Jesus vs. Yahweh - The Future of Mankind Hangs in the Balance

originally posted by: lonewolf19792000
Don't wanna burst your bubble but i simply must. Jesus is IEUE (Yehweh Sabaoth).

Was this to me? The point of the thread outlines this. I see him as the Son of God, while Elohim (Genesis 1) is Father. Ruach Elohim is Mother, or the Spirit of all living. Yahweh receive a new name when he experiences involution into the river of life. As with all of us, this allows us to reach back to the Father and discover who we truly are above. Yahweh had to be fully human to be humbled as the Son of God. Check back the past threads.

a reply to: DazDaKing

You are naive if you think what I wrote is a product of Sitchen

Alright, you got me. I really don't like sitchin and your post had a tint of his ramblings. I've read the Epic more than once and am familiar with myths in the region. You aren't the first person with that argument I've encountered. The problem I have with what you said is you're inserting your own narrative into the facts! My facts are scriptural or archaeological.

it makes much more sense for them to be originated from a physical interaction in our past than some supernatural, intangible God

Pot calling the kettle black. Neither of us can support what we say with empirical facts. If you can shoot now? I believe there is a veil between this world and God's world and occasionally they both interact. The two realms have been theorized without drawing any specific religious conclusions by popular philosophers for hundreds of years. I'll quote Kant on the topic:

In the grand scheme of Kant’s thought, the phenomenal and noumenal distinction are the features that represent the division of reality into the sensible and intelligible realms. The phenomenal element is concerned with the realm of experience of an empirical world, which synthesizes representations in the temporal, spatial, and conceptual world encapsulating the domain of appropriate sensuous knowledge[1]; the noumena, or the thing in itself (Ding an sich), while serving as the intelligible ground of the empirical realm, cannot be known but only thought

link

But may I ask, what exactly did I say that is NOT contained in official translations? I will go and find every reference for you happily. I bet it was the mention of a council of Gods. This is touched upon a few times, and even as late as in the early Torah texts, where YHWH is referred to as being allotted Earth as his domain by his superiors.

aliens created mankind? That's what you read into the mythology. There's no doubt that someone could get that after reading the stories but you have to enter your own suppositions for it take on that meaning.

Yes, the Bible mentions a divine council in heaven numerous times. The part you're confused about is YHWH is not an underling. You're talking about the allotment post-diluvian right? That's Duet. 32:8, where Moses during his farewell speech is waxing nostalgic about the genealogies after the flood.

When the Most High assigned lands to the nations,
when he divided up the human race,
he established the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number in his heavenly court.

I'll include the notation at the end. It supports that Yhwh was in charge and simply chose Israel as his own.

As in Dead Sea Scrolls, which read the number of the sons of God, and Greek version, which reads the number of the angels of God; Masoretic Text reads the number of the sons of Israel.

originally posted by: jmdewey60

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
(2011 NIV)
you would see that Jesus is saying the opposite of your idea of "Faith alone", where just claiming things from Jesus is not enough, but you have to actually do what the teachings say.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Faith alone. Straight out of the mouth of Jesus.

This is for the purpose of salvation only. This is what you rely on to save you.
It's the first step. From there, if you love God, you do your best to walk in the spirit every day.
If doing good works were the basis for salvation, no one would make it. There is none good, no not one.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So if you're "keeping the whole law" (relying on it for your salvation) and offend in just one point, you're guilty of all.

I'm not telling anyone to stop the good works that they're doing. God commands us to do good works.
Should we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!
But the grace will still abound.

Now faith without works is dead. Now, the problem here is that people who say those who do no works have no faith. Saying that faith doesn't exist without works. Is that what the Bible says? "Now faith without works is non-existent." No, that's not what it says. So there is such a thing as faith without works. It doesn't profit anyone, and you can't prove that faith to anyone, but it is still there.

All I'm telling people is that their salvation is dependent on believing on Jesus.

a reply to: graphuto

So now, your God is not love nor is he justice because to him breaking one law is the same as breaking all and all you need is faith alone - so your actions don't really matter.

a reply to: arpgme

I never said that a persons actions don't matter. We should do good for the sake of doing good, and helping others, and to show our faith, and love for God.

Any 'saved' person who thinks for a second that they can just live in sin without being chastised by God is sorely mistaken :

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

a reply to: graphuto

I repeat:

So now, your God is not love nor is he justice because to him breaking one law is the same as breaking all and all you need is faith alone - so your actions don't really matter.

Notice the key-word: NEED

All you NEED is faith alone for salvation so nothing else is needed/necessary.

That is not love NOR justice.

a reply to: arpgme

Sure it is. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. God is holy, and perfect. Sin makes us un-holy, and imperfect. We can't even approach Him in that state.

"Justice" would be for us to be destroyed. Since He loves us, and wants us to be with Him, and Him with us, He makes it very easy for us to eventually be made holy through Jesus : Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you honestly telling me that you think you're good enough to be saved?
I'm not. I don't even come close to hitting the mark. I sin every day.

It may not seem like justice to you, but you aren't God. Whether you like it or not, it is the way it is.

Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

a reply to: graphuto

This is for the purpose of salvation only. This is what you rely on to save you.
It's the first step. From there, if you love God, you do your best to walk in the spirit every day.
If doing good works were the basis for salvation, no one would make it. There is none good, no not one.

The "none good" thing is a quote from the Old Testament that Paul was using as an argument from the Law, or the Book of Moses of the Jews, to show that even the Jewish book itself does not support the idea of salvation by following the book.
What you are doing wrong is missing the point of the argument which is that there is a way of righteousness through Christ.

Your other thing that you are off on is the idea of salvation in the Bible, where you are defining it by a later usage of the word and trying to retrofit the Bible with a definition that was not in the mind of the writers of the Bible.
Salvation in the Bible is a declaration of an attribute of God, that he is ultimately savior, but He has a way of going about it by having a group of people who He is the savior of, and so in the Old Testament, you have this thing, Israel, who are brought from Egypt to Sinai to be saved, and in the New Testament, you have the church with is this group that Jesus gathered from the world, based on their believing in him in the same way as the former group believed in Moses.
Ultimately the group under God's protection and patronage are saved, regardless of the eventuality of individuals along the way falling out and being lost.

a reply to: jmdewey60

I wish there was a nicer way to say this, and I don't mean to be mean at all here :

I never really understand your posts to me. It's almost like we're in agreement in some roundabout way. I almost get the feeling that you're implying that you have this higher knowledge of what we're talking about, but when you remove all the un-necessary words, to me it looks like we're saying the same thing.

a reply to: graphuto

Sure it is. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. God is holy, and perfect. Sin makes us un-holy, and imperfect. We can't even approach Him in that state.

"Justice" would be for us to be destroyed.

So because people are not God, they automatically deserve to be destroyed? How is that Justice?

Are you honestly telling me that you think you're good enough to be saved?
I'm not.

Saved by what from who? Saved by faith in a human sacrifice from the destruction of the same god who demanded the human sacrifice?

If he needes to save people from himself, then real salvation would be not to follow this god, but only The True God.

It may not seem like justice to you, but you aren't God.

Either it's Justice or it isn't. It doesn't matter what person is doing it.

it is the way it is.

Therefore, Justice doesn't really matter, nor does Love. This is not a god of Justice or Love but a god that does whatever he wants.

a reply to: arpgme

So you don't believe the Bible at all. Why pretend to believe parts of it, and actively lead people astray?
You're a false prophet, and of your father, the devil.
May God have mercy on your soul.

a reply to: graphuto

originally posted by: graphuto

So you don't believe the Bible at all. Why pretend to believe parts of it, and actively lead people astray?

I believe in the verses that preach Love because God is Love, anything else is not of The Spirit.

originally posted by: graphuto
You're a false prophet, and of your father, the devil.
May God have mercy on your soul.

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." - John 8:44

Sounds more like your god than mine. According to this verse, you are of your father - the devil, which is why you believe everyone should be destroyed by your god unless they accept a human sacrifice - "He was a murderer from the beginning".

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: arpgme

Sin makes us un-holy, and imperfect. We can't even approach Him in that state. This is not in the bible. How did Satan approach God in Job ? How do you think evil is overcome? By God approaching it. God is filling all in all.

"Justice" would be for us to be destroyed. No, No, NO that is not justice that is retribution. Justice is Shalom. Full Reconciliation of all parties. That is God's Justice. Mans is the petty retributive justice. Like our "justice" system in america, its everything but.

Since He loves us, and wants us to be with Him, and Him with us, He makes it very easy for us to eventually be made holy through Jesus : Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. If God is God, and he wants something, don't you think it will come to pass? "By my will I have sworn to me Every knee shall bow, and Every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father" Everyone will confess yes? "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord you shall be SAVED". Hmmmmmmm???????

Are you honestly telling me that you think you're good enough to be saved? This idea that we are not good enough, or vile in Gods eyes is a disgusting lie of the devil. "God was in Christ reconciling the world(Kosmos/all things) to Himself, NOT COUNTING THEIR TRESSPASSES AGAINST THEM, and entrusting to us the message of Reconciliation"

I'm not. I don't even come close to hitting the mark. I sin every day. And God never loves you any less, nor anyone else, "God is love".

It may not seem like justice to you, but you aren't God. Whether you like it or not, it is the way it is. No thats right we slimy humans have a higher level of morality than your god. We find it disgusting that a parent would ever torture his child, yet we proclaim the "good news" that you better turn or burn? That the God and Father of all, the creator and sustainer would make things that will suffer for all of eternity because they didn't ask Jesus into their heart by the magic prayer so they had a personal relationship with him (none of this is in the bible but is a corrupted doctrine of demons)

a reply to: zardust

This idea that we are not good enough, or vile in Gods eyes is a disgusting lie of the devil.

Interestingly enough it didn't come from "the devil" it came from Paul...


hmmm...

You people don't hate me. You hate God and the Bible.
Oh well...

7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

a reply to: Akragon

Really? Because I don't see it. You continue to make these claims but could you back it up? I hear these same vague arguments from many on this site, that Paul did this and that, but with no real explanation.

Thanks

a reply to: graphuto

More christianisms, the martyr mentality. Nobody said they hate you. And nobody said they hate the bible (at least in this thread). Hey let me ask you, which of the 25,000 denominations are correct in their interpretation?

a reply to: zardust

. . . which of the 25,000 denominations are correct in their interpretation?

24,999 are correct, in the belief that Christian theology should be based on the Bible.

From the Wikipedia article on Protestantism:

Individual denominations also have formed over very subtle theological differences.
Other denominations are simply regional or ethnic expressions of the same beliefs.
Most denominations share common beliefs in the major aspects of the Christian faith while differing in many secondary doctrines, although what is major and what is secondary is a matter of idiosyncratic belief.

a reply to: jmdewey60

24,999 are correct, in the belief that Christian theology should be based on the Bible.

The question was which are correct in their INTERPRETATION.

If they really have the Holy Spirit guiding them to understand these scriptures. then they should all agree on what is taught IN the bible, but of course this is not the case since they all disagree on some things.

originally posted by: graphuto
You people don't hate me. You hate God and the Bible.
Oh well...

7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

We may dislike what you become because of what you believe in the bible...

The fact that you tell people they hate God because they disagree with you disgusts me personally... which is also bearing false witness against others.... but I do not hate you or the bible... and certainly not God

You should check yourself... big time!