BIBLE: Unerring Word of God? Or manipulated by satan since Constantine?

Hahahaha.

Nothing to see here? you got that right.

reams and reams of backward superstitious nonsense.

Keep cuddling your daft non existent supernatural teddy bears.

No wonder the world has the problems it does with so many burying their head in the sand instead of dealing with problems.

Who needs to when you have a God that will solve all your life's problems for you if you pray to him enough?

Sorry Muppets, but those of us who live in reality have to actually solve our problems for ourselves instead of waiting for the fairies to do it for us.

Grow up and face reality. Do something useful.

originally posted by: stosh64

originally posted by: Q33323
Religion = control
When you speak, God is speaking.
When your breathe, God is breathing.
God is You, and everything around You. This is the secret the religionists don't want you to know.

I agree, man made religion is control.
However, through my own personal experiences, some rather recent, I can say for myself God is NOT me.

A part of His spirit resides in me now I believe, through His grace He gave that to me.

But I am NOT God. He is a being that exists far out side of my little reality. But I know He loves me like a son.

More than I love my own son, which is hard for me to imagine.

From my point of view. I think if you more like a cell in gods body that is temporarily disconnected from the whole to play around and understand things. Some of us cannot handle the disconnect and need the connection to be able to handle this place. How connected we are depends on the individual soul. Feeling that you are apart of another is the highest level of love (oneness).

a reply to: ausername

There are a lot of bible fanatics that are going to be shocked to learn the truth on the other side...

In a way it is one of the biggest practical jokes ever made. Jesus telling people on what standard the spirit will judge people and then refusing to listen to that part, doing exactly what he said they should not do. But from my point of view it becomes an over exaggeration when you have the view of hell that Christians have. Having to understand the mirror of what you have done and repairing it is bad enough.

originally posted by: gooseandspoons
a reply to: NOTurTypical

i believe it is the ktav ashuri and ktva ivri that he translates

That is a type of script, or "font" of Hebrew.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: NOTurTypical

All versions of the bible teach that Jesus is the savior who rose from the dead to forgive sins.

Not exactly, but that's close enough.

That's the biggest deception of all.

What deception? Jesus forgave sins before He was even crucified, that's one of the keys to His deity. Only God can forgive sins. Remember him reading the heart of the scribe who heard Him say to the cripple "Your sins are forgiven you."

Jesus says that in order for your sins to be forgiven, you must forgive others sins against you.

Did He say "in order to"? (as a prerequisite) Or did He say that if you are unforgiving the Father in heaven wouldn't forgive that person of their sins?

a reply to: houstonvince

and what seems to be added once Constantine decided Christianity would be the religion of his empire.

False.

Theodosius II made Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine only ended the persecution of Christians.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Well I believe then that a simple google search may help you find your answers. His name is DR. Scott McQuate

originally posted by: gooseandspoons
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Well I believe then that a simple google search may help you find your answers. His name is DR. Scott McQuate

Okay, I'll look tomorrow sometime, I've got some work to do before bed. Take it easy, God bless.

This seems interesting.

Christianity=astronomical events

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

a reply to: stosh64

My favored etymology for the word "Religion" places its origin with the Latin word "Religare" ("Re" + "Ligare"). "Re", meaning; "again", and "Ligare", which means "to bind", "to tie down", and "to hold back".

A far more likely derivation, one that suits the idea of religion in its simple beginning, is that given by Lactantius, in his "Divine Institutes", IV, xxviii. He derives religion from religare (to bind): "We are tied to God and bound to Him [religati] by the bond of piety, and it is from this, and not, as Cicero holds, from careful consideration [relegendo], that religion has received its name."

New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia

However, popular etymology among the later ancients (Servius, Lactantius, Augustine) and the interpretation of many modern writers connects it with religare "to bind fast"

Online Etymology Dictionary

Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Latin definition for:
ligo, ligare, ligavi, ligatus

Definitions:
1. bind, tie, fasten
2. unite

Latin Dictionary

Ligare: the Late Latin word ligare (to bind; to tie; bind, tie, fasten)

MyEtymology

'THAT' which we call God, Higher Self, Spirit, Consciousness, Life Force, or Energy is very real. Spirituality is being aware of 'THAT'. Mysticism is experiencing 'THAT'. Religion is vain enslavement to the ideas about 'THAT'.

The Bible contains Spirituality, Mysticism, and Religion. It's depth of wisdom or cultivation of suffering is dependent upon the heart and mind of the individual.

originally posted by: Rex282
a reply to: stosh64


Is the bible to blame..no…it is the sand the believer builds their house (prison) upon. Brick by brick (doctrine by doctrine) until it can no longer stand and falls in on them.

Is the Bible to blame?

Perhaps. It is a False Authority in the lives of many people.
That much we can say for certain.

However, those under False Authority need only wake up
and reclaim their own Autonomy. Not an easy thing to do,
but the point is the blame rests with the True Believer and
not the object of worship--not the "Holy Book" they read.

Jesus told the religious leaders of his time that they studied
the scripture in vain. People still do that to this day. Consider
what is recorded (John 5:39).

“You study the scripture in vain, thinking that by doing so
you will gain eternal life.”

Jesus also told those Jewish leaders that those same scripture
they studied testified of him. He pointed out that if their father
was God, then they would know he was send by God. Because they
did not know him, Jesus told these proud and pious leaders of Israel
that their father was Satan—the father of lies. It was statements like
that which provoked them to hatred and violence.

The blame rest with those who Eric Hoffer called "the true believer"
but these individual do more than merely build their own house (theology)
for themselves... the prison they build is designed to hold others...

First, theology is a trap for the individual... where we can intellectualize our
faith until it is no longer faith (and becomes chess)... and Second, we can
place the same bonds (False Authority) on others that we place on ourselves...

Thirdly, those "saints" who empower and enable their own "psycho" leaders
are now playing the roll of a friendly prison guard for everyone else. When
the "saints" take issue with the "psycho" leader they can get shown to the
door (or thrown out the window of the Ivory Tower.)

Playing bible chess(theology) is a dangerous game and always ends in heartache and delusion.The creator God is completely capable of communicating(communing)with whomever they please…even inside that prison.The scriptures purpose is to be a testimony that testifies of Yahoshua(the creator God is deliverance/salvation).When that is known it served it’s sole purpose.

God can speak to anyone. I think that is true, however, when our heads are
full of religious guilt and shame the voice of God can sound distorted to us.
In short, the authority of God's voice can be usurped by our programming.

I agree. When the Bible reveals the Living God Most High to someone,
it has done it's work. It has served it's purpose. To make it a rule book
is to do a grave disservice.

The fact is the creator God will not commune with anyone through a book of writing because it is not the “word of the living creator God”.The creator God is not the God of the dead but of the living.When the house built on sand falls the believer will be picked up and freed from their prison of religion… but not a second sooner.

The Bible, made into a rule book, is a False Authority.

The problem is people pray for instruction and then go to the wrong source to get it.

So we seek validation for our beliefs, and once we find a group of people who hold the same beliefs, we then assume those beliefs are not wrong. When we assimilate into such a group, we soon forget Jesus warning not to judge others. In our group think mentality, judging others outside our group becomes involuntary. The problem with this line of thinking ought to be obvious—everyone does it. Everyone thinks they are not wrong, but that doesn't make everyone right.

The problem with belief is that we don’t know what we don’t know, and our beliefs are always changing based on new information. This is why a relationship with God ought to be based experience and not just the dogma or doctrine of some organized religion.

As far as i am aware, the Council of Nicaea was not used to determine the canon of the bible. Rather, it was used to determine multiple things, including the nature of Jesus Christ, which did actually lead to some problems. Before that council there were many different sects which held a variety of opinions on Jesus Christ and Christianity...afterwards, a certain perspective was propped up by Constantine and Rome... That perspective became what we currently know as the Catholic Church. Other contemporary Christian ideologies such as Arianism were declared heretical, and after some ideological battles between some perspectives, most eventually succumbed to what we know as Catholicism.

All this aside, the bible is most definitely not unerring. History shows this. Not only is archeological evidence unable to support some of the stories, a lot of early Christian sects had different opinions on the religion and the texts in the bible. From the Ebionites (who were also regarded as heretics, surprise surprise) to other groups, the variety of opinions should show that the bible is not clear and unerring. Rather, it should show that the bible contains (sometimes contradictory) information able to produce different sects with different beliefs.

If the bible was infallible and unerring, it wouldn't contain contradictions and produce opposing sects as a result. If it was infallible, there wouldn't be groups believing in trinitarian and nontrinitarian beliefs. If it was infallible, there wouldn't be groups believing in the law, and those opposed to it. These are aspects which arise from inconsistencies and contradictions in the biblical texts, and they should show that the bible is capable in being wrong, or making mistakes. It wouldn't be that bad if it was really the 'ultimate' and 'infallible' word of god.

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: stosh64


'THAT' which we call God, Higher Self, Spirit, Consciousness, Life Force, or Energy is very real. Spirituality is being aware of 'THAT'. Mysticism is experiencing 'THAT'. Religion is vain enslavement to the ideas about 'THAT'.

Nicely said.

Most people are meme machines, and religion only proves that fact.

The Bible contains Spirituality, Mysticism, and Religion. It's depth of wisdom or cultivation of suffering is dependent upon the heart and mind of the individual.

The same can be said for most churches.

M Scott Peck called this the "Levels of Spiritual Awareness"
which might also be called the "Stages of Understanding"
1) Chaos, 2) Structure, 3) Skepticism, and 4) Mysticism

I like to think of this as stages in a circle
and we all go round and round. Each time
the dependency on structure (to get out of
the chaos) become less and less, and the
fear of skepticism become less and less
until we abide in Mysticism more and more.

>> Jesus says that in order for your sins to be forgiven,
>> you must forgive others sins against you.

> Did He say "in order to"? (as a prerequisite) Or did He say that if you are
> unforgiving the Father in heaven wouldn't forgive that person of their sins?


Good question.

I think Jesus is giving sage advice as Buddha would have done.

It is therefore a mistake to turn such wisdom in to a religious dogma,
or make it a rule that God himself must follow without exception.
It is both illogical, and outright silly.

Faith matters, however, belief matters very little.

The memes we cling to are not faith, in fact they are obstacles to genuine faith. Beliefs are those things we are programmed with. For example, when a traffic light turns red we are programmed to stop. That red light is a symbol of false authority. We are programmed with fear to submit to our social conditioning. And without thinking, we conform and obey. Ironically, those who overcome their programming and disregard false authority are the individuals who exercise real faith (this can be both good and bad).

Faith is not belief. We use these two terms interchangeablely, but when you think about it one has more to do with external programming, or what we where are told to believe, and the other has more to do with what we know is true by our own experience. In short, belief comes form an external source where as faith comes from an internal source. Faith then is what we do, and not merely what we believe. One compels our action out of duty, obligation, and the need to conform to other peoples expectations; the other compels us in the other direction.

Eternal life starts now. We can choose eternal life by choosing to life by faith. When we submit to false authority out of fear, then we are not living my faith. Jesus came so that we would have life and have it more abundantly. This means seeing the red light for what it is, and after we look both ways we are free to proceed. That is what faith is all about. It means trusting the Holy Spirit to guide us as we choose life. It means breaking the rules that are imposed on us from outside and living by faith in communion with the Living God.

Truth is a person, and that person is Jesus. When we look to the Bible for salvation we make the same mistake those who rejected the Messiah made. When we intellectualize our faith, it stops being faith. The Way to life is not found in knowing or believing the right things, nor is it attained by our good works, good deeds or good intentions. Life in Christ is all about our relationships, first with the Living God and then with each other.

a reply to: stosh64

I believe the bible and all the other texts teach the same divine message. I also believe that all the texts have remained in the hands of those who were enspired by divine zeal to maintain the integrity of the divine texts. I also consider that millions of people claiming to follow a prophet might actually be proclaiming a message from God. For man this may seem impossible but for God this would be easy.

I believe that we have lost at least part of the meaning in the sacred texts which is why they have not been reconciled yet. I believe the meaning were lost because greed and sinful passions turned God's Love into a license for the wealthy to sin and still be loved by God through Ritual Salvation.

Hebrews explains the details about WHY Abraham would sacrifice his son. Before God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac he had promised that his heirs to the priesthood would come through Isaac. If God had already promised Abraham heirs through Isaac, who's birth was a miracle in itself, then Abraham also believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead so that he could bear heirs.

It was about trusting that sacrificing Isaac could not negate the promise that heirs would come through Isaac. God did figuratively raise Isaac from the dead when he stopped Abraham and gave him the Ram to sacrifice instead. This entire story is a foreshadowing of the Christ who would be sacrificed and raised from the dead.

The part about discerning. Listen to those who teach at church, do they teach that the Light inside is Perfect and you have freewill to follow it?

If they teach anything other than freewill as your choice in adulthood, which is 13 by Jewish custom, to always follow the perfect Light down the narrow path of Perfection, then they are teaching of a different Christ than the Perfect Christ that I heard about in the scriptures. The Christ I know is perfect and told us we must obey the commandments and be Like him. He never said it was ok for us to go on sinning, in his own words he told others to "Sin No More".

Those who teach that you are fallen and cannot overcome until physical death, prove that God does not speak to them, because God does not speak to sinners.

The only one who can truly teach you is the one who knows you, the one within you. Christ was tempted in every way you are, by Satan not by the Father, who does not Tempt nor can be tempted. I am only a voice that is trying to convince the world that perfection lives in them, and they have the freewill to follow perfection.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Rex282
Wow.....
I just read your post 3 times and am blown away.

I cant even comment yet other than to say thank you for taking the time to reply to me.

Can I ask how you came upon your awareness?

It is common reason that unfortunately is not very common.That’s the point I was making.I didn’t do anything.I quit searching to find the truth because I was only going to(and did) find what “I” was looking for.The creator God is not playing a game of cat and mouse.There is no “confusion” of belief in the creator God’s communion.There is only know.

The beauty is “ know” cannot be communicated to anyone else and is devoid of religious belief.That’s why Yahoshua was not trying to convey a method or message on how to live(even though the majority of people believe he was).He clearly stated I speak only in parables so those that think they can see and hear will be blind and deaf.The most known and misquoted scripture is when Yahoshua was talking to some Jews that “believed” in him.He said.

“IF” you continued in my words[heard the truth] you will “truly” be my disciple THEN you will KNOW the truth THEN the truth will make you free.”

Yahoshua was making a very profound statement.Notice he didn’t say ..”believe the truth”.As a matter of fact Yahoshua never says he believes or has faith he only says he knows because truth can only be known.Many see their Jesus as a mellow guy preaching peace, love and flowers out of one side of his mouth and then condemning people to the eternal punishment of hell out the other if they don’t believe in him because of some religious doctrine "they" believe.That’s what religion does to the mind.It captures thoughts and bends them to it’s religion.That is what Yahoshua meant when he said...

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those that are broken, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book...


He didn't finish the Isiah 61 quote because he was not the vengeful conquering Jewish messiah he was “The christ”…the anointed one, the son/seed of the creator God.His name (nature and character) is Yahoshua which means Yahweh( the creator God) IS deliverance/salvation.That deliverance is from Hades which means the realm of death and imperception.

The doctrines of man religion(mostly Christianity) twisted Hades into the belief of the eternal punishment of Hell.Yahoshua never preached(proclaimed through statement) that doctrine.He said he would deliver all of mankind (and creation) from Hades.The realm of imperception is the religious carnal mind of man..satan..the adversary.The realm of death is…death..

When you are delivered from death you will know because you won’t be dead anymore.The prerequisite for that is dieing then being dead(everyone will qualify).When you are delivered from imperception you will know the creator God and you will be out of your religious carnal mind.Both will be caused 100% by the creator God and 0% by you.That is the Good News Yahoshua and then the disciples proclaimed.

a reply to: Rex282

Amen!

originally posted by: daaskapital

If the bible was infallible and unerring, it wouldn't contain contradictions and produce opposing sects as a result. If it was infallible, there wouldn't be groups believing in trinitarian and nontrinitarian beliefs. If it was infallible, there wouldn't be groups believing in the law, and those opposed to it. These are aspects which arise from inconsistencies and contradictions in the biblical texts, and they should show that the bible is capable in being wrong, or making mistakes. It wouldn't be that bad if it was really the 'ultimate' and 'infallible' word of god.

But you cannot logically show someone that there are contradictions in the bible if they do not want to see it and will not answer you back if you make an argument that they cannot contradict. They use faith to say there is no contradictions between for instance Paul:s (Paul+John) message and Jesus message by Matthew, Luke, Peter.

It wouldn't be that bad if it was really the 'ultimate' and 'infallible' word of god

You mean like god telling you how god defines itself to the highest level of you can understanding instead of how humans define god?

a reply to: stosh64

The Bible - written by men with an adgenda, over 2000 years ago.

I'm not sure on this, although I do consider myself to be a follower and believer of Christ and his teachings. But they say the best way to spread misinformation is to include some truth in it. So with that said, I do believe the bible contains some important information. Since I wasn't there, the best I can do is to use my own best judgement, which can be a very precarious situation, trusting your own judgement... your own, flawed, human perception. But its all we have, and with experience you can hone your own mind into a trustworthy tool, but keep in mind it is not impervious to deception.

In a way, we cannot really be held to fault, if we are geniunely trying. Because we do not have all the necessary informstion or the tools to make a proper determination. But I do stand by the teachings of Jesus about love and kindness and forgiveness and faith in God. It rings true for me.

Pretty much everyone in the world, across all boundaries agree on the basic values: Compassion, Honesty, Integrity, Tolerance, Hard Work, Faith/Devotion, Respect, etc. Live by those.

Read everything. All versions of the Bible. Tao Te Ching, Nietzche, J.D. Salinger, Hermann Hesse.... take grains from each that ring true to you and construct your own 'religion'.

Express your beliefs in ways that feel good to you, not because you're scared of Hell or afraid of disappointing others. I personally don't like going to church. Instead I do art and spend time in nature. If you like church, go to church. If you don't, find something that feels right.

"God is Truth." -Mahatma Gandhi

The Ancient Egyptians believed humans had 360 senses, not just 5. Maybe we have the ability to sense truth? Relax and see what 'feels' right.