Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: ladyteeny
i can't help wondering if someone powerful has got a grudge against malaysia airlines

They may well have (Malaysia at least); as a poster in this thread has already relayed; in 2011 the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission found Bush & Blair guilty of 'Crimes Against Peace' as the tribunal concluded the invasion of Iraq was unlawful. Sheer speculation, of course...

Who exactly was filming and uploaded the video of those passports? If the Russian separatists got controlled of the black box, then I'm pretty sure they must have gotten control of the crashed site, so how could a Ukranian have recorded such evidence?

originally posted by: [post=18162129]
it also doesn't seem logical that the rebels learned to handle a BUK missile launcher well enough within a short time, to shot down a passenger plane in 10 kilometer heigth. As far as I read, only experts can shot down such targets with BUK.

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If i remember it correctly, quite a few ukrainian soldiers sided with the separatists when the conflict started. So its possiblible that they have people who can operate BUKs but just lacked the actual hardware before they captured one.

a reply to: np6888

They have indeed - in fact, the rebels are being so awfully kind and generous, by "allowing" investigators access to the crash site... After they whisked off the black box, of course, and handed it to Moscow.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Vovin
As for your "all available evidence" comment, I don't know what you're talking about. Kiev claims a Buk SAM took out the plane because they knew the separatist had captured some Buk mobile units. Yet Kiev forces had Buk-M1 units deployed and operational just 30km from Donetsk.

But why would Ukraine even fire? They are in a position of actually being able to ID the plane from their own national ATC as well as not actually having fired at a plane so far in the conflict, because the rebels don't have any! Whereas the rebels do have form for firing on aircraft....

Cry all you like, but if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and sh1ts like a duck, it is probably a duck.

Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers send this plane right over Donetsk when all other passenger planes were sent either north or south of hostile areas in east Ukraine?

As for why would the Ukrainian Army fire on the plane is they knew it was a passenger plane? Well, regardless of who actually did it, if it was even shot down at all, it seems like most people have already concluded, along with western media and politicians, that the separatists had done it. Seems like if that was the goal it was successful. Watch Obama campaign NATO to heroically back Ukrainians against the terrorist threat of Buks by sending more aid to Ukraine and more sanctions to Russia.

a reply to: np6888

It was the separatists and the locals.

a reply to: Vovin

And we have evidence for this, or is this just more speculation on your part, Vovin? It is easy enough to check, you know, from publicly available fight tracking services, so don't go posting some obscure link to a Youtube video or dodgy website....

EDIT: I have just checked historic flight data for MH17 and every daily flight for weeks has taken the same route. Check it here

Whatever

a reply to: Eagleyedobserver

That's not the flight - for starters, that looks like a 747, not a 777.

EDIT:I should have quoted you so everyone could see what I was referring too, now you've edited it out.

a reply to: Eagleyedobserver

That is old footage of another airplane crashing, *not* flight MH17.

The Youtube account is "trollolvideos"...

a reply to: stumason

Yeah just realized it. Sorry. The place looked really similar to the crash site thats why I thought it might be real. Also next to a road like the crash site...

There's nothing to joke about. These trolls should get the F*** off the internet. They really think this is funny. I can only Shake my head!

a reply to: Eagleyedobserver
That is not this crash, this was a military plane that had an issue on take off. Don't remember much more about it, but that video is pretty old.

originally posted by: Eagleyedobserver
Whatever

That is NOT the crash. Old video.

A civilian cargo aircraft crashed at Bagram Air Field near the Afghan capital Kabul on Monday, killing all seven people aboard. The plane came down shortly after take-off and crashed within the boundaries of the US-run airbase, a NATO spokesperson at the base said. The Taliban quickly claimed responsibility for the crash, but the coalition dismissed the claim as "false" in a statement to AP. The cause of the crash is being investigated by emergency crews, but no sign of insurgent activity in the area was spotted at the time, the statement added.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Vovin

And we have evidence for this, or is this just more speculation on your part, Vovin? It is easy enough to check, you know, from publicly available fight tracking services, so don't go posting some obscure link to a Youtube video or dodgy website....

EDIT: I have just checked historic flight data for MH17 and every daily flight for weeks has taken the same route. Check it here

Yeah, I've seen lots of sources confirming this. Maybe you should try looking harder.

originally posted by: RealByReel
This was posted on the 17th a month ago:

twitter.com...

Скоро над Руиной будет сбит лайнер битком набитый невинными евро-туристами. Це явится поводом для официального приглашения НАТО. Так вижу.

Google Translate:

Soon will be shot down over the ruins of the liner packed full of innocent euro-tourists. Tse will be the occasion for the official invitation to NATO. So I see.

This right here ^^^^^^ needs more attention than its getting!!!

a reply to: Vovin

I don't have to, I'm not the one making the claim. Seems to me like you've been caught out making something up, Vovin.. Not like you at all....

As far as I can tell, going back over all of July's previous flights for MH17, this is a perfectly normal route for it to be flying. Of course, you're going to simply ignore me, the evidence I posted for this and carry on making these silly claims in an attempt to help Mother Russia save face, but hey...

Carrying up to 100 AIDS/HIV researchers en route to a conference?

You would have to say that an aircraft carrying that many people related to the same cause could become a specific target.

There is a bit of a track record of anti-homosexual leanings in this part of the world. Just saying.

a reply to: stumason

This article on Zerohedge suggests Vovin may be correct and you do need to dig deeper:

www.zerohedge.com...

Sergei Lavrov in an interview to Russia -24 said that Russia do not intend to take over deciphering the black boxes as it is the responsibility of ICAO and the relevant goverments. Thus the black boxes will be handed over to them.

Link

Use chrome to translate

The flight path did change and the contact with the plane was lost as soon as it entered Ukrainian airspace ...


First witness reports said that there was a fighter plane that was flying next to the B 777.

For the separatists to use BUK, they needed separate radar system to track and lock the plane. Russian official today said that they have records of Ukrainian radar systems activating at the same time the plane was shot down. Ukrainian officials today admitted that only BUK systems separatists took control of, doesn't work.

People forget that hundreds satellites in the orbit and earth-based tracking systems record everything. Together with the data from the black boxes, the story will be soon known to the public. USA, Ukrainian and Russian officials already know the truth. Now we will see about a week of propaganda from both sides and truth afterwards.