The Loss of Femininity in The USA

a reply to: Realtruth

I have had a similar discussion with my older sister.She was born in 1954 and I in '59. We grew up with a mother that stayed home and raised us kids and did all the womenly things she was expected to do when we were young. But like I told my sister,I wish that I too could have been a stay at home mom.The problem was that our society changed radically in the late '70's to early '80s to where a women was no longer expected to stay home. If you wanted to have any kind of decent life for you and your children you were forced to go out of the house and work full time with your husband.

Though some posters have hit the nail on the head about leaving your kids in day cares and with strangers,there is also the fact,that when women first started hitting the job markets they weren't met with open arms. They got laid off first(because so and so is a working dad and needs his income more)and were harassed in what had traditionally been male work places. Men were not happy to move over and share their office space or working environment with women. These men had been used to talking and saying whatever they wanted about women that they couldn't say at home,and now they were taking it out on women in the work place. Not all men did this,but trust me when I say that there was enough that did, to really sour the relationship between men and women. I personally even after Ford had settled an $8 million lawsuit for sexual harassment on women,been asked by coworkers "did I know that my boobs jiggled when I walked"? REALLY??? I looked at the guy and told him that the next time he said ANYTHING like that to me,he would lose his job and could go home and explain to his wife what he said that got him fired. He never talked to me again.

Things like that do harden you. When you know you have to go work with people that have no morals about saying the most outrageous things and have gotten away with it for eons,and now they are saying them to women faces.Luckily I always gave ONE warning. After that it was game on and if you lost your job because you were stupid,oh well.

I feel that most of todays ills can be blamed on the fact that there is no mother at home raising her kids 24/7 anymore. I think most parents can recall a situation where they were talking to their kids and suddenly something cropped up that may not have seemed important at the time to them....later they realized that is was a serious learning experience for their kids. Now think about how many times that you were at work and missed those? The lessons that could have been taught to your kids that would have better prepared them for life? Mothers teach their kids many things,kids NEED both parents,but mothers are especially important during the preschool years. They teach their boys how to relate to females,they teach their girls how to be women and relate to society as a whole.They teach their kids how to count,and play with clay and color in the lines.They teach them the basics of all the things they need to know to be prepared to start school. I had my sons teachers tell me that few of the kids knew their primary colors or how to count anymore when starting school.They lamented the fact that the kids didn't even possess the needed social skills to get along with others. They had mothers that were too busy out working to teach them those things.


The mother comes home,is trying to throw dinner together or god forbid,throwing nasty fast food at them. Then its clean up the house somewhat,get the kids cleaned up and ready for bed. Help with any homework.See what your husband is complaining about,and get yourself ready for bed and have your stuff set up for a quick throw together for getting to work the next day. So where is the time to listen to your kids? Or your husband for that fact? Divorce high? You bet,women feel unappreciated with a lot of men (not all) sitting back and watching TV while they run around like the mad hatter trying to get everything ready for the next day. Then when its all said and done they want sex,and your so tired you can't help but look at them and think, "ARE YOU CRAZY"???

Been there and done that,and it takes a toll on your marriage. I think a lot of times its not so much that they don't love their husbands anymore as it is that the grass is greener where they think they are escaping the life they have in the marriage with all the stress. It isn't until later when the dust settles and everyone's life has been disrupted that they realize the real issue. Then its too late,the damage has been done. If you had asked me about acting feminine back in the day while I was going through this, I would have beat you over the head and screamed at you about,yeah you darn right I don't feel feminine right now!!!! I felt like I had the world on my shoulders. I was getting an Atlas complex from it and all I could think of was escaping. Now that I'm done with all that I can finally take a breath and relax,but back then? Forget it, I forgot how to breathe at all. I was stressed and ended up on meds for anxiety disorder, I kid you not.

I love my boys and wouldn't change a thing.But I would never want to go back there and do it again either. I lost who I was as a PERSON,much less what sex I was.If a women has to go out and work like a man and make money like a man and keep a stiff upper lip like a man and take all life throws at her like a man and and and... well you just made a man with boobs is all. What else can you expect?

This thread does address a real problem. Overshooting rationality in correcting a problem. I am old enough to have seen the movement started and wondered why the women took it so far.

Right now, no one is structuring the family. Some say that the government wants it this way so they can condition the kids better. But some of the health problems are coming from genetic specific food intolerances. These intolerances have been taken care of by people paying attention to their parents when preparing foods. Each kid inherits DNA from each parent and needs to find a balance and a slight diversity in their diet, but they need to eat a diverse diet to find the right combination to stay sociable and have their brain and immune system work properly. So what have we done? We have completely altered the diet and some of the "good foods" as stated by the nutrition guidelines are harmful to some people. We changed the recipes and ignored the ways of our parents. Sometimes this is good, but many times it causes disruptive kids to good parents and kids that have varying metabolic issues.

We have a mess because women started to desire to get better jobs and now both people need to work instead of just the man. The kids suffer and so does society. Health care costs are going through the roof. The ten percent of the people this helped causes issues in a different ten percent. The use of feel good chemistry in food has also increased because people feel more entitled because they work so treat themselves to food loaded with this chemistry. Overconsumption of this chemistry is bad. It can cause all sorts of problems and a loss of proper perception. So the women can't see what is happening in the family.

a reply to: Dimithae

Very well written. I agree.

I have always embraced my femininity. I wear dresses more than I wear pants. I am not the t-shirt and jeans type. I love jewelry and a bit of make up. I don't dress to please anyone. I wear what pleases me and makes me comfortable. I am vulnerable but can be bold. I am comfortable in social setting with women and men. I enjoy when a man holds a door open for me. Hell, I enjoy when anyone holds a door open for me. LOL

originally posted by: Dimithae

I love my boys and wouldn't change a thing.But I would never want to go back there and do it again either. I lost who I was as a PERSON,much less what sex I was.If a women has to go out and work like a man and make money like a man and keep a stiff upper lip like a man and take all life throws at her like a man and and and... well you just made a man with boobs is all. What else can you expect?

Thanks for the input and the time you spent typing that all out.

I think it's not just a loss of femininity, but rather a cut-throat work environment that is not healthy for any gender.

I believe that we would see a softer side to everyone if people didn't have to work like slaves, and try to survive. Our worldly organizational skills, priorities and ideals are completely screwed up.

Everyone suffers because of this, but the real tragedy is the children raising themselves and not have either the mother or father present to care for them.

What even is "acting like a man" or "acting like a woman"? Are you so brainwashed by society that boys have to play with blue toy trucks and tools, and girl need to play with pink kitchen sets and baby dolls?? Obviously, a strong independent woman who doesn't need to rely on a man is clearly intimidating for a lot of small minded people. It's ignorance like this (and c'mon guys, we're on ATS...we're supposed to deny ignorance here, not spread it) that just reminds me that feminism is still vital even today. Embarrassing really, you'd think we'd have worked it out by now. Clearly not.

originally posted by: Night Star
I have always embraced my femininity. I wear dresses more than I wear pants. I am not the t-shirt and jeans type. I love jewelry and a bit of make up. I don't dress to please anyone. I wear what pleases me and makes me comfortable. I am vulnerable but can be bold. I am comfortable in social setting with women and men. I enjoy when a man holds a door open for me. Hell, I enjoy when anyone holds a door open for me. LOL

So when should I pick you up for dinner?

You can still be feminine and stand up for yourself if some guy gets out of line with you.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: Night Star
I have always embraced my femininity. I wear dresses more than I wear pants. I am not the t-shirt and jeans type. I love jewelry and a bit of make up. I don't dress to please anyone. I wear what pleases me and makes me comfortable. I am vulnerable but can be bold. I am comfortable in social setting with women and men. I enjoy when a man holds a door open for me. Hell, I enjoy when anyone holds a door open for me. LOL

So when should I pick you up for dinner?

Anytime.

a reply to: Realtruth

Basically from 1z observation this is part of the evolution adaptation process and the women are evolving more to adapt to this world as are some men.

Those men who are not and are afraid or even offended that the ladies are getting stronger need to accept the ladies are getting mentally, financially and even physically stronger and need to MAN UP to the process, nothing more...

As a male, 1 sees nothing wrong with the ladies getting stronger it just means the genetics will be more powerful as these types of women connect with men adapting and growing stronger as well. Which equals a stronger humanity eventually.

I just blame the lawyers for it, and the Nazi child support state. I still open doors, for anyone, but when I get a scowl or if comment, I still say your are welcome. Throws them in a tizzym

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

Another well thought out response.

I think you are correct here that both parties need to adjust, but there is also that other factor and that is the pressing one.

People need time to decompress be they man or woman, and unfortunately our society is so driven by materialistic ideals that we trade most of our precious time for money.

I hold women in high regards. I was raised by a strong woman who never gave up her feminine side, but yet ran a household and a business.

She was able to set a schedule and stick by it.

I also understand some women prefer not to have a family and that is fine as well, but allowing time for decompression is important.

If we trade most of our time for work, at the end of a lifetime what did we accomplish?

Wow lot of people playing jump to conclusion's in this thread blaming entire groups like they live inside their head..

A couple of the original feminist pioneers from the 70s have come out talking about how things have gone past equality.

No I don't have time or bandwidth to find it, this was late 90's early 2000.

Personally i had to give up a great job with outstanding job security for my wife's career. So please don't tell me I hate women.

To the comment about men having unreasonable expectations of women, I agree... But at the same time women are no different with their unreasonable expectations of men.

The pendulum is never going to be equal, it will always swing to far because it's human nature to try for more.but equality should be the goal.

Right now we have a crisis for boys in America that many refuse to acknowledge and until people do the drop out rate for boys will continue to boom as well as the suicide rate.

At this stage of the game who holds blame is about the only equal thing in this argument.

a reply to: Realtruth

1 agrees there should be a time(s) for there to be peace to find enjoyment in a companion.

But without knowing the exact reason for HUMANS creation its not easy to call what we should all be doing...

Some Creatures work their entire lives only to ensure the stability of something else like livestock? for example their job is to grow, eat, gain weight & reproduce only to be slaughtered for food as of now. So how can we really say that humans are designed and required to need decompression time outside of reproducing again w/o knowing why humanity was CREATED. Have to await the Designer/Teachers to arrive and let the secret be known.

So many dynamics at play its not easy to center in why some CREATOR Creations including HUMANS were Created...

Was it for:
Genetic stockpile in-case some ran out of genetic material, due to their primary genetics being threatened from a enemy or disease?

Soul Growth and so experience life to better know where your soul attracts to?

Military reinforcement personnel for a undeclared species related / associated to mankind?

Livestock in form of flesh and or SOUL material for metaphysical and physical beings higher up the food chain then humans are considering?

Or to keep generating reality from the human mind for some to access in the future or in a NOW existent dimension for present cosmic planetary data that humans are gathering? Like bio machines? And so designed to project reality like a machine would project holograms?

1 is not sure Realtruth...

I still see a lot of feminine traits and qualities out there. I see dozens and sometimes hundreds of very beautiful, compasionate caring females with long hair and make up and dresses and skirts on all the time. There is no lack of females with classic female qualities! At least not in Oregon, Washington, Utah, Nevada or California.

I think this is a non issue, at least in the USA, where I live and travel frequently.

And the opening lines of the OP, that women make as much or more as men do now. My wife doesn't. The guys in her work department make a lot more than she does for the same job. That's why we need feminism, right there. Just saying.

The loss of femininity

How about men?

Our forefathers wore powdered wigs, stockings, and makeup

a reply to: Realtruth

Here's a question can a woman still retain feminine qualities be in a work environment and maintain a family life?

Of course they can and, yes, they do.

24/7 and for decades.

When women project femininity at work we are deemed stupid or slutty...by both men and other women.

Just the facts.

Anyways, I tend to think there is also a biological or evolutionary component to the OP's query.

Our hormomes are impacted by chemicals in so much of what we wear, use and consume - hormone disruptors. Add to that the stress which modern life creates and you get cortisol which is also a hormone that happens to control aggression. This impacts men too. So are we less feminine or are men less masculine? Could be both...like maybe we are all simply becoming more homogenized, for lack of a better term.

And, finally, the sheer amount of information we are subjected to every day...internet, social media, television, marketing...is bound to have an impact. The brain is a meaty computer, all of that info is bound to impact behavior as input equals output. Women are typically maximizers - experts at getting the best outcome from the worst situations, making due or sizing up a situation and surviving it. Maybe the changing/shifting gender roles is benefiting humanity in ways we can't perceive yet?

originally posted by: kosmicjack
When women project femininity at work we are deemed stupid or slutty...by both men and other women.

Just the facts.

Good point. I think the ideals need to change. The working world is cold, harsh, and lack feminine qualities and energy.

Maybe this needs to change in order for the entire world to change.

Kosmic I have no problem with women working in the world, but instead of the environment stripping them of their essence let that essence permeate the work world.

Male and female energies and qualities can be present in both male and female, but balance is key. The world imo has an abundance of male energy, and that goes for the females that embrace this energy also.

Thanks for bringing this up.

Nothing is disappearing IMO... you just hear and are aware more of what you find "weird" and don't relate to (apparently) - because of the INTERNET. There are manly men everywhere, there are girly females everywhere, there are girly men and manly females everywhere - nothing is changing except your perception of the world because more of it is becoming known to us as a species and it is harder to IGNORE humanity because we cannot HIDE it or cover our eyes and ears to it anymore.

IMO No conspiracy - just a lot of "WTF"s in a changing world because of the digital age and 24/7/365 information and emotion. Humans are very good at xenophobia - so they just create "us" versus "them" or "this" versus "that" situations out of absolutely EVERYTHING because they can't handle that humans have much more depth that what we are willing to admit rather than "this ONE way" or "that ONE way" and no inbetweens or unconventional combinations.

It was just as weird with human behavior 1000 years ago (as far as human sexuality is concerned) as it is today IMO. It's just harder to ignore it or be ignorant to it all now.

I swear.. it's like humans are afraid of the idea of complexity so they just think it's the New World Order.