Doubts regarding abductions

a reply to: Kandinsky

fantastic avatar!!

back on topic:

Hi emma... I had to pop back into your thread because it appears as if I have been naughty which is not the case. Unfortunately I get really angry when I see new Members being insulted and belittled and well... I replied to a post from a Member who was insulting you and got myself into trouble. I am very happy to see a Moderator removed that post and it is great to see your thread has a meaningful discussion going on.



As for dreams, sometimes our dreams are a step towards remembering things. The search feature on ATS is the button on the tool bar with the magnifying glass. You will be surprised to see how much info there is on here... other Members sharing their experiences/memories. That may help you in your search for answers.

a reply to: Tangerine

But it was Travis, who failed the lie detector test, who claimed that he was abducted by aliens.

On that game show, moment of truth, the contestant is given questions on stage before a live audience while hooked to a lie detector being monitored off stage. He failed that question decades after the event.

Not what I would call a valid test result.

I am basing this on my memory that his friends never claimed to have seen any "aliens".

They reportedly fled the scene right when Travis got "zapped" so I think thats correct.

Certain elements to the weirdness and technical aspects of the craft were part of what make the case more compelling when added up. One of those elements was what Travis recounted as the sounds the craft was making. There was a low vibration humm coupled with the high pitch whine of machinery (like turbines?). The craft wasn't still but wobbled slightly (like a top). As he close approached it raised slightly and the sound level increased slightly as it did so.

Something like that. People with better tech savvy than me have surmised that is what sets engineers to getting out slide rules and stuff to figure out the machine quality of these "craft".

But hey, I wasn't there either.

a reply to: julia53

1. that is a tough question. if, for example, you tend to watch shows on this nature, well, it might very well be your subconscious; the mind is a tricky thing

Just a thought. People recount missing time and struggle with dreams that indicate there might have been some memory manipulation to blank or bury the events.

Like you said the mind (subconscious) is a tricky thing. If these measures to make people forget events are valid I would suppose they could also insert false memories that would confuse the persons attempts to remember the actual events and discredit their recounting them in others minds. Certain elements are too fantastical or so obviously delusional so as to make everyone dismiss it as "dreams" or "flights of fancy".

Then again, any real events along those lines would be so extraordinary as to be dismissed by all but the most curious and inquisitive.

What does a fish tell his brother fish after being caught, brought aboard a ship and released back into the ocean?

a reply to: greyer

Yeah but how often do people dream of being returned from a spaceship?

If you search `dreams of alien space ship` you will find many people dream of Alien space ships.
As for the cases you mention , I think the Betty and Barney Hill case amounts to more than the sum of its parts , the story has been inflated to more than it actually was , Betty saw something she couldn't identify which later turned into the abduction legend we know today , I find it interesting that after her sighting she borrowed Donald Keyhoe's book from the library and later wrote to him which set the wheels in motion for this case to become what it has.

I'm unsure about Travis , there are 3 possibilities as I see it.
1 ) He and his friends made it up
2 ) He was abducted by Aliens
3 ) He was used and abused by a branch of the US military as part of a Psyop.

I favour option 3 over option 2.

Wow... I wasn't expecting this topic to get so many answers!

Thank you for the replies, everyone.

a reply to: julia53

Yeah, I think just a dream probably means nothing, but I had a very superficial wound on my hand that same morning (maybe I had it already the day before and I didn't notice? I don't think I did, but it's a possibility).

I usually don't remember my dreams, that was the only one specifically about aliens that I had that I can remember. When I do remember my dreams, I think it's weird that I didn't remember them before because most of the time they are about the same house, a house that has many rooms, and I enter there through a secret part in the wall; those dreams do seem very real. I also have many dreams that I'm being chased, usually by demons or some sort of evil witch, but I think everyone has those.

As for paranormal activity in my life in general, I won't specify, but the answer is YES.

__________

I just remembered: I also had a dream that my soul was floating above my body and I didn't want to leave my bedroom, but I was being taken. Maybe I was astral traveling or something...

a reply to: CollisioN

I agree, I have had dreams that I then experience in real life (déjà vu type), sometimes years later; that at the moment I had them, the situation wouldn't make any sense.

a reply to: Aliensun

Thank you for your information regarding the triangle part. When I was writing the questions, I thought it was important to point out the shape of the "spaceship" in my dream, for some reason.

This is not on topic but if you find that your nightmares a problem,it may be worth learning to meditate.

I used to be tormented by mine until I started,after that I was able to control them when things got out of hand.

originally posted by: Emma3
Wow... I wasn't expecting this topic to get so many answers!

Thank you for the replies, everyone.

a reply to: julia53

Yeah, I think just a dream probably means nothing, but I had a very superficial wound on my hand that same morning (maybe I had it already the day before and I didn't notice? I don't think I did, but it's a possibility).

I usually don't remember my dreams, that was the only one specifically about aliens that I had that I can remember. When I do remember my dreams, I think it's weird that I didn't remember them before because most of the time they are about the same house, a house that has many rooms, and I enter there through a secret part in the wall; those dreams do seem very real. I also have many dreams that I'm being chased, usually by demons or some sort of evil witch, but I think everyone has those.

As for paranormal activity in my life in general, I won't specify, but the answer is YES.

__________

I just remembered: I also had a dream that my soul was floating above my body and I didn't want to leave my bedroom, but I was being taken. Maybe I was astral traveling or something...

ah, now the plot thickens and i am sorry if i came off like 'it was just a dream'..because i don't know that for sure. i am not in the 'camp' as unity as i have seen people who are fascinated by the subject, and thus dream about it..but this does not sound like you, so now we can eliminate that concept.

because--if indeed you were taken this opens up a door that, if not one you need to go through, is a very complex and disturbing one. things is, tho, the big 'yes' is a big tip off--as is your floating dream and the recurring 'dream' about a certain house(make i ask--is is void of windows and doors by chance?). have you heard much of screen imagery? this is a great topic for any and all interested in this phenomena--it is true, it exists, and if one is aware of it, you can see whether or not these images, the ones that are specifically targeted towards you, are in fact cover ups for something more nefarious like abduction youarenotaloneanymore.com...

a mark, a bump..well, could be anything, but document document is what i always tell folks..watch the pattern, see what else you can find in and around an area that appears to have been 'disturbed'..as for the marks, also note their appearance, their duration(many times a huge bruise may appear--only to 'miraculously' heal within a day or so..) so note the anomalies, and, see about others' experiences, not just with the ets, but their paranormal 'stuff'..i bet you have some good ones to tell, would love to hear them

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: julia53

1. that is a tough question. if, for example, you tend to watch shows on this nature, well, it might very well be your subconscious; the mind is a tricky thing

Just a thought. People recount missing time and struggle with dreams that indicate there might have been some memory manipulation to blank or bury the events.

Like you said the mind (subconscious) is a tricky thing. If these measures to make people forget events are valid I would suppose they could also insert false memories that would confuse the persons attempts to remember the actual events and discredit their recounting them in others minds. Certain elements are too fantastical or so obviously delusional so as to make everyone dismiss it as "dreams" or "flights of fancy".

Then again, any real events along those lines would be so extraordinary as to be dismissed by all but the most curious and inquisitive.

What does a fish tell his brother fish after being caught, brought aboard a ship and released back into the ocean?

ha ha i have no idea what fish say to each other..but i do agree with what you are saying, but here is the thing. before one opens that abduction door to another, one must be sure--because in my experience, and the experience of others i know and care about, it is not a passage way i would suggest to anyone unless the evidence was overwhelming.

of course any missing time is a tip off..as are the screen images, as are the bruises, the lights coming in the window, the areas where the grass is sered..yes, i know all about what the 'signs' are, but again, would not wish that on anyone else, and it could have been possible with emma that it was just a 'freak dream'..unfortunately it does not appear that way

but--and i am guessing you are an experiencer also neither you, not emma, nor i, nor many others are alone..through connections and friendships and interactions we can and do get more knowledge of what is really happening

it is a pleasure to make your acquaintence

a reply to: Thurisaz

I saw your post before it was removed, so I know what you said

__________

Some of you mentioned the missing time in some of the abduction scenarios. That's one of the reasons that makes me think this is just a cover up for government operations. (if you are familiar with MK Ultra you probably get what I mean, the missing time and/or scrambled memory being consistent with DID)

The alien theme being just a disguise for the people to find it difficult to believe what happened to themselves and, in case they would want to share their experiences, be ridiculed and labeled mentally ill...

a reply to: intrptr

That rhetorical question of yours made me laugh

a reply to: julia53

No need to apologize, you didn't sound like that to me, I was just saying that. That part about the house not having doors or windows... it actually doesn't! It doesn't have windows at all and the walls have the format for a door to be there, but there's no door, and I can see the other rooms. Or do you mean that the room is supposed to be all walls, with no opening whatsoever? Those dreams seem so real that when I'm dreaming them, I sometimes think about how something in the dream doesn't make sense, but I always think like "when I'm awake...", not "in real life...". Creepy.

I did a very quick reading of your link, just to try to get the basic idea and I think I'm right about the doors, you meant there isn't supposed to be any openings, right? That part wouldn't really apply to what I said, then. But the part where it says they can mask themselves as other people is familiar to me; I've had suspicious dreams where my deceased grandmother was giving me indications of what to do and I didn't have a good relationship with her when she was alive, so it wouldn't really make sense that that was my own mind giving me advice with her imagery, because I wouldn't chose her to impersonate good advice that I would like to follow... Rather, she would be related with the evil witch type that used to stalk me in my nightmares as a kid (which I also think is related with the crone, the old hag imagery; like the witch in the wizard of Oz, too - again, if you know about MK Ultra, you probably got what I said). I began thinking about this like a year ago, that she was probably a representation for something bad but important, and what do you know? The next dream I had of that sort, both my grandmother and my grandfather were there, but she stood behind, as in an attempt that maybe I wasn't going to remember her there and she made him go near me, to give me a paper with the "instructions". This also relates with the memory part that I was talking about earlier: the instructions were that I was to "clean"/ wash something very white (probably the memory of an event) and I was to write something else there (the cover memory).

I hope you get what I mean, as English is not my native language sometimes it can be a little hard for me to explain something that was already difficult to explain even in my native language...

a reply to: julia53

but--and i am guessing you are an experiencer also neither you, not emma, nor i, nor many others are alone..through connections and friendships and interactions we can and do get more knowledge of what is really happening

I only saw a "craft" once and had another experience I vetted here but can't find anymore. Neither involved direct contact that I know of. Because of my experiences though, I have read a great a deal about it over a life time, studying the cases that intrigue me so much. I am looking for similar experiences in an effort to understand more. I do thoroughly enjoy threads like these and meeting open minds that have no preconceived notions or inhibitions.

it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance

Thank you, Likewise, I am sure.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: DJW001

It's an hypothesis that fits the facts and is more commonsensical than thinking it is evidence of extraterrestrial visitation.

Well of course its out of the realm of experience. They aren't from here. How can anyone really relate?

Cargo Cults

How do we know there's a "they" and that they're not from here? There are all sorts of possibilities.

originally posted by: crayzeed
I can't understand the double dealing with memories when it comes to alien abductions. When people want to debunk the alien angle they hit at false or implanted memories as if just the alien abduction memories are false. Let me tell all of you who do or do not believe in them. No matter what any leading brain mechanics say about recovered memories, ALL memories are recovered that's what memories are. Now memories (whoops, when in a court of law) can get you put in jail for long periods of time and can even get you executed, but when it comes to alien abductions they can't be relied on, they're false. Come on people you can't have it both ways.

Lies can get you put in prison or executed, too. Juries either believe witnesses or they don't. Either way, it doesn't prove that witnesses are telling the truth. In fact, we know that people have been falsely imprisoned based on "memories" of witnesses because hard evidence (blood, etc.) has later proven that someone else committed the crime. Memories are notoriously unreliable. On top of that, there's not an iota of testable evidence proving that "aliens" even exist, let alone are here abducting people.

I certainly believe that unidentified flying objects exist and I believe that some people have undergone bizarre experiences that they believe are related to them. But that belief does not translate to hard evidence about the real nature of the experiences.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Tangerine

This doesn't mean that some of the people who report having been "abducted" are lying. It means that there could be other explanations, some very mundane and some even stranger than alien abductions.

Roger that.

I've had encounters of the spirit kind. The one "craft" I saw was not a dream or a spirit. Two totally different things.

How could you possibly know the range of "spirit" appearances and what do you mean by "spirit kind"?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Tangerine

But it was Travis, who failed the lie detector test, who claimed that he was abducted by aliens.

On that game show, moment of truth, the contestant is given questions on stage before a live audience while hooked to a lie detector being monitored off stage. He failed that question decades after the event.

Not what I would call a valid test result.

I am basing this on my memory that his friends never claimed to have seen any "aliens".

They reportedly fled the scene right when Travis got "zapped" so I think thats correct.

Certain elements to the weirdness and technical aspects of the craft were part of what make the case more compelling when added up. One of those elements was what Travis recounted as the sounds the craft was making. There was a low vibration humm coupled with the high pitch whine of machinery (like turbines?). The craft wasn't still but wobbled slightly (like a top). As he close approached it raised slightly and the sound level increased slightly as it did so.

Something like that. People with better tech savvy than me have surmised that is what sets engineers to getting out slide rules and stuff to figure out the machine quality of these "craft".

But hey, I wasn't there either.

The fact that courts don't allow lie detector test results suggests that they can't always be relied upon. At the same time, you don't get to pick and choose which lie detector test results are valid and which aren't.

I don't see how the "technical aspects" of the case make it more compelling. Anyone who has watched TV, gone to the movies, or been exposed to technology could have come up with that stuff.

originally posted by: Emma3
I would like to hear your opinions on the following (you can answer just 1 or 2, if you want to):

1 - If someone has a dream about being put back home from a (triangular) spaceship, do you think that means something or was it just a random dream?
2 - How often do abductees remember their abductions and how much of it do they remember?
3 - Do the memories feel like real memories or more like a dream type of thing?

Thank you in advance

Hello, Emma3:
These are good questions, and you've received a lot of wisdom in answers, already. What I'd like to add to these answers is a generalized thing to apply to all UFO questions, and it's simply this: The answers to all questions is almost never one or the other absolute, but a mixture of both. The UFO matter, itself, is a particularly mind bending rabbit hole. Sometimes your dreams are just that. And sometimes they are real experiences, that as you recover them, feel and seem, dreamlike. I would say you must vet your experience as to the details, as has been mentioned. In Communion, Mr. Streiber describes several, very detailed encounters, involving complex interactions that affected his and his family's life in a HUGE way, such that there was almost no denying it as recovered (READ: skeptical of reality) memory from subconscious.

One must also consider MILABS. There is a great deal of fakery and trickery involved, as well, so that it's hard to tell, sometimes, what has happened to you. There are also many, many folks who have physical symptomolgy, and real signs on their bodies and skin that is hard to deny or debunk….

In general, I think when you first begin to remember, much of it seems dream like, partly because you've likely been hypnotized, or put into some kind of fugue state. I would also research fugue states, how they affect you.

Lastly, someone brought up other cultures. The Aborigenees of Australia, for instance, have rituals involving astral travel, and this is a real thing, as well. Researching this may also be helpful.
Take care, Emma3.
tetra50

a reply to: Tangerine

How do we know there's a "they" and that they're not from here? There are all sorts of possibilities.

Not for me.

What I saw one night wasn't from here. Its a choice I had to make… Either deny it or admit it.

a reply to: Tangerine

I don't see how the "technical aspects" of the case make it more compelling. Anyone who has watched TV, gone to the movies, or been exposed to technology could have come up with that stuff.

Not back in 1975.

Here bee your own skeptic… there are plenty of both sides to every case.

Link

a reply to: Tangerine

How could you possibly know the range of "spirit" appearances and what do you mean by "spirit kind"?

Just say I don't believe you. its okay, I can take it.

I do't really feel like trying to convince a skeptic. I don't have any proof anyway.

Suffice to say I have had both encounters. Spirits are not "craft" is about as simple as I can port it. Quite easy in fact to tell the difference.