BIBLE: Unerring Word of God? Or manipulated by satan since Constantine?

a reply to: OpinionatedB
So you do believe its is just the way God would have written it. Satan had no input, through say Constantine, to try and deceive through the bible?
Sorry so short, will write more later.
Thank you, I was hoping you would contribute.

Religion = control
When you speak, God is speaking.
When your breathe, God is breathing.
God is You, and everything around You. This is the secret the religionists don't want you to know.

originally posted by: Q33323
Religion = control
When you speak, God is speaking.
When your breathe, God is breathing.
God is You, and everything around You. This is the secret the religionists don't want you to know.

You're told to "fear The Lord." Fear, is bondage. Fear is limits. Fear is destruction. There is nothing to fear.

originally posted by: stosh64

This has not been an easy thing for me to consider.

I respect the courage you have shown to question - but something tells me that a whole bunch of ATS atheists telling you that will not be comforting.

originally posted by: Jamie1
a reply to: stosh64

The teachings are inherently contradictory.

If Satan is the ruler of the earth, and Satan is the great deceiver, then if I were Satan I would pretend I was Jesus and get everybody to believe I was their savior.

Corroborating evidence of atrocities committed in the name of Jesus support this theory, right?

A few years ago I would have just dismissed your comment, but I am leaning toward agreeing with you now.

That is huge for me...

It doesn't affect my belief in God or Jesus, but it puts 'religion' in a whole new context.
Thank you.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
To me it's both. I think there's truth in there as much as there's fiction. No doubt it's been edited and reworked to fit certain agendas. Personally my feeling is the Church (the Vatican) has been infiltrated or was always deliberately pushing people down the wrong path.

But it has to be said, no matter how much truth there is, there will always be people who will rewrite it, misinterpret it or even try to redefine certain parts for whatever reasons.

It is the only thing that is starting to make sense. All the twisted agendas throughout the ages from 'religion'.

So many different interpretations from the same book. I cant believe He would make it, the bible, this way.

And my heart tells me He didn't.

I also still believe there are truths in it, but, and this is huge for me, I can see how it has also been twisted nefariously.

Have I been misled? Is it possible the Bible was assembled as a control tool by Constantine. To appease the growing Christian populace, to divide it. Used as a tool by satan to lead astray?

a reply to: stosh64

Do you still intend to use the bible to guide you spiritually?

How do you intend to separate the wheat from the chaff i.e. the 'divinely inspired' from the corupted text ?

a reply to: stosh64

It is how God explained it to many people over the course of time. Yes. Did Satan have a hand in it, No. Not if you do not accept anything but the protestant cannon.

Do you understand how you get severe discrepancies in doctrine? It's when you only accept part of what scripture says on the topic. Say.. I don't want a God who wants us to do anything at all after accepting Christ.. I can do that provided I simply discount much of scripture to have it my way.

The only way you get it right HIS way, is when you die to this world. So long as you are sowing good seed in thorn bushes, you will have an imperfect understanding of the bible.

originally posted by: KidOK
Welcome to the beginning of the road to Atheism or Agnosticism.

I had the same questions as you, and started out seeking the truth of the Bible. I was raised Southern Baptist and was taught Biblical Inerrancy. In my early 20s I started to actually research the beginnings of the Judaism and Christianity and looking at it from both sides. When I was young we didn't have the internet. All everyone knew was what your preacher taught and your parents/community/friends said and believed. Since the internets arrival, its very easy to get both sides of view.

Once you start looking into it, you realize that the Bible is not perfect. From there you say to yourself, well, if that one thing is not correct then what else in the bible is not correct. Then it proceeds down the different paths of biblical forgeries (apologists call this Psuedographia), non-evidence of major events and characters, copying of past religions, etc. It can be quite exhausting researching everything, trying to make sense of it, and separating the BS from the truth. The last one is especially hard as everyone says they are right.

Ill post some things later that contributed to me not believing in the bible anymore. As a start, look into Bart Ehrmans work.

I appreciate what you said. thank you.
I don't feel like I am losing my faith. In fact, my belief is stronger than ever.
I don't know how to explain it, its like He reached down and shook me and said 'snap out of it, see the truth'

I am more sure than ever that Jesus Christ is my Savior, I wish I could just share this feeling.
I have been seeking Him lately, more and more. I stopped reading the Bible, no real reason that I know of, and I have just been spending time alone talking to the big Guy. I don't know, I get the feeling maybe he is answering me.
I know it sounds crazy, buts that's what has been happening.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1


We Christians do not get the bible from Constantine and Nicaea .Who ever your source for that info is you should study the matter yourself ,then correct your source . .. Here are a few sources to spend some time with . Chuck Missler www.youtube.com...

Micheal Heiser www.youtube.com...

Firefighters for Christ firefighters.org...

Oh and a lecture on the bible and the differing versions and how the sources came to be . A must watch for any bible believing Christian imo a reply to: stosh64

Thank you for all that, this is what I was hoping for as a response. Just to clarify again, my Faith has never been stronger, But something has me questioning certain things.
I am going to watch all those links, I love missler.
I'll comment after I watch them.
Thank you.

a reply to: borntowatch
Thank you, I have been asking Him LOTS of questions as of late. And it might sound nuts but I feel Him answering.

I am interested in anything about how the bible was brought together. So any ideas for me I would appreciate.

originally posted by: stosh64
Disclaimer: Please, if you are just going to bash the belief in Jesus, or state how ignorant believers of any faith are, move along, nothing to see here.

I have this dilemma as of late.
I was raised in a Baptist church, and was taught the Bible IS the UNERRING Word of God. To question that is evil wrought by satan.

There were always parts of the bible that just didn't make sense to me.
I am not referring to the supernatural parts or even the slaughter of whole tribes. I believe that is related to the fallen ones and is for another thread.

One part, why did God tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac? First it doesn't seem like something God would do to 'test' man, and Abraham never questioned the spirit like Jesus tells us to, and an Angel of the Lord stops him at the last second. Why didn't the Angel tell him to do it in the first place. Is it possible he was tempted by satan and God stepped in at the last moment to prevent this evil act?
First John 4:1

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;…

Please don't focus just on that example. My question is much bigger than that.

All through the early days of the church, there was no 'written' Word. All the inspiration for spreading the Gospel was through the indwelling of Holly Spirit.
In fact. John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Have I been, as MANY others, wrong in thinking the Bible IS the PERFECT Word of God.

Is studying the Bible NOT what God wants us to do? Is it time misplaced, and encouraged by satan? Time that should be spent seeking His spirit, seeking communion with Him, seekin the indwelling of His Spirit?
There are a couple videos I found VERY thought provoking:

Does God tempt man?
James 1:13

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

Have I been misled?
Is it possible the Bible was assembled as a control tool by Constantine. To appease the growing Christian populace, to divide it. Used as a tool by satan to lead astray?
Look at all the focus on different dogmas, all the time and effort wasted on mans interpretation.
All the different Bible versions.
How many different sects of Christianity fight over different interpretations of the Bible?
Who appointed the Pope as Christ on earth?
The Spirit in me cries out, this isn't what HE wants for us.

Should Christians instead be seeking to nurture a personal relationship with God, through Jesus. Asking for indwelling of the Holy Spirit, to guide us and give us discernment?

This has not been an easy thing for me to consider.

I do not feel EVERY word in the Bible is false. I just feel we need discernment, from the Holy Spirit, to distinguish Truth.

But it FEELS right, like the Holy Spirit has guided me to this revelation.
I have spent a lot of time praying and asking Him to show me the Truth.

He did say in the latter days all would be revealed.

I know there are a few Bible scholars on ATS, and many that are very knowledgeable as to the process that went into assembly of our modern Bible.
I appreciate any and all constructive input on this subject.
If some feel the need to belittle, mock or antagonize due to the subject matter, please try to refrain.

I look forward to learning TRUTH, whatever that truth is.
Thank you for your time,
Steve

ETA: I hope that was coherent and not rambling to much.
It was something I had to get out there and 'style' wasn't my focus.

Well, I don't think the Bible is inerrant. One, the Canon was decided by man, with many books and sects being declared heretical in the first 5 centuries AD, such as the Arians and Gnostics. Those books and sects were purged. Second, there are so many problems with the Bible, for example God telling the Israelites to commit genocide on the native Canaanites. Or, the apparent Young Earth teaching in Genesis. The scientific evidence does not support a young Earth.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Thank you for your post and I love the scripture you posted.

In my mind there is no doubt Jesus is my savior. And I feel Blessed he is taking me on a Journey.

Sounds like you are being led to here:

Gnostic Church

And honestly if you think hard about it today's Christians follow the Roman established Religion. Rome killed Jesus and perhaps killed his teachings as well through sensor and re-write and outright exclusion of the word. The Gnostic scriptures where dug from the ground and never changed or edited since buried in the desert Long before Constantine.

I personally do not believe the Bible to be the unerring word of God, or that it has been manipulated by Satan at any point in time. In the past, when I was a Christian, I may have entertained such beliefs. However as I got older and started asking questions it became evident to me that there is no possible way Christianity (any denomination or personal interpretation of what it means to be Christian) has the truth on its side. These days I prefer to identify as a simple atheist. I found there to be many things that didn't add up, and were completely backwards to the feel good Christian message. For example, I feel the Christian God is one of the most immoral deities I've ever read about. I won't dive into all my issues here (unless you're interested in some of them ofc). It took a long time for me to confidently say, without fear of being wrong, that I no longer was a Christian.

Klassified said it nicely I think:

originally posted by: Klassified
If you are asking the questions. It is time to seek out the answers. This is the point where you must decide if the truth is more important than what you believe. If it is, you may, or may not like what you find. If it is not, you'll find what you want to find.

a reply to: LittleByLittle
Thank you for sharing that.

I have to tell you one thing that concerns me in your story.

There are many entities out there capable of doing this. Not all have your best interest at heart.

Some will let you feel this euphoria, kind of like a drug, get you hooked, and lead you down the wrong path.

I ask one thing of you, question this entity. Ask if it is of Jesus, if it isn't you will know.

I only say this because I care. You can take it for what its worth. Cant hurt to question it, I do and He has been answering, in a way.
I hope this didn't offend you and you will consider what I said.
God Bless

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: stosh64
This is a road you are going to have to travel on your own, OP. The Xtians are going to give any reason they can to convince you to think their way. The heathens are going to do the same. You are going to have to ask the questions, and answer them to your satisfaction on your own.

If you are asking the questions. It is time to seek out the answers. This is the point where you must decide if the truth is more important than what you believe. If it is, you may, or may not like what you find. If it is not, you'll find what you want to find.

Very well said! I know I will be told THIS is right and NO THIS is right.
I am after information, and there is no information I am afraid of.
I am enjoying my journey at the moment.
Thanks for your help along the way.
Steve

a reply to: stosh64

Have I been, as MANY others, wrong in thinking the Bible IS the PERFECT Word of God.

Pretty much, the originals in Hebrews for the OT and Greek for the NT are inerrant according to Christianity. The translations into other languages have known errors and mistranslations.

Is it possible the Bible was assembled as a control tool by Constantine.

Check your history, Constantine only legalized Christianity, ending the persecutions of Christians. It was his 2nd successor Theodosius II who made it the official religion of the Roman Empire.

What about some of the translations Dr. Scott McQuate has done on the Hebrew in the OT?

a reply to: stosh64

So you do believe its is just the way God would have written it. Satan had no input, through say Constantine, to try and deceive through the bible?

Oh he sure did, he expurgated a lot of the text in the Alexandrian codecies. And Westcott and Hort were two men who had a great deal of contempt for the Textus Receptus and formed their own Greek that most modern Bibles rely upon.

The NIV is commonly called "satan's Bible".