Why do peole think that Jesus was god?

a reply to: OpinionatedB

predestination and freewill... some believe in one, others believe in the other, I believe in a mixture of the two. Some things we do not and cannot choose - such as our place of birth, our parents, etc - and other things we can and do choose - such as our actions and our reactions to the circumstances in which we are surrounded.

I agree that it is a big mix.

originally posted by: jmdewey60

Maybe you don't know any Seventh Day Adventists.
They are all about "LIVING their faith" to the the point of being annoying to other people who are not all that concerned about a literal judgment.

She doesn't, but where we've moved to, she'll probably eventually run into some, as well as some other annoying sorts who won't leave a soul be because they think you're not looking out after your soul the way they think you ought to be. Some folks call those types "missionaries", and some call it "witnessing", but I just call it damned annoying.

Believe it or not, there are worse around than SDA for those sorts of things. Some of the worst around here are called "Free-Willers" or "Free-Will Baptists" (not too many Jehovah's Witnesses around here - they're not, um, "received well"), and they can be forever annoying because they think they can change your will to suit their line of thought.

If they could change your will to be in line with theirs, how "free" would it really be?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Maybe you don't know any Seventh Day Adventists.

No. I don't. I know some of Christianity, the most christian influence in my life came from my grandmother we spent two weeks every year with and my husband now, although we haven't been married but two years now (or almost so), and the odd person or two I have crossed paths with in my life... I used to take lunch break at the same time as my neighbor and we would sit and discuss religion, his views verses mine, for a few months I believe.

My grandmother, she was big on it. I know the song amazing grace from her.... I used to sing that to my children. She wrote her own sermon for her funeral telling us on how she wanted us to know about her God. It was nice really... she was a wonderful woman whom I have no doubt is in heaven.

I am Muslim - (Shia specifically although I don't suppose that means much to you), and just learning about Christianity for the first time with any interest.

Some people came knocking on my door once who were wanting to talk about religion, and I was kind and had asked them for a bible since I didn't own one and religion was a topic of conversation when I met my husband and I thought it would be nice to have one, but when they found out I didn't have a bible in my home I think they got scared and never came back even though I had asked them too... lol.... I guess I don't know what they were though.

To be fair, I have known many people who called themselves christian, yet from looking at their lives, it never struck me to wonder anything at all about their beliefs.... they didn't have any.

My husband, my grandmother, and that neighbor, they were the only ones I have ever known that I would consider christian.

a reply to: nenothtu

I'll hide behind you.

a reply to: orangetom1999

..but Melchazidek is the everlasting priesthood. The Priesthood of Christ.

The point the writer was making is of a priest class of one.
It was one with Melchizedek, and it is one with Jesus.

the Believer knows Peace is the name of an individual.

I don't know where you get that from.

This is why so many have problems with the words or the Sabbath..for the Sabbath...Rest..Peace is also a person..not a day. We are not to keep days...times ..months..years. Sabbath..the day or time of Rest....for we Rest in Him..always...every day.

This seems to be a philosophy rather than a Bible teaching.
Hebrews 4:11
Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
(2011 NIV)
Making effort, or "to act fervently" in the figurative sense of the Greek, is the opposite of resting.
The "rest" is the goal of our activity.
None of what is being said in Hebrews has anything to do with the literal weekly Sabbath from the Ten Commandments.
The writer is just using it to make an analogy.

So many cannot see past these traditions..whether Hebrew or Gentile...for with the Sabbath ..none of this mattered.
This is another reason for the demise of the temple by 70 ad.

I hope that you are not saying that the Sabbath was the cause.

...by covering us with His redeeming Blood.

This comes from your reading the King James.
King James gave orders to make the translation to support already existing church doctrine.
I was just looking at Revelation 1:5, where it says, "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood," where in the King James, it says, "Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,".
There isn't anything in the Greek to justify that translation, unless it is just tradition.
You claim to not follow traditions of men, but you use the most loaded with tradition translation there is.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I am Muslim - (Shia specifically although I don't suppose that means much to you),

It does, and I am sympathetic towards them, knowing some Iranians.

jmdewey60,

This happened a long time ago with the Catholic Church adopting the old pagan rituals of the Romans to where they pretend that they can offer Jesus' blood as if they somehow owned it and were giving it to God, bit by bit.

Wow!1 jmdewey60,

Anyone well taught in the Word..knows that this is still going on and in the same or similar pattern amongst the Protestant Churches today. Counterfeit doctrine, counterfeit Bibles to back up the counterfeit doctrine...and lead and mislead believers over to the god of this world and his doctrine of counterfeits...ie..traditions of men. Anything to get men off and away from God's Word..from God's Light. Unto another light.

This is not just stuck in some historical time warp...back in history but also going on right now. This is what Solomon warned us about..with "Nothing new under the sun."

This is pretty pessimistic, and in my opinion, unfounded.
The "god of this world", as far as I am concerned, is just the idea that people had about what God was, from before Jesus came, that was now fading away as the knowledge of the gospel was being spread.
Joseph Atwill, in his book, Caesar's Messiah, presents a pretty good theory, I think, that the demons that Jesus was casting out was the spirit of rebellion that people had at the time, to fight a war against the Romans.

Not so jmdewey60. Not so.

For I have questioned two different times...men under oath...another oath than that suspected by most people. Under luciferian oath.

They have readily admitted to me that there is a counterfeit system overlaying the system that most people see and know out here...and overlaying it without most even knowing it is taking place. They have admitted to me that this is a zealous and devout counterfeit religious system for it to be so deeply entrenched without most people even knowing of it's existence. Just as had done the Hebrew leadership of olde overlaid Talmudic law and tradition over the Law of Moses as if it were so when it was no such thing. So too have our leadership overlaid this counterfeit religion devoutly and zealously over the law of our land.
They readily admitted this to me..that much of our history is hidden and a lie and deception.

And this is not the astounding part...the most astonishing.

What was so astonishing after all these admissions..is what they declared to me when I asked them the name of this counterfeit god ..this god of the traditions of men.

They declared to me that they could not tell me the name of their god..for they had taken an oath.

Now I am here to tell you ..jmdewey60..when a man cannot tell you the name of their god..it is a very very very strange thing to behold. Not once..but twice.

Don't ever try to tell me a thing does not exist or is an idea. I don't care how many authors or "Experts" you try to post..for I have seen this with my own eyes and heard with my own ears..not once..but twice.

They cannot tell you the name of their god. And this Is not pessimistic. It is real...!!

What is pessimistic is that you seem not want to explain this practical knowledge verses just studious laboratory book learning..or "Experts."


I am talking about one blood line here..

What is that?

A Believer would automatically understand this statement and not have to ask such an question. A Believer would know sufficient Olde and New Testament to know what is being spoken here.

be ye separate sayeth the Lord

That sort of thinking does not apply in the New Testament.

This is from the New Testament. How be it that you seem to know this not??


...and their god..the counterfeiter

There is not somehow another god out there pretending to be a different god than who he really is.

Then Jesus lied when he told the Hebrew leadership that they were of their father the devil ..and the devil was a liar and the father of it.

What are you teaching here???

Jesus did not literally give his blood to some sort of deity who demanded payment in blood to satisfy a supposed "sin debt".
That just didn't happen, and it didn't even happen in the Old Testament.
What we have is a way to make a sort of analogy between Jesus and a High Priest, where a priest would carry blood with him into the Most Holy place on the Day of Atonement, where Jesus entered Heaven through his own offering which was his life of righteousness and obedience.
Foxx was probably burdened with some bad theology that was prevalent in his day.

Good grief!! What are you quoting here?? This is not New Testament. It is not even Olde Testament which testified of the same thing..that he would come...that he would replace the traditions of men..and the Olde Testament. A new covenant would be coming...fortold in the Olde Testament.

Foxx was testifying to the history which happened and can be found in existing records. Even the RCC has records of this happening. This area here from the Virginia coast to the mountains is called Piedmont..in the olde days. There was a Piedmont Air Lines operating here in years past. Piedmont is the area in Europe where God's people were to be found untainted by the Traditions of Men and they did not follow the Septuagint or any of the other traditional versions of mans making.

What are you teaching here???

 This is what is meant by he was perfect in his generations.

It seemed like you were connecting that to "bloodlines", whatever that is.
I think that if you have an actual point, you should make it, rather than all these obscure allusions to something you don't explain.

Those well versed in the Word know that not only is a bloodline of the flesh but of the spirit as well. That there is a spirit of men and a Spirit of God. Noah was perfect in his generations..meaning in his bloodline and in Spirit...both.

We have the bloodline of Noah..back to Adam and Eve..and onto Jesus the Christ for Remission of sins recorded in God's Word.

How be it that you do not seem want to grasp this understanding??

Starting a new post
Orangetom

Continued,

Jesus and The Word..never used the Talmud and in fact spoke against it if you know how to read His Word. Nor do you find other esoteric traditions of men in His Word.

The Masoretic version of the Old Testament was created after the New Testament was created, that was in the era that the Talmud was written, so would have been adjusted to fit that philosophy, while the Septuagint existed before that, so you have about a 600 year gap where changes to the Masoretic could be made.

The Talmud is known to be of oral tradition long before it was written down going back to Babylon and before..when the Hebrews came into contact with it in captivity. And many of them loved the Talmud and with what it allowed them to get away and do.

They were disobedient and were attempting to infiltrate Talmudic man made rules over the Law of Moses long before captivity and they were punished many times for this kind of whoredom.
This type of oral Talmudic practice was around long before a Septuagint.

What are you teaching here???

Give me the name of the god of your tradition..while attempting to make it so that others are doing this??? This is confusion...after the god of confusion.

For Believers never have to pose the questions you have asked here.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Don't ever try to tell me a thing does not exist or is an idea. I don't care how many authors or "Experts" you try to post..

People exist who have beliefs that are different from ours but they don't have the power to make their "god" real.
I think you are misapplying Paul's comment in 2 Corinthians about the god of this world.
An interpretation of that I think you can see in Acts, where the writer tells this story of Paul in Athens saying that his God did not have to live in a temple, or be fed on sacrifices, while at that moment, in Jerusalem, that very thing was going on, or at least that was what people believed was going on.
That was the god of this world, a material god who needed to be housed and fed, while Paul knew a God who was spiritual and didn't need any of those things.
The "fading away" would have been a prediction of that temple being taken away, and the memory of it fading away, at least in a practical way, where the Jews lost the feeling that they were going to be doing temple ceremonies real soon.

What is pessimistic is that you seem not want to explain this practical knowledge verses just studious laboratory book learning..or "Experts."

I'm missing the point here, where satanic propaganda is somehow useful.
The word and the truth is the weapons against evil.

be ye separate sayeth the Lord
This is from the New Testament. How be it that you seem to know this not??

It's Paul quoting Isaiah 52:11, using that to add emphasis to his teaching for Christians to not marry pagans.
Unless you are talking about marriage, then you are misapplying the verse.

Then Jesus lied when he told the Hebrew leadership that they were of their father the devil ..and the devil was a liar and the father of it.
What are you teaching here???

That is metaphor for the way they just lied to him, saying they were never slaves, when supposedly they were, according to their own book, in Egypt.
The NIV version of last line of John 8:44 should be a clue to the metaphorical nature of Jesus' saying here,
When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
I think Jesus just means the opposite of God because the Jews were saying that they had no other God than God Himself.

Piedmont is the area in Europe where God's people were to be found untainted by the Traditions of Men . . .

I've been there, in northern Italy, and you are probably talking about the Waldensians who lived on the Italian side of the Alps that you can see from Torino (Turin) where the palace of the house of Savoy is, the government seat of Piedmont.

. . . and they did not follow the Septuagint . . .

They were early protestants who were literally slaughtered like animals by Charles Borromeo.
I think they were buying on the black market, printed pages of the New Testament from Germany.
To this day, the Septuagint is problematic and why I have my blog to make a translation of it.
So it is no surprising thing that they didn't use it.

Noah was perfect in his generations..

I thought we went over that already, that it just meant that Noah was the best person of his generation.
Here it looks like you are making it out to mean that he was genetically perfect.
That is just weird because none of us are because we suffer from DNA breakdown from things like cosmic rays.
Jesus does not have magic blood.
Remission is just a King James Bible word for forgiveness.
I does not mean a payment, it means to forget about it.

a reply to: roth1

Man decided Jesus was God but man does not have the power to make Jesus God. I do not agree with those who say Jesus is God. I am a servant of God not his son. This did not happen until the council of Nicaea. Where as I stated man determined Jesus was God.

No where in the Bible does it say Jesus is God. In fact it separates them by name. It is clearly written he was the son not the father. Although you will never change anyone's mind on this. I however will not worship false idols.

a reply to: orangetom1999

The Talmud is known to be of oral tradition long before it was written down going back to Babylon and before..

No, it is not "known" to be from "before".
That was the Mishmash, that the Talmud talks about.
Jews were still living in Baghdad up to the time of W. Bush's war on Iraq.
It is recognized by linguists that an oral tradition can't be over three hundred years old because it isn't possible to maintain it intact longer without writing it down
The Mishnah was not written down until 200 AD, after the New Testament was written.

This type of oral Talmudic practice was around long before a Septuagint.

Maybe there was a practice of oral sayings, which all cultures had.
That does not mean that when they did write it down, the actual subject matter itself was the same as it was 500 years earlier.
Your problem is that you are being propagandized by the cult that you belong to, that seems to want to discredit the Greek language, which is built into "King James Only" ideology.

Give me the name of the god of your tradition..while attempting to make it so that others are doing this??? This is confusion...after the god of confusion.
For Believers never have to pose the questions you have asked here.

It's just confusing to you because apparently you exist in this little bubble of think-alike people being fed a lot of misinformation.
I already mentioned this, but just going on Wikipedia and looking up these topics will show how far off these claims are that you are repeating here.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: orangetom1999

The Talmud is known to be of oral tradition long before it was written down going back to Babylon and before..

No, it is not "known" to be from "before".
That was the Mishmash, that the Talmud talks about.
Jews were still living in Baghdad up to the time of W. Bush's war on Iraq.
It is recognized by linguists that an oral tradition can't be over three hundred years old because it isn't possible to maintain it intact longer without writing it down
The Mishnah was not written down until 200 AD, after the New Testament was written.

This type of oral Talmudic practice was around long before a Septuagint.

Maybe there was a practice of oral sayings, which all cultures had.
That does not mean that when they did write it down, the actual subject matter itself was the same as it was 500 years earlier.
Your problem is that you are being propagandized by the cult that you belong to, that seems to want to discredit the Greek language, which is built into "King James Only" ideology.

Give me the name of the god of your tradition..while attempting to make it so that others are doing this??? This is confusion...after the god of confusion.
For Believers never have to pose the questions you have asked here.

It's just confusing to you because apparently you exist in this little bubble of think-alike people being fed a lot of misinformation.
I already mentioned this, but just going on Wikipedia and looking up these topics will show how far off these claims are that you are repeating here.

Now apply the underlined to Our Lord and the New Covenant. His teachings have not changed. Reading the Early Church Father's quotes, some who knew the Apostles is one of the greatest helps to discover the Truth.

Personal judgment on the written Word, the Bible's meaning is full of error. NO God given authority to interpret and you can misinterpret the meaning of the Bible by isolating a verse, taking Scripture out of context. It is a good idea to read what the Church Father's believed. A help...

If you can accept Jesus' presence in the Eucharist, this is the summit of the Faith, all the rest will make sense.

Church Father's on the most Holy Eucharist:


www.therealpresence.org...

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: colbe
a reply to: nenothtu


nenothtu,
You know I would "show up here." I love you, I love, I love you! To read your words:


"Now, if as you say at some point God asks me personally, then I'll consider it. Not until then. As of right now,God absolutely does not want me to become Catholic."


This is what I wish and pray for, God sends the grace. Oh this marvelous day coming, Revelation 6:17 calls it a "great day." God is going to try (free will) and convince everyone on the earth.

Colbe, you already know that I'm a bit of a strange bird when it comes to nearly everything I believe, and the concept of "free will" is no exception. What I believe concerning "free will" is really pretty involved, but the basics are that I believe free will as applied to mortals and their relations with God to be limited. In other words, I believe one can "kick against the goad" for as long as one likes, that one can run from God as hard as one wants to, but in the end will only find that one has run in a complete circle, right back to where God wanted you to be in the first place.

As they used to say in sniper circles, "you can run, but you'll only die tired". Some things are inevitable, impossible to escape.

I believe this because I think it illogical to think that I, as a mere mortal, can ever thwart the will of a God. What God wills will prevail. Although we can try to escape "heaven" for as long and as hard as we like, in the end God wins, and we will be wherever God wants us to be.

Told you I believe strange things - but then you already knew that, eh?

This is definitely your opinion. I am with you on this though, ATS must think I believe a lot of strange things. And not to argue or sound like I am the wise one.

No way is it ever "God wins and we will be wherever God wants us to be."

Do you care for someone who is pretending or forcing you? No. God's gift of "free will" is always a factor, there for our choices. God wants our love just like we do, to be true.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Can you go over one more time your views on Melchizedek and the priesthood and how that fits in with Jesus etc? I think I am missing something in this area, or not really understanding it I think. Melchizedek verses the Aaron priesthood is loosing me a bit...

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I think I am missing something in this area, . . .

Don't feel alone in that because everyone has a problem with it.
Despite what some people say, the Bible does not always explain itself.
The reason for that is that the (as I mentioned earlier on this thread) writers of the New Testament took into account a wider range of writings than are in the canonical Old Testament.
For example, in 2 Corinthians, Paul said that Satan came as an angel of light to deceive the inhabitants of the Garden of Eden, even though there is no such mention in Genesis.
The story is in another book that was written later but was widely read in Paul's time.
So when the writer of Hebrews says that Melchizedek is,
"Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God" ,
he is using a source other than Genesis.
I made the calculation 30 years ago, adding the ages of the men in line from Adam, of how old they were when their first son was born, to figure out that Shem was alive when Abraham went to Salem and met with Melchizedek.
Supposedly, the Book of Jubilees says that Melchizedek was Shem, though I haven't read that for myself from the actual book.

Although Melchizedek is the first person in the Torah to be titled a Kohen (priest), the medrash records that he was preceded in priesthood (kehuna) by Adam. Rabbinic commentarians to the Torah explain that Melchizedek — essentially Shem — was given the priesthood (Hebrew; kehuna) by receipt of his father Noah's blessing "G-d beatified Yefeth and will dwell in the house of Shem"; i.e., he will merit to serve and host God as a Kohen.
en.wikipedia.org...

The idea, as I see it, is that in Genesis, people lived to be very old, and that included Shem since he was born before the flood, after which, people's lives were shortened.
So Shem would have outlived several generations of post-flood people, thus making him, to them, seem like a god.
They would not have known his parents because he would have just been there, then these people basically gathering about him as an already existing thing, as if he was a part of that place, Salem.

Hebrews is supposedly a letter and it was written to specific people who the author knew personally and they were prominent Jewish Christians who we forced to leave Rome as a result of one of the purges of Jews from the city, so were forced to go back, at least temporarily until the ban was rescinded, to Jewish territory, where the influence of being in that culture, plus the discouragement of having their ministry put to naught in Rome, led them to the point of considering going back to their old religious ways.
The writer is giving encouragement to stay with Christianity because to fail that was taking a step backwards due to the religion of Christ being superior based on the superiority of Christ himself, over the old temple priesthood.
So here the writer is taking the legendary claims of Melchizedek that were at the time generally known and accepted, and linking them to the verse, Psalm 110:4, where it seems to reinforce those beliefs, and makes a promise that from the Lord to "my Lord", of being as Melchizedek, "forever".
Jesus quoted from that chapter (of Psalms), in John, where he asks the teachers of the Jews, who was this talking to, "The Lord says to my lord"?
Hebrews is making a commentary to explain that Jesus, though not being in the Aaronic line of priesthood, could claim the messianic promise of a better priesthood, which was of the type that Melchizedek had, which was to this writer, a permanent type, and thus actually superior.
He goes on to say in this commentary, that Melchizedek was able to bless Levi (the ancestor of all the priests of the order from Aaron) through that one meeting with Abraham (the ancestor of Levi).
That ability translates to how Jesus could bless all of us by one act that he did long ago before any of us were born.
The thing to take away from all of this, is that Hebrews is saying a lot of things, not as a legalistic justification of a capacity that Jesus has taken the role of, but as a metaphorical explanation of how much better Jesus is, and following him, than going back to the temple and handing over to the priests there, offerings (hopefully) to God.

originally posted by: Pimpintology
Man decided Jesus was God but man does not have the power to make Jesus God. I do not agree with those who say Jesus is God. I am a servant of God not his son. This did not happen until the council of Nicaea. Where as I stated man determined Jesus was God.

No where in the Bible does it say Jesus is God. In fact it separates them by name. It is clearly written he was the son not the father. Although you will never change anyone's mind on this. I however will not worship false idols.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" ~ John 1:1

I am curious, what is your source?

What do you study?

Who do you listen to?

It is VERY easy to be deceived by false doctrine.

His very actions say that He WAS in fact God...

ALL physical reality came into existence through Jesus...

...in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. ~ Heb. 1:2

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. ~ 1 Corinthians 8:6

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ ~ Ephesians 3:9

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ~ Colossians 1:16-17

originally posted by: jmdewey60
The problem with the Catholic Church is they have no disclaimer, believing that it actually is the sole holder of the power to have people either go to heaven or hell at its discretion.

One of the signs of being in a cult is accusing everyone else of being in a cult...

History has shown that cults will ALWAYS lie to you and the SDA is no exception.

Cult members like to reassure themselves in collective self-delusion that they are superior, even denouncing other groups as being cults and/or congratulating themselves on being the true path, being rational and objective and even trumpeting their own non-cultism!

Characteristics of Cults

Counterfeit Christian churches often make it a point to cast doubt and suspicion on other churches or denominations, with the leader oftentimes claiming that only his church is true. While many groups hold that the Christian churches do have partial truth, it is taught that full truth has somehow been lost and can now only be found in the "one true church."

8 Characteristics of a Counterfeit Christian Church

There is a third group of people who seem well informed, but they ignore the Bible, change it’s message, or add their own beliefs to the Bible’s message. Although these groups may accuse others of being cults or false religions, these groups are actually the cults themselves.

What is a Cult?

The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God’s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".

Is Seventh-day Adventism a cult?

The second characteristic is an elitist mentality. Most cults believe they are the true church and the only ones who will be saved. This is because the group believes they have new revelation or understanding that gives them superior standing.

Character of the Cults

One of the highly objectionable features of the SDA’s is their bitter hostility towards all other churches. Their theory is that all churches but their own were utterly rejected of God in 1844 for not embracing Miller's doctrine. White says it is the devil who answers their prayers: "I saw them look up to the throne and pray, Father give us thy spirit; Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence." (Early Writings, p.47). All intelligent people know that such statements are a misrepresentation of the evangelical churches today. Elder White says: Other churches are "now the synagogue of Satan." (Present Truth, April, 1850).

Their Hostility to All Other Churches

Seventh-day Adventists believe they are the only true church on earth. At their world wide General Conference in 2000 they passed a resolution affirming this belief. This is very important for them to believe. They refer to other Christians as either “apostate Protestant”, “Babylon”, “Sunday keepers”, or as sheep that have not yet come into the fold. They believe everyone who will be saved in the final days before Jesus returns will be a Seventh-day Adventist.

www.exadventist.com...

They teach that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the only ‘true church,’ ‘the remnant church of Bible prophecy.’ (This spirit of exclusivity rules ALL cults, and rejects even sincerely born again believers, who do not belong to their church! The truth of Scripture states that Jesus Christ ‘has redeemed,’ [past tense, as He finished His atoning work on the cross,] His sincere body of believers ‘out of every tribe and tongue and nation… – Rev. 5:9) They think everyone else is wrong and that they know the only true way... this is the definition of a cult.

The Spirit of Exclusivity

NOTICE HOW THE SDAs HIDE WHO THEY ARE. THIS WEB SITE LOOKS GOOD, BUT IT IS A MASTERFUL SUBTERFUGE. THE ATTACK OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOVEL WITH SDAs BECAUSE THEY MADE LITTLE FUSS OVER THEM IN THE PAST. THE STRATEGY IS TO DRAW THE BIBLE BELIEVING FUNDAMENTALIST INTO THE ATTACK ON THE CATHOLICS, THEN TRY TO IMPLY THAT WHERE BIBLE BELIEVERS COINCIDE WITH CATHOLICS, SUCH AS SUNDAY WORSHIP, THE FUNDAMENTALIST IS BY ASSOCIATION A HERETIC. THIS IS DECEPTIVE AND FRAUDULENT LOGIC.

Seventh Day Adventist Cult

SDA's often make every effort to appear "evangelical", joining in with inter-ministry groups and trying to "blend in" with the Christian community. However, make no mistake about it, they believe they are exclusively correct because they recognize and follow Ellen G. White. Among themselves, they mock the Christian's beliefs, calling our concept of salvation, "cheap grace". They privately consider themselves to be spiritually superior to the rest of us.

Facts Adventists Won’t Tell

a reply to: Murgatroid

It's funny, every single "religion" has the attributes of a cult. It only doesn't become a cult anymore in popular thought when adhering to it becomes more widespread - but a large cult is still a cult - by definition.

So running around calling one another followers of "cults" is strange, since all adherents to any particular brand of religion are in a cult, therefore, one cult calling another cult a cult and vice versa is based on biased ignorance, in my honest opinon.

Why not delve into actual facts based on the known texts, and discuss the beliefs themselves, and where they are derived from....

This is why someone like me, is more interested to hear from someone like jmdewey60, because he is discussing the texts. If you could follow suit I'm sure you would. Perhaps calling someone as belonging to a "cult" is what one does when they cannot discuss the texts?

Well Christ is God even in the gnosis. Its like another Face of the Infinite Tao, Father/Mother/Son, and we are all parts of the Divine as well, infinite parts of infinity. If you were to go, Higher Self, then another level up in growth and development, another Beyond, Higher Self's Higher Self, and so forth and so on, (think infinite fractals if you will, or branches to a never ending, tree, but infinity really has multi trees, or fractals, then but always joined up in a kind of diverse Tao Spirit, that really can't be envisioned as 1, and yet I picture a mystery, a diverse 1 that still is Mom/Dad).

Well Christ is still God, though I don't necessarily believe he became a human, except in the branch forms, ie us. So Christ is Higher Self or Higher Self's Higher Self but we're still all people, individuals, and Christ is a person, individual, as different than I or you, yet we have a oneness, a unity, if like minded. But if one is really thinking of the Active/Proactive element of Spirit that intercedes with humanity and creates or codes reality, not the hijackers or hackers to the digital world, using digital metaphor here, then we're talking about a Primary Element of the Tao/Spirit/Consciousness/God, a main element. Not sure if that is the same concept as a person here in the world in tests, unless Christ is being thought of as the original Adam, the Forfather of the human race. He could become a human.

The point is, what is in the bible in a fundamental little version isn't real and is only touching on larger gnostic issues and even philosophies.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
Why not delve into actual facts based on the known texts, and discuss the beliefs themselves, and where they are derived from....

Sometimes our actions can be more important than our words.

Damnable doctrines need to be exposed for the false teachings that they are.

A lot of things that Satan says are accurate according to scripture as well.

Remember how he tried to persuade Jesus to throw himself down from the temple roof?

He argued from Scripture.

Do not believe everyone who can quote you a text.

History is strewn with cults who twisted the Scriptures, but without faith it's useless.

When people quote scriptures with out being led by the Holy Spirit they produce death not life.

The Pharisees and Sadducees also used the scriptures to bring death.

"Religion" does NOT agree with God.

the Bible is called the dead letter when it is not brought to life by the Holy Spirit. "The letter killeth" 2 Corinthians 3:6

God reveals through the Bible, but so does Satan. Satan speaks through the Bible. Most cults use the Bible. There would be no denomination if it were not for the fact that Satan speaks through the Bible. Satan quoted the Bible when tempting Jesus. Satan will quote the Bible when tempting you.

Those who truly desire to do the will of God will not be fooled. Christ's sheep know His voice. Those who think that Christ does not speak are not His sheep. In fact, faith comes by the utterance of God. Those who have a faith that is not by the utterance of God do not have the faith of God. They have a manufactured false pseudo-faith.

Being Fed by the Bible

So unless a person hears God’s voice and senses His Spirit when receiving the words from God, there is no rhema, there is no faith, there is no life, and there will be no good fruit produced. In fact when people quote scriptures with out being led by the Holy Spirit they produce death not life. Remember even Satan can quote scriptures, Mat. 4:6. People in the New Age movement quote scriptures, Muslims accept some scriptures, and many cults will use some scriptures from the Bible, but there is no true faith produced when they quote the Bible. Because of the blood that Jesus Christ shed on the cross He made available to us a new covenant between God and man, a new relationship. Everything about the new covenant has to do with the Spirit, not the law.

The Pharisees and Sadducees used the scriptures to bring death, as do some religious leaders today, but when Jesus quoted scriptures it brought life. Jesus says “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63) Too many pastors and Bible teachers are bringing death to people instead of life by speaking un-anointed words, that is words that the Holy Spirit has not led them to speak.

Too many people are teaching the written word without teaching the Spirit, which is how to hear God’s voice in you, the Holy Spirit. "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. (Mat 12:35-36) Idle words are dead words that do not carry the anointing of the Holy Spirit, which means that they do not carry God’s voice and His spirit to penetrate the heart of the hearer bringing life and faith.

Spirit Led Faith: Hearing God's Voice