Ohio teen refuses to do homework until school brings back Ten Commandments plaque

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

But I have a problem with people knocking this kid for standing up when most of us would never put anything on the line for our principles.

I don't think they are knocking this kid for standing up for principles... they are knocking him for his way to go about it like not doing homework and destroying his future over nothing. Not doing homework and not caring for his future doesn't affect anything, only himself.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Not doing homework and not caring for his future doesn't affect anything, only himself.

and the peoples whos tax dollars go to fund all the programs he will be on getting # on the arm cause he has no education and cant get a decent job.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

And to be on subject, this kid's actions (among many other fundamentalists and extremists) drives us, exactly there , to the past.

I'm sorry, but where did you find this kid is a fundamentalist or extremist, or something alluding to his actions being such? Or do you just feel anyone who has a belief system different than yours automatically falls into these categories?

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Dr1Akula
And the atheists condemning him and knocking him down are what? Securing freedom for all? Puhlease, your entire argument is the kid's a Christian. As if we couldn't tell from your avatar mate.

My argument is that religious symbols don't have (or deserve) a place in public schools.
I have a justifiabe dislike (not bigotry) for the christian religion (for the reasons I discribed in a previous post).
I have every right to do so,(it's my opinion), and it's obvious I don't try to hide it.
I have no problem with christians themselves as long as they keep their belief to themselves.

ps. Does my avatar make you ignore my arguments?

So if they don't think it exists, why are they crying so much?

None's crying, god doesn't exist, but the religion does exist and is still creating problems in society.

Nice try, you guys prove yourselves to be anti-Christian and try to hide behind essays. You're not fooling anybody.

How's that making our arguments less valid. I don't ''attack'' christians for their beliefs, but for their actions provoked by their beliefs.

As a Christian I accept other beliefs. Quite the opposite of those who want to destroy our religion for past injustices, equality or blind hatred. But you wouldn't know anything about that right?

You assume that we don't accept other beliefs. that's simply not true.
Everyone is free to be religious and believe what they want, Just because I have an opinion on their belief doesn't mean I don't respect their right to believe that.
It's when someone tries to push their religion on others (just like the little kid did), I take offense...
And pushing your religions on others is the first step to extremism and what lead to fundamentalism, terrorism etc.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

We should put God back into our schools. Kids will be encouraged to kill for Christianity than over some doucher picking on them.

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: Cheddarhead
If that young man feels that strongly about having a religious symbol in a publicly funded school, then maybe he and his parents should discuss attending a private Christian school instead. Let him refuse to do his homework and participate at school all he wants, he's only hurting himself and his grades.

This. That's what I don't get. He and his parents, if religion is so important, they have the option of religious school. No need to jeopardize his future, unless he's ok with a life flipping burgers. There is also homeschooling. But, if he feels it's worth destroying this to make a statement, it's his choice. I hope the state does not interfere in this.

You do know this could go both ways? If atheism or anti-theism is so important to the parents of such a child, maybe they should consider home schooling where they can strictly control what their child is subjected to. Why should the absence of belief in any god by a very small minority, affect everyone else at the school?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

I don't think they are knocking this kid for standing up for principles... they are knocking him for his way to go about it like not doing homework and destroying his future over nothing. Not doing homework and not caring for his future doesn't affect anything, only himself.

Uh yeah. My first thought was/is ---- are his parents supporting this? You don't use your kids.

Teens tend to be impressionable and idealistic. They need adults, especially their parents to help them make wise decisions. Not doing your homework, dropping out, is not the right decision for any reason.

And I am raising a 14 year old. Actually, this is "kinda" third generation, third time around.

a reply to: retiredTxn

You do know this could go both ways? If atheism or anti-theism is so important to the parents of such a child, maybe they should consider home schooling where they can strictly control what their child is subjected to. Why should the absence of belief in any god by a very small minority, affect everyone else at the school?

I don't see anyone pushing atheism in public schools... unless I'm missing something?

If they do, atheists will be screaming against it of course.

originally posted by: retiredTxn
Why should the absence of belief in any god by a very small minority, affect everyone else at the school?

1. America is a secular government.

2. America is not a democracy of majority rule.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

I don't have a dog in this fight to be honest.

This wall is paid by taxes and not by the church.

But I'm sure a lot of those tax dollars come from Christians...


Which, although a little off topic, brings up the question should Christians be exempt from putting money into projects that are non-Christian endeavours...



I bet that would make for an interesting Lawsuit in the States.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

But I'm sure a lot of those tax dollars come from Christians...
should Christians be exempt from putting money into projects that are non-Christian endeavours?

Only if they don't want to be part of the state anymore and create their own theocracy instead, where everything will be about the christian religion, and pastors will teach to their schools.

See that's irrelevant
We are all part of the state, and our taxes go to the public interest.
but we are not all part of the church or a single religion. and we can't be forced to be.

A public school is about education, just as a public road is about transportation, Should we put crosses and christian statues and symbols on our roads just because most of the tax payers are christians?

Another ex.
I am sure a lot of those tax payers are fans of Elvis too,
Should we also put a poster of Elvis in that wall?
What does Elvis has to do with education?
You get my point?

If this kids parents were half as competent as they should be as adults, they would use this moment to teach their kid about making better choices. Refusing to do work and shut down over a protest isn't productive and isn't a good thing to teach. Protests don't accomplish anything. Actually putting a coherent argument together and making it something better than "I want a display of my values for everyone to look at" is how he can reverse the decision.

But, being rational isn't the solution anyone is looking for.

If he wants religion in school, shouldn't he go to a religious school? I mean, there are catholic schools every where.

Maybe he and his parents will cry "christian persecuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuution!"

originally posted by: Hushabye
If he wants religion in school, shouldn't he go to a religious school? I mean, there are catholic schools every where.

Maybe he and his parents will cry "christian persecuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuution!"

Not necessarily. I don't see the need for militant atheism. I see a religious display as nothing more than a cultural artifact. The fact is, the US has a lot of Christians and their culture is a big part about what happens in our nation. With Christmas coming up this is pretty timely.

The kid shouldn't really be focusing on the message of the display because the message isn't what's important, it's also what's controversial. For every student he finds that takes that message to heart (and I suspect in this case it's only due to his parents brainwashing), you're going to find another student that takes these messages to heart
1. To abstain from taking the lives of living beings.
2. To abstain from taking that which is not given.
3. To abstain from sexual misconduct.
4. To abstain from telling falsehoods.
5. To abstain from distilled and fermented intoxicants, which are the occasion for carelessness

These are quite different but I would argue no less valuable. A ban on killing anything living from a human to a gnat. A ban on not just stealing but on obtaining anything that was meant for another such as credit for a task. A ban on being promiscuous. A ban against telling lies and keeping to your word. The last is a ban on activities that result in you not being sober.

This is just as good a message as the 10 commandments, better in my opinion since it doesn't also enforce worship of an arrogant egotistical being who expressly sets you up for failure in life. Both in my opinion have a place but in neither should it be about the message but rather in educating about the culture.

We are not a Christian nation but we are a nation with a lot of Christians, and actually learning about their various sects, cultures, and beliefs is a good idea in my opinion.

Ma reply to: olaru12

mr miller is a religious tyrant :

Miller insisted that the Ten Commandments are not just a religious symbol, but guidelines it would behoove all students to follow

he thinks it is the DUTY of all students to follow all 10 commandments ?

that is tyrany at its finest - just read # 1 ~ 4

you will obey

next up - mr miller is not as many opine " throwing away his future " - he is cementing it

in the fall out of this debarcle - there will be job offers awash for the diploma less mr miller from all manner of religious insitutionions who dont care that he is an uneducated moron - they will give him a good job anyway - because he wants the 10 commandments enforeced on everyone

a reply to: retiredTxn

Well then it looks like the kid would have done better by using proper channels to get what he wanted. My stance has always been that he is destroying his future over a piece of art that is insignificant in his life. I've said this from the beginning.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your entire point is it's stupid because it's the 10 Commandments. You can deny it all you want but that's where your hatred for this kid comes from. You're just getting bent out of shape because you've failed to hide it behind your arguments.

Don't sit here and try to cover up your prejudice and bigotry with excuses.

Sure. Whatever you say. If that is what you want to believe then fine. Address my points now that we've cleared that up.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well I give him props for the petition, the other things are useless.

But all within his rights. "They" aren't defacing school property, disrupting any activity. Akin to a hunger strike, his "homework strike" is ingenious. It calls attention to his cause without actually harming anyone but himself (like you keep pointing out). His actions aren't designed to hurt anyone or the school, the petition and posture are well within the constitution, in fact it shows he has a good understanding of it.

That's why I called him an idiot. He is ruining his future over something stupid and insignificant when he could get what he wanted rather easily through proper channels as the post above yours demonstrates. I do commend him for getting a petition together. At least that is SOMETHING.

Like a hunger strike, the "authority" has to address it without "punishing" him, because he isn't breaking the law.

More like they are caving. My school would have just let me fail, but I went to a magnet public school that demanded results.

Here is the problem in a nut shell.

The school can not have said item on campus, as it does violate the idea of the separation of church and state. At the same time it is something that has been on campus for over 50 years and the question of if it should be removed is a valid one.

The problem with this is that the student is one person, while as noble as his intentions are, ultimately without the support of his peers to join him, then ultimately he will fail in his choices and course of action and will reap the consequences of said actions. Ultimately the school is not going to compromise, and if it is one person, then there is no reason to. If he got the student body, a majority of them, and their parents involved, then it would be a different story.