Doubts regarding abductions

a reply to: intrptr

I've looked at both sides. They were suckered (bribed) by media outlets in the beginning that promised them impartial reporting, then proceeded to baste them in the public eye. So now the record reflects that hoax. Thats why initially they came forward then recoiled.

I would have done the same thing. The media wants to discredit and poke fun at UFO's or promote it to make money. They found that out.

So you're saying they were bribed at the beginning thinking their story would be truthfully told, only to be mocked by the public because of the way the media told the story and the way that they were portrayed, is that correct? Has Travis Walton had the platform to set the record straight in any of these 39 years? To tell his story exactly as it happened? Say through books, lectures, magazines, tv/radio interviews? Has he given us anymore than what he told people 39 years ago? If he has, tell me what it is.

You have a poor argument basing part of the lack of believability and acceptance of the case on the medias mocking of Travis and his friends. If he had something of value, nothing would have kept him from providing that to the public. But all he had was a story.

I believe the only suckering going on are to the people that naively believe this story with no evidence whatsoever to back up any of his claims. He has taken full advantage of people like this. And rightly so in my opinion.

ETA: A Bunch young, dumb, ignorant, logger hicks found that out.

You do understand a dumb, ignorant, hick could provide undeniable physical evidence of alien visitation, right? It doesn't matter who you are, what you do, where you live, or your education- Anyone could give that one piece of evidence that would give us proof that we aren't the only intelligent life form in the universe.

a reply to: intrptr

Did you just explain how traveling the cosmos is accomplished?

I wouldn't dare.

The idea of non-locality invites speculation that the distance between worlds could be redundant.

originally posted by: Emma3
I would like to hear your opinions on the following (you can answer just 1 or 2, if you want to):

1 - If someone has a dream about being put back home from a (triangular) spaceship, do you think that means something or was it just a random dream?

Depends on a lot of things. Mainly, if there is outside physical evidence that corroborates the dream, it is worth investigation.

2 - How often do abductees remember their abductions and how much of it do they remember?

Again, it depends. Some remember fully, some remember only pieces, some remember nothing at all.

3 - Do the memories feel like real memories or more like a dream type of thing?

AGAIN, it depends on the abductee. But in many cases, the memories seem very real, sometimes with a dream-like quality.

In the more solid abduction cases, there is the presence of outside evidence beyond what the abductee remembers that makes that case worthy of investigation (like scoop marks, implants and other things).

Thank you in advance

a reply to: Kandinsky

The idea of non-locality invites speculation that the distance between worlds could be redundant.

Beautifully spoken. Have you done a thread on this?

Would you be so kind be so kind to ping me if you do?

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

So you're saying they were bribed at the beginning thinking their story would be truthfully told, only to be mocked by the public because of the way the media told the story and the way that they were portrayed, is that correct? Has Travis Walton had the platform to set the record straight in any of these 39 years? To tell his story exactly as it happened? Say through books, lectures, magazines, tv/radio interviews? Has he given us anymore than what he told people 39 years ago? If he has, tell me what it is.

You must understand the climate for UFO's back then was ridicule and more ridicule. I know. I had an experience one night and I didn''t tell anyone either. You just didn't do it. We would have been labeled crazy. As it was the arguments our experience caused between us broke up some solid friendships. It was a different era back then in the 70's.

I totally get where (Waltons friend) is coming from.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Alas, claims mean nothing until they can be proved via testable evidence.


"At this point, there isn't an iota of testable evidence proving that aliens exist, that they pilot craft"

I disagree completely with this point, there is tons of testable data that shows aliens exist, much of it on this very site. Some people arent going to believe until they have clear pictures, but if you take in all the facts, its clear there are alien craft.

Tons of testable data? What data and exactly how has it been tested?

There was radar confirmation in several cases I mentioned along with multiple people seeing the same thing. I just watched a show going over the various USO cases and they all involve military tracking objects... The first case involved an object moving at 20k+ feet below traveling at 150 knots that was tracked for four days.
www.waterufo.net...

Virtually all USO cases involve radar confirmation if you want to check them out
www.waterufo.net...


However, if you didnt find the original links I posted convincing, I doubt these will do much for you either.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Alas, claims mean nothing until they can be proved via testable evidence.

Dunno if you have watched the clips, I kinda doubt it, but I didnt come away thinking they lied. Sometimes you arent going to have all the facts, you can still examine what is available and try to use some critical thinking skills to see if you see flaws. What if someone gave you a million dollars to bet one way or another on these cases? I imagine you would take a little more time to examine them carefully.

"At this point, there isn't an iota of testable evidence proving that aliens exist, that they pilot craft"

I disagree completely with this point, there is tons of testable data that shows aliens exist, much of it on this very site. Some people arent going to believe until they have clear pictures, but if you take in all the facts, its clear there are alien craft.

some of the best cases
Westall Australia
JAL 1628 flight
Tehran military incident
Belgium Wave
Trumbull OH police chase

"and that they abduct people."

I dont think the abduction stories are even close to the evidence of ufos in general, still intesting stuff, if you actually watch the accounts, I think you might even come away saying maybe...

"These stories are extremely similar to ancient stories about fairies abducting humans, doing things to them, and returning them. Only the technology in the stories has changed. Do you believe that fairies abduct people or would you require testable evidence proving it before you would accept it as fact?"

Afraid I am not familiar with these stories, and like you, I dont give them a second thought. But the nice thing about the destination america story is it lets us meet the actual witness. You gauge the person's intelligence, their demeanor, and their honesty. I wouldnt bet a whole bunch of money it really happened to them, but I do lean that way.

I think something strange probably did happen to those people, including the ones from long ago who claimed they were abducted by fairies. I don't think most of them are lying. I still doubt that they were literally abducted by extraterrestrials in spaceships. If we ever reach the point where we have testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist and have been here, I'll make the leap of faith that they're abducting people. We're still a long way away from having that proof.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

So you're saying they were bribed at the beginning thinking their story would be truthfully told, only to be mocked by the public because of the way the media told the story and the way that they were portrayed, is that correct? Has Travis Walton had the platform to set the record straight in any of these 39 years? To tell his story exactly as it happened? Say through books, lectures, magazines, tv/radio interviews? Has he given us anymore than what he told people 39 years ago? If he has, tell me what it is.

You must understand the climate for UFO's back then was ridicule and more ridicule. I know. I had an experience one night and I didn''t tell anyone either. You just didn't do it. We would have been labeled crazy. As it was the arguments our experience caused between us broke up some solid friendships. It was a different era back then in the 70's.

I totally get where (Waltons friend) is coming from.

It would be interesting to hear what the arguments were between you and your friends regarding the experience. Did you share the experience yet reach different conclusions about what had actually happened?

originally posted by: 111DPKING111

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Alas, claims mean nothing until they can be proved via testable evidence.


"At this point, there isn't an iota of testable evidence proving that aliens exist, that they pilot craft"

I disagree completely with this point, there is tons of testable data that shows aliens exist, much of it on this very site. Some people arent going to believe until they have clear pictures, but if you take in all the facts, its clear there are alien craft.

Tons of testable data? What data and exactly how has it been tested?

There was radar confirmation in several cases I mentioned along with multiple people seeing the same thing. I just watched a show going over the various USO cases and they all involve military tracking objects... The first case involved an object moving at 20k+ feet below traveling at 150 knots that was tracked for four days.
www.waterufo.net...

Virtually all USO cases involve radar confirmation if you want to check them out
www.waterufo.net...


However, if you didnt find the original links I posted convincing, I doubt these will do much for you either.

Radar tracking of something in the sky proves that there was something in the sky. I don't doubt that. But it doesn't prove that they were extraterrestrial craft that subsequently abducted humans. It's one thing to hear a noise and another to jump to the conclusion that it's a pteradactyl that's landed on the roof.

originally posted by: CollisioN

I have had many times dreams that represent a place or me doing something that I had no idea I would visit or do that. It also has nothing to do with planning to go somewhere and dreaming it because you planned it. It has come as completely uncalled and without knowing the place at all. Dreams may not be always 'figments of imagination', there can be a lot more to that... if used properly.

Just a recent one - appeared yesterday, I was going to another person's house, one house that I\ve never seen or known what it looks inside, and btw such things happen rarely, like once in several months but I like it. Anyway, I was in a room with red walls, I was at the table with a few other people. Then it hit me while I was there .. - I got a recall feeling that I've seen that situation before, the red walls, the same person that was staying near me.. I think this was an episodic moment of a dream and I am sure it was from a dream cause I do have such random dreams, and the dream must have been too short to remember the same day of dreaming it or I would have continued the experiment of testing dreams that happen in advance. Sorry for offtopic

a reply to: Emma3

Hi Emma,

Here is my opinion on your questions:

1 - If someone has a dream about being put back home from a (triangular) spaceship, do you think that means something or was it just a random dream?
a: The dream itself can be just a projection of your unconscious mind: the triangle is a well-rooted archetypical symbol embedded in our human nature; HOWEVER, if you have sensorial memories attached to it, like hearing static or vibration of sort / smelling metallic substances / seeing the empty bed or your house from above...this could mean something different
2 - How often do abductees remember their abductions and how much of it do they remember?
a: very complicated to answer, for abductees may not always be granted the luxury of keeping the memory of their abduction. I don't think a credible statistics could ever be drawn on this
3 - Do the memories feel like real memories or more like a dream type of thing?
a: It can be both, but when clear sensorial recollection is attached to the visual memory, it is more likely that the "dream" was actually (physically) experienced.

Please keep in mind that what I said above goes for E.T AND TERRESTRIAL abductions alike, leaning more towards the latter as far as I am concerned.
I hope I was able to share my ideas with you.
Be strong.

a reply to: DJW001

Alien abduction stories are nearly always the result of "recovered memories."

I think this is perhaps because most people will never speak of what they do remember, they don't want the ridicule and in some cases they don't really want to think about it and bring the memories to the fore. They may say some little things that have happened to them, things that are provable like waking up with holes in their legs or something, but the things they can't show anyone they keep to themselves.