BIBLE: Unerring Word of God? Or manipulated by satan since Constantine?

originally posted by: 3n19m470
I'm not sure on this, although I do consider myself to be a follower and believer of Christ and his teachings. But they say the best way to spread misinformation is to include some truth in it. So with that said, I do believe the bible contains some important information. Since I wasn't there, the best I can do is to use my own best judgement, which can be a very precarious situation, trusting your own judgement... your own, flawed, human perception. But its all we have, and with experience you can hone your own mind into a trustworthy tool, but keep in mind it is not impervious to deception.

In a way, we cannot really be held to fault, if we are geniunely trying. Because we do not have all the necessary informstion or the tools to make a proper determination. But I do stand by the teachings of Jesus about love and kindness and forgiveness and faith in God. It rings true for me.

You sound like me. Get out of my head!

I am sorry I don't have the time to respond to everyone. Thank you for all of your input!
I am impressed there was only 1 so far with the

Grow up and face reality. Do something useful.

attitude.
I have a lot of research to do now, thank you all for many different pathways to approach.
I pray we ALL find truth.
Steve
ETA: for what it is worth, I will post my progress here, maybe it can help others in a similar situation.

a reply to: stosh64
You are inculcated.
I am sorry to say that NOTHING in this Universe possesses an absolute TRUTH, other than this sentence.

The fact that you are troubled by discrepancies in a tome written by MEN over a period of 3-5 thousand year period is because you BELIEVE that this is the 'word' of your god.
If you look carefully at the bible, you'll find that much of it is not particularly sacred. It's wrapped up with mundane matters which are no longer even a concern to YOU. They talk of miracles but nobody external to the sources of the tale supports this history.

I was talking to a Rabbi and he was telling me that the 'rib of Adam' isn't actually a freaking rib. The Aramaic word is for something completely different. (Essence is close. The Bi-Cameral Mind divided into two carriers.) This misconception has resulted in how much heartache, prejudice and demeaning?
BTW, He did believe in god.

If you want to become a Biblical Scholar so that you can resolve all the BS added, subtracted and politically tuned for your 'edification' plan on decades of effort. My acquaintance told me that Talmudic Scholars can spend three centuries sorting out opinions from their predecessors.
Thinking that there is a bypass to certain knowledge, avoiding all the requisite effort, only will contribute to your long term dissatisfaction.
Good luck with this.
I became an agnostic as this BS is not worth the effort to sort out.

For those who are interested about trying to make sense of how energy in different forms create the 3D we live in I would recommend you to read up on:
1 Double slit experiment (to understand the idea of probability fields and how the field control what nature the energy will have and where it is allowed to exist).
2 Quantum entanglement and the Quantum teleportation of information that have been done. This since it gives you the idea on how two different parts in space time can be connected even if they are far apart (even light years apart).
3 You might wanna look into theories about 3D around you as an holographic projection.
4 Synchronicity. Quantum effect on conscious level of awareness.

For those who are interested in "laying of hands"/"how the body self healing works"/"increasing the placebo effect" I would recommend Reiki if you have not other tool that you are more interested in.

Are not all religious books manipulated, by man, for control of the masses?

according to, for instance, Jews, Muslims and Christians, their holy books are "the word of god", yet are compiled selectively by man, and open to abuse. Such abuse usually takes the form of the "scholars" and their relentless discussion of how it is to be interpreted.

Interpreted? Excuse me? Isn't that arrogantly second guessing what the prophets / messiahs or gods were saying?

As an example, we had a senior Muslim cleric in Saudi Arabia hilariously making the ruling that building snowmen was forbidden, and giving rather vague reasons why. Surely, if somewhere in the Koran, the prophet said, "thou shalt not build snowmen", then it's a black and white issue. However, as nowhere in the Koran does it say such a thing (I am taking a wild stab in the dark here) then it is up to the interpretation by the clerics of other passages to make the ruling, however ridiculous it may be.

That is the problem with all this religious BS! The actual "word of god" or phophets / messiahs, has become secondary to the interpretations of men, who will twist things around to suit their own warped and rather nasty need for control over others. That goes especially for all 3 main Abrahamic branches, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, that are all run by rather nasty, murderous and self important tyrants.

a reply to: stosh64

First off, confusion about the Bible and the Lord is natural. We're inundated from an early age, as to what is supposedly right and wrong. Yet we read the Bible, and our beliefs are challenged by God. Our secular upbringing clouds our reasoning. You fear that the Bible has been altered, which is just a lack of faith. Secularists will tell you that Constantine this, and corrupt that, but in the end, they cannot produce any corruption, just some postulation as to why there would be any, as if there automatically were. You see, it's all part of the game, they've been trying (unsuccessfully) for YEARS to tell people that the Bible is wrong, and that believers just need to 'grow up, and live in the real world.' Problem is, their 'World' is an infection, that spreads like cancer. Their 'world' tells you that your nothing more than an insignificant bag of bodily fluids, with no hope, no future, and no purpose. You, SIr/Madam DO HAVE A PURPOSE, and it's not to buy things to float the economy, it's not to get out and vote, it's to serve God, in whatever capacity you can. He doesn't expect miracles, he just expects effort.

All in all you have a choice. Believe your Enemy, who hates you and does His utmost to oppress you, steal you light, and lead you into temptation, and therefor Hell. Or, you can believe your Creator, who just wants you to spend the rest of eternity with Him, not sure what the issue is really, it's pretty simple. People somehow think that God is bad because he doesn't deal with BS, I think that is one of His greatest virtues.

Thank you, I would appreciate it if you would post more info as you find it.

One thing that blows my mind is from 20,000 to 40,000 different Christian denominations.

How can that be when they are all based on basically the same book?

a reply to: stosh64 Just one example but Martin Luther never started the Leutherian Church . en.wikipedia.org... Some denominations will use a doctrine like baptism . Not all churches are considered denominational . Some turn into large organisations like the RCC or The Church of England .

a reply to: the2ofusr1
Thank you for the video and links in your first post.
I just got done watching this.
It made a lot of sense.
I had started reading other versions when all this doubt crept in.
I believe what I have been feeling is HIS Spirit saying WAKE UP, that is NOT my word.
I know a lot of posters don't believe that, but it is what the Spirit in me is telling me.
Thank you the2ofusr1.
God Bless

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
a reply to: stosh64

First off, confusion about the Bible and the Lord is natural. We're inundated from an early age, as to what is supposedly right and wrong. Yet we read the Bible, and our beliefs are challenged by God. Our secular upbringing clouds our reasoning. You fear that the Bible has been altered, which is just a lack of faith. Secularists will tell you that Constantine this, and corrupt that, but in the end, they cannot produce any corruption, just some postulation as to why there would be any, as if there automatically were. You see, it's all part of the game, they've been trying (unsuccessfully) for YEARS to tell people that the Bible is wrong, and that believers just need to 'grow up, and live in the real world.' Problem is, their 'World' is an infection, that spreads like cancer. Their 'world' tells you that your nothing more than an insignificant bag of bodily fluids, with no hope, no future, and no purpose. You, SIr/Madam DO HAVE A PURPOSE, and it's not to buy things to float the economy, it's not to get out and vote, it's to serve God, in whatever capacity you can. He doesn't expect miracles, he just expects effort.

All in all you have a choice. Believe your Enemy, who hates you and does His utmost to oppress you, steal you light, and lead you into temptation, and therefor Hell. Or, you can believe your Creator, who just wants you to spend the rest of eternity with Him, not sure what the issue is really, it's pretty simple. People somehow think that God is bad because he doesn't deal with BS, I think that is one of His greatest virtues.

Amen to that and thank you.
We, or rather I, speaking for myself only, tend to wander at times.
HE has HIS way of getting me back on track.
I think HE just did that, thanks to help from people like you.....

The bible wasn't meant to be read by all men.

It used to be that only those in the Priest Class and Nobility could read it.

It is a "restricted book".

Today, anybody can pick up the bible and look into it. Because it's been translated from restricted languages like "LATIN" into the common language. But, it remains a "restricted book", because you still have to know how to interpret it.

If you tried reading it, and found it confusing, you're in good company.

However, the good news is that you don't need the bible.

The LORD has promised that the time will come when you will know what you need to know automatically, without reading anything at all.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. -- Jeremiah 31:33

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. -- Jeremiah 31:34

When that time comes, you won't have to "read", and for those who can't read, they won't have to have some "Priest read" and interpret the book to tell them the message relevant to their life.

That means, no more going to Church, to listen to the word, according to some preacher's interpretation.

You'll just know.

In the mean time, have fun. Read it as much as you like. But, don't expect to be able to understand all the messages in the book. Nobody does. Not even the Priests who wrote it.


But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and "SEAL THE BOOK", even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. -- Daniel 12:4

So for some parts of the book, even the Priests have to wait until we're nearing the "end of days" before the meaning of the text will become clear.

The Bible is like a "time release capsule". It's content begins to make sense as we enter new times.

So maybe in another few thousand years, it'll make sense?

a reply to: Aliian

originally posted by: Woodcarver
So maybe in another few thousand years, it'll make sense?

a reply to: Aliian

I think it's 3000 years from the birth of Christ. I based this on the following words of the text:

And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. -- Matthew 26:61

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. -- 2 Peter 3:8

The reasoning is as follows. The temple of the lord is the human body. Jesus was accused of saying that he was able to destroy this temple and re-build in in 3 days, but in Peter we learn that 1 day of the lord is 1000 years our time. So, that's 3000 years to rebuild the temple. So, in 3000 years mankind on earth will have been totally re-designed, with the stone put back in that allows man to know the LORD without reading scriptures, then it will be finished.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Thank you for your post and I love the scripture you posted.

In my mind there is no doubt Jesus is my savior. And I feel Blessed he is taking me on a Journey.

You have answered your own question, and can count yourself as a new kind of Christian that has showed up, one who thinks life is a journey with a purpose, and that even though the Bible will never again be read by him, the core tenets of the useless book are his Captor.

Believing that you need a Savior is mental slavery , and the fact you feel something is talking to you and making you feel good inside the prison is classic.

You are unable to progress beyond, you have made your choice, and you will never actually know any real truth, you are occupied with staying inside the box, might as well enjoy it huh !!

Or, maybe one day soon something will reveal that this Jesus you are speaking too, is a form of energy you could access with FAR more amazing and dramatic results than the fearful masses are allowed to think about, and Christianity, is the KING OF GATEKEEPERS that make sure you stay right where you are!!

a reply to: stosh64

Time becomes a pretty good - yet sometimes slow- way of personal learning. Lets hope and pray for many years ahead for that is how i so learned.

originally posted by: stosh64
Disclaimer: There were always parts of the bible that just didn't make sense to me.
I am not referring to the supernatural parts or even the slaughter of whole tribes. I believe that is related to the fallen ones and is for another thread.

One part, why did God tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac? First it doesn't seem like something God would do to 'test' man, and Abraham never questioned the spirit like Jesus tells us to, and an Angel of the Lord stops him at the last second. Why didn't the Angel tell him to do it in the first place. Is it possible he was tempted by satan and God stepped in at the last moment to prevent this evil act?
First John 4:1

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;…

Please don't focus just on that example. My question is much bigger than that.

You cant just take a section out of one area, isolate a part without finishing, then jump to another area to support your conclusion that is based on an incomplete rendering. If you read just a bit further ahead the answer to your question is right there. Not surprised you are confused. This is nothing but a common hack job you have done here. I even suspect you may know that.

a reply to: Aliian

Or you could pray for the gift of interpretation, believe that you will receive it, and then it will be yours. This is the promise in the texts. Anyone could receive the interpretation if they have faith that God would give it to them.

As an interesting exploration, try looking up references to 'hell' in the Bible. You will find 'sheol', the garbage pit, but you won't find hell. It is a man made concept to control us with fear. If you keep digging, you will wonder if anything you previously believed is true. Be careful though, there are evil spirits, as well as good spirits.

This at first seems very disheartening but there is a light. When Jesus is quoted, pay attention. In the end you will find that you are judged by what is in your heart, no matter what religion you claim. I doubt you will claim a religion at that point but you will be closer to God than most. I can't give you a short cut, other than to realize there is a God, and he wants the best for you. A holy book can give you a start, but you have to find the message and take it to heart. That is when your true growth and joy will begin.

I was educated in a Christian school from 1st grade through graduation. 12 years of bible class, church-like assemblies twice a week, and being taught that the Bible is infallible.

When I was 11, I started to question the validity of the Bible and here are some questions I asked myself then that you should ask yourself now (keep in mind these were the musings of an 11 year old who'd only been exposed to Christianity):

1) If the Holy Bible is actually the unerring word of the "one true almighty god", why do other religions exist at all? Why did the basis of Judeo Christian beliefs not come along until around 150 BC? Why did god change so much from the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) to the New Testament? Why did Christians basically steal the religion from the Jews and change it to make it more palatable?

2) If Christianity is the one true religion and god sends all others to hell, why would he punish people for something that is out of their control? Example, a person is born in India and their family is Hindu. They grow up knowing Hindu is the one true religion and no one has ever told them differently. They live a good life and die one day, waking up in hell for eternity because they had the misfortune of not being born in a predominately Christian region. Also what happens to all the people who died before Christianity existed? Do they also burn in hell?

3) Perhaps the reason that the Bible fails to mention dinosaurs is because they were unknown at that time... not just because god didn't deem it necessary to inform people that the earth was once ruled by huge lizards or that "the devil planted the evidence to confuse us."

4) If the flood story is accurate, how did Noah and his family spread out to every continent on Earth and form different races of people? Speaking of which, how did all the animals repopulate Earth without going extinct? One can say "god is all-powerful so he helped the animals survive," in which case the question must be asked "if god is all powerful, why didn't he just let the animals live instead of requiring two of each species on the ark in the first place?" In fact, why didn't he just snap his all-powerful fingers and make the bad people disappear instead of wiping out the earth with a flood?

5) The entire sacrifice story makes no sense. Why does an all-powerful being need to send a physical representation of "his son" to die just to forgive people's sins so they don't have to make animal sacrifices anymore? Couldn't god just appear in a cloud and say "hey everyone, you are forgiven now... stop sacrificing animals"? The cloud appearance would certainly gain a lot more convinced followers than having some guy get killed who claims to be the son of god. Come on, god, where's the theatrics? If Jesus supposedly performed so many miracles, god certainly isn't above putting on a show to prove a point.

6) Adam and Eve... again, we get into the conundrum of two original people creating the diversity of race that we see today. Also, as if there weren't enough holes in the story, after Cain kills Able, the Bible says that he went to "the land of Nod" with his wife. Wait a minute... where did Cain's wife come from? Cain says "anyone who finds me will kill me" so god marks him to make sure no one kills him... but who is Cain afraid of if there are no other people on Earth at this time?

7) Why are so many Old Testament rules now ignored by Christians if the Bible is infallible? Try these on for size, all punishable by death:
Adultery, BEING raped if you're an "engaged female virgin", sex with a woman while on her period, eating a cheeseburger, eating fat, eating pork, eating anything not kosher, being uncircumcised, working on the sabbath, planting more than one type of seed in a field, wearing clothing woven with more than one type of cloth, cutting the hair on the sides of your head or trimming your beard.
Even the New Testament says that slaves can't be disobedient and women can't speak in church...


I'll stop here and let you ponder those questions for now.

Last time I leafed through the OT I felt like bouncing the book off the wall. Morality? Ethics? Principles? Warped at best, dangerous at worst. Abraham almost killed his son op, but there are tales in the bible of infanticide to please God where there was no angelic intervention to put a halt to the dastardly deed - Jephtah and his daughter for example. Jephtah's actions amount to child sacrifice....surely there can be no greater evil? Or Passover? The celebration of God's spirit taking the first born from every Egyptian household.....it is a celebration of death...not life, and imo another demonstration of evil.

However, when I read some of the contents of the Nag Hammadi library I discovered that they have been written to assist human thinking to expand our comprehension of massive time scales and spaces - they were not written to be taken literally - they make for meditative and contemplative reading. Reading the Nag Hammadi scrolls for me is a spiritual experience that helps us place ourselves in time and space - not a guilt trip written to keep us in our place.

Nag Hammadi Codex Index

a reply to: stosh64

Your hypothesis is as good as any. Here is something to
consider, that maybe Jehovah is really the bad guy.

I'm being serious, I'm not making fun; I studied the bible
extensively, and yes this is one example of many that
confused me as well, until I took a more in depth study
of the first five books of the bible from GEN 1:1,
where it states that Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

Later on two other (gods) show up, Jehovah (or Yahweh) and
Adoni.

As I used the code in the original King James to tell who is who
it became clear to me that Adoni and especially Jehovah are
bad guys who pretend to be Elohim.

The code is this:

God=Elohim
Lord God=Jehova/Yahweh
Lord=Adoni

Then just go back and read the OT,
I think things will start to become more clear.

Rebel 5

a reply to: stosh64

That was a question that is very interesting but i know it was ishmael his first son but anyways to shed any light, it was a test for him before he became the leader of all of mankind. It was to show him and reward him for his utmost devotion to God. The devil came to Ismael and told him what had come to his father and he was ready. When satan came to Abraham he probably beat him up. His son was ready to be sacrificed, death to prophets is completely different than how we see it. To them it is only an exit and and entrance, the moment they have been waiting for their whole life, to meet there Lord, there Master. And second it was only a test, an angel stopped it before it occured by the order of their Lord.