrong and immoral.

You trust your own logic, so by your logic, it is impossible to believe.

Yes. It is impossible to believe what I don't believe.

For instance, you know that it is illegal to go over the speed limit, but if certain conditions prevailed, would speeding through a school zone in the event of an emergency override your logic of why you should not speed through a school zone? But if you had to think about it, then you made that choice, despite the evidence that it is illegal. Logically, you know it is illegal, and yet other evidence warrants you to make the choice to be illegal.

This has nothing to do with religion or god. Something being illegal doesn't mean it's immoral. If there's a logical reason speed to speed, then speeding is logical.

You seem to be trying to convince me that what I deem to be wrong is right and what I deem to right is wrong, and you want me to believe that. That may work with people who don't know who they are or what they really believe, and are easily hypnotized and indoctrinated, but it won't work on people who are aware and that have thought things through.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: WarminIndy

You are trying awfully hard to not answer a simple question that was obviously literal.

I never thought I would see someone practicing mental gymnastics on something like that. Thanks for the laugh.


No worries though because your unwillingness to answer directly illustrated perfectly to all how wrong you are about the definition of Atheism rendering your thinly veiled attempt to label atheism as a belief moot.

I said in what context.

Directly I gave you my answer, if you don't like my answer then don't bother with it.

I already said literal.

Here is another one.

How many gods do you have a belief in?

Just so there is no misunderstanding this is the definition of belief.

be·lief
bəˈlēf/
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
"contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language"
synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
"it's my belief that age is irrelevant"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

You don't believe in God, ok, because your logic causes you to disbelieve

I don't believe in the biblical god or Jesus Christ because it make no logical sense and the biblical doctrine strikes me as wrong and immoral.

You trust your own logic, so by your logic, it is impossible to believe.

Yes. It is impossible to believe what I don't believe.

For instance, you know that it is illegal to go over the speed limit, but if certain conditions prevailed, would speeding through a school zone in the event of an emergency override your logic of why you should not speed through a school zone? But if you had to think about it, then you made that choice, despite the evidence that it is illegal. Logically, you know it is illegal, and yet other evidence warrants you to make the choice to be illegal.

This has nothing to do with religion or god. Something being illegal doesn't mean it's immoral. If there's a logical reason speed to speed, then speeding is logical.

You seem to be trying to convince me that what I deem to be wrong is right and what I deem to right is wrong, and you want me to believe that. That may work with people who don't know who they are or what they really believe, and are easily hypnotized and indoctrinated, but it won't work on people who are aware and that have thought things through.

Well, whatever, don't let me stop you from disbelieving.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: WarminIndy

You are trying awfully hard to not answer a simple question that was obviously literal.

I never thought I would see someone practicing mental gymnastics on something like that. Thanks for the laugh.


No worries though because your unwillingness to answer directly illustrated perfectly to all how wrong you are about the definition of Atheism rendering your thinly veiled attempt to label atheism as a belief moot.

I said in what context.

Directly I gave you my answer, if you don't like my answer then don't bother with it.

I already said literal.

Here is another one.

How many gods do you have a belief in?

Just so there is no misunderstanding this is the definition of belief.

be·lief
bəˈlēf/
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
"contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language"
synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
"it's my belief that age is irrelevant"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"

Neither you nor I can say how many gods there are.

Are you saying impossible or improbable?

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: WarminIndy

You are trying awfully hard to not answer a simple question that was obviously literal.

I never thought I would see someone practicing mental gymnastics on something like that. Thanks for the laugh.


No worries though because your unwillingness to answer directly illustrated perfectly to all how wrong you are about the definition of Atheism rendering your thinly veiled attempt to label atheism as a belief moot.

I said in what context.

Directly I gave you my answer, if you don't like my answer then don't bother with it.

I already said literal.

Here is another one.

How many gods do you have a belief in?

Just so there is no misunderstanding this is the definition of belief.

be·lief
bəˈlēf/
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
"contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language"
synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
"it's my belief that age is irrelevant"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"

Neither you nor I can say how many gods there are.

Are you saying impossible or improbable?

I didn't ask anything about probabilities.

The question is: How many gods do you have a belief in?

Since you are having a comprehension problem your answer should come in the form of a number.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Anyone who claims to know anything about God is telling lies. God begins where humanity's imagination ends.

And out of all the forums in ATS that is why you picked "Religion, Faith, and Theology" to simply let all these nasty ole God believers know that they are liars. Humm? Now that the monkey has spoken I am sure that he also has the answers to the rest of life miseries.

Anyone who claims to know anything about God is telling lies. God begins where humanity's imagination ends.

That statement says a lot of how you think. You say any one (that must include you also) who claims to know anything about God is telling lies. You then say that God begins where humanity's imagination ends. How can you know where God begins when anyone who claims to know anything about God is telling lies? Humm?

How do you know that a literature is flawed? Isn't it common sense to know that all people are flawed? Even you are flawed believe it or not. Because a man is flawed then by your reasoning all that the man does is flawed. The flawed man cannot write perfect literature dictated by a perfect God because if a flawed man has written perfection from a perfect source makes that perfect source flawed. Would that make a perfect God flawed? Humm?

A drunken judge can make a judgment but does that make the judgment a drunken judgment? Think it over.

a reply to: Grimpachi Why do you belittle people? Worms like you ruin what this website is about, respect everyone's opinion unless you can ultimately prove beyond a doubt you are right. Back off and let people speak about this interesting subject.

a reply to: Grimpachi Why do you belittle people? Worms like you ruin what this website is about, respect everyone's opinion unless you can ultimately prove beyond a doubt you are right. Back off and let people speak about this interesting subject.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: jude11

ATS is open for anyone to comment on, so there can be no infiltration if it is open and accessible to everyone.

As per the OP, faith resides in the individual.

I think that if you don't like a Christian exercising their right to comment on an open thread, then ask the owner to modify it and not allow any religious forums at all.

But let me give you an example, there is a thread entitled "Origins and Creation", in which people who do hold to Creation are allowed to comment within, but on that thread, Creationists are attacked, on the very thread for them. So why allow that to happen?

ATS is open and free to comment on whatever you want, there is no infiltration on ATS by Christians. We simply have a forum that allows us to speak. I think it is fair.

Who says that thread is only for creationists?

As per the title of that forum....if you come to a forum entitled that, then expect there to be people talking about Creationism, but to go with the intent of trolling because it is your new fun thing for the day, then expect your voice to be heard little.

You want your rights respected, then respect the rights of others. View/Counterview...Point/Counterpoint. But to just show up on a thread and see the subject matter and jump in immediately with an insult to say "you believers are insane because there is no God", what have you done?

If I disagree with someone, I let them know I disagree. But I never act like you are non-person and allow you to be called names. But you all laugh when certain words are thrown around like "religitard" or even "Repukelican" or "Democrap"...see, calling people names never helps your cause. And laughing about it and not saying to stop, doesn't help the cause of the person you think you are in cahoots with.

In fact, standing back and laughing at this, just makes you look like an internet bully. Some of us though won't be bullied and that just makes some people more angry.

ATS is not a bully pulpit, but if someone comes back at you with the same equal voice, then they aren't bullies, just defensive.

The title does not suggest nor state that it is for pro-creationism posters only.

Yes, I agree. If you want your rights respected, respect the rights of others. Fundamentalists should remember that. Do they want atheists pounding on their doors and stopping them in public and proselytizing to them? Do they want atheists going into chatrooms where they're talking and threatening them with being tortured for eternity? Probably not. So why do fundamentalists do that to others?

I have never jumped into a discussion and said, "You people are insane." Generally, I ask questions or point out when claims of fact are not fact. What's wrong with that?

For some reason, you're bringing politics into this. I thought religion and politics were separate topics.

The worst bullies I've seen in my life were some fundamentalists. Who but a bully would threaten a child with eternal torture? Who but a bully would tell the family of a 13-year-old boy who shot himself that they may as well dump his body in a ditch because he won't be given a Christian burial? That actually happened to a family I know. That's what their fundamentalist preacher told them. I wouldn't say that to my worst enemy.

As for ATS not being a bully pulpit and expecting an equal voice, who's stopping you from having an equal voice? It seems to me that you don't want an equal voice, you want the only voice (ie. no disagreeing with Christians). That's simply not going to happen.

a reply to: maxzen2004

Why do you belittle people? Worms like you

That is a fine example of what is called the pot meeting the Kettle.


Tell you what. If you don't like my comments just don't read them. Especially if you can't respect my opinion without flagrant insults.

Please don't complain about wanting to discuss a topic while at the same time trying to make me the topic.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: maxzen2004
a reply to: MKMoniker I think Atheist who are attacking the Christian religion are Satanists, Atheist don't believe in anything so why attack the Christian religion? If you take God out of government and schools, it will destroy this country. Once you lose Liberty, you will never get it back. Atheist is the perfect disguise for Satanists.

Have you noticed that even the pope say atheists go to heaven without having faith. A sheep is a sheep and Yeshua and the other blessed ones know better than to judge by viewpoint. Atheist are just people who have not gotten a spiritual connection yet. If they are meant to know spiritual things while being alive then it will be revealed to them.

I have wondered why some people think the plural of atheist is atheist. Could you tell me why you think the plural is spelled that way? Is it some kind of derisive slam or secret code or what?

And I have always wondered why atheism is a proof of no God when the definition of atheism is simply a choice to not believe?

So, that's your choice to not believe, it doesn't prove or disprove God, it only proves that it is your choice to not believe and if it is your choice to not believe, then atheism is only founded in the mind of the disbeliever, that is all.

A choice is an active thought process, that is all. But for some atheists, they don't even understand the definition of their world view, which atheism is indeed a world view, nothing more.

I have never heard an atheist state that atheism is proof that God doesn't exist. Never. I wonder if you have. Everyone is born an atheist so that is not a choice. Once one has been indoctrinated in a belief in God and does believe and then chooses to stop believing, that is a choice.

I guess you'll have to define what you mean by "world view". If atheism is a world view, isn't Christianity a world view, too? What's wrong with having a world view?

originally posted by: maxzen2004
a reply to: Grimpachi Why do you belittle people? Worms like you ruin what this website is about, respect everyone's opinion unless you can ultimately prove beyond a doubt you are right. Back off and let people speak about this interesting subject.

You've spoken your piece. No one has told you to shut up. Why do Grimpachi's posts threaten you so much that you need to try to silence him up with insults and ignorant name calling?

What have you added to the conversation? Oh yeah, you said that anyone who criticizes Christianity is a Satanist. LOL!