Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

a reply to: intrepid

It is. Research. It also has to do with incompatibilities with currency systems. Islamic law, as flawed as it is, has one thing right. It does not allow for usury (Rent for Money).

a reply to: BobAthome

What are you trying to portray with these images? how photography has progress from black and white to color?.
What you have shown does not promote the idea that Israel have earned the land by building it up from nothing. You could make similar comparisons throughout the world between 1920s and today. Obviously the world has progressed a lot and there is nothing more impressive than a few sky scrapers.

See what happens anywhere if you go fix up a piece of land and claim it as your own. You will be out on your arse and labelled nothing but a squatter. War sells the media, War runs the economy and War controls the people everything else is just a path towards or a by-product of it. So are you happy we have the luxury of having a debate about this from the safety of your home, rather than picking through the rubble to find death.

I am sure you are happy to be far away from their reality as I think that your would see it bad for YOUR neighbourhood.

Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

I guess that's like saying the native Indians were the problem when the settlers first moved to America.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD

Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

I guess that's like saying the native Indians were the problem when the settlers first moved to America.

Well....YEAH. Kinda looking at the same solution too.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: intrepid

That area has not always been referred to as Palestine. There is no nation known as Palestine, no true Palestinian people.

Call them displaced arabs, most likely Jordanians.

Every lie of Zionist state manifested right there.
So these cities the IDF bombed in 1948..chopped liver then?

sigh...really..you'd think ppl would do some simple research before regurgitating bull#.

you got the words in the wrong order. Israel is the problem. the actions of the Israeli war machine are an insult to humanity. only subhumans can attempt to defend it.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

I would love to know the actual numbers. The problem is, the final tally keeps changing to the lower side. Yet.. the claims go higher and higher. I see this as a problem. Someone is lying. Who and why? I did want to thank you for verifying that according to your view, Palestinians do NOT have a right to self determination in the "West Bank", and "Gaza" as mandated by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Article 1 for starters). The only Citizens in your eyes, are Israeli Citizens.

They do have the ability to choose non-violence against civilians though, yet they don't. As long as Hamas continues to attack civilians, there will be no peace. Israel has been able to work with and make progress with the PA in the West Bank.

In my discussions with you, here is what I learned: Palestine is the worlds biggest 21st century concentration camp, with not the same rights as you. Questioning historical validity, is not permissible and will be met with threats. Only Israeli Citizens, have rights. On the surface, I see an incredible amount of tribal racism that needs resolution before this dissolves into a really nasty war.

Hardly a concentration camp - In Gaza there are cars, 5 star restaurants, luxury hotels, internet service, cell phones, and until some Islamist extremists destroyed it, a water park. I don't deny that it is not a great situation for many Palestinians, but to call it a concentration camp is disingenuous and likely offensive to anyone who has spent time in an actual concentration camp.

In Israel, yes, only Israeli citizens have full rights in that country, as it is in most countries - I'm not a citizen (so it's not my country or government...), I'm just here for work and as I said before (And you seemed to gloss over), there are Palestinians living in Israel that have more rights than me. With that being said, there are problems on both sides and it is a very complicated issue with no simple solution. A big first step for the Palestinians would be to swear off all violence against civilians. If that happened, there would a a lot more calm in the region and a good first step toward working for peace.
But Hamas doesn't want that - they just want to kill as many Jews as possible.

And you wonder why I doubt? If this is how you truly feel, and if this is how Israel is going to act like this towards other human beings, it really is time to have full public debate as to their actions, and re-evaluate the relationship between our nations. As far as I am concerned, I will no longer support any of your governments actions. We don't need our relationship with you to stain our soul any further.

Not my government, I'm an American... And I don't support everything Israel does either.

originally posted by: CommandoJoe
Hardly a concentration camp - In Gaza there are cars, 5 star restaurants, luxury hotels, internet service, cell phones....

Awesome. Just curious. Do those blow up just as well as other things that Israeli attack missiles hit?

a reply to: Jesuslives4u
I feel that like so many people on this plant, you lack basic reasoning skills. I thought you might when you started name calling, then you showed me. By definition, Israel is the terrorist organization.

originally posted by: earthdude
By definition, Israel is the terrorist organization.

Not in my opinion. The Israeli GOV'T is a terrorist organization. Don't diss the people dude. That crap isn't their call.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: Mr Mask

Really, I said all that. Well, I'll be.

Yes, you are delusional if you believe in palestine or that they have been the only "victims" here. Most prestigious podiums you say. I guess that makes them there smart, dern't it.

You call those brave who disagree with me? I call all of you cowards for not applying critical thinking to this issue. Remind me of democrats who, when faced with cold hard facts, scream at the top of their lungs trying to shout everyone else down so as to be the only person heard in the room. Sickening really.

The so-called people from a so-called place named palestine would be better off to go back to the countries they came from...namely Jordan and Syria.

Go ahead ATS....gang up on me, hate me, call me delusional, but in the end I know how this will turn out. YOU ALL LOSE.

You are right....we do all lose as we allow this farce to continue unchallenged and you are right..the Jewish population of Palestine has indeed been made victim once again - but not by Palestinians or Hamas or any other nation or group, by zionists themselves, zionists, those same people who abandoned their grandparents to the gas chambers.

Before Zionist bombing of Palestinian cities in 1948, many Jewish communities existed peacefully in Palestine along side Christian and Muslim communities. Zionists ended that relationship in their attacks and brutal dispersal of the Palestinian society. The zionists are Israels true oppressors and the true villains in this equation. Israel need only look in the mirror for both problem and solution.

Zionists have corrupted generations and have collared Israels Jewry to a cause and path that was never intended for them, a path that was simply unnecessary and is as wrong as it is devoid of Spirit. As a result, Israel, has lost its way and lost its soul. By its actions, Israel has already 'lost' this conflict too. In the end you will see undeniably as we do, that Israel has lost far more than Palestinians ever have and ever will.

As the mother, so the daughter.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Oh really. Are you talking about taking away another human beings rights with another?

You said "my rights" in your last post. Now, you are an American Citizen?

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

What about my protected rights being domiciled here? Did you forget about equal protection?

Do you discuss repudiating the rights of opinions by non-jewish American's who do not agree, with others? Like, say, agreeing in principal to threaten them with laws that do not apply to them when questioning historical accuracy, even though freedom of speech is a known Constitutional Right? How about conspiring to prevent me, or others, forming my own opinion as to all the information on the internet? We're not allowed? Says who? That is against the law here.

If so, you and whomever else you agreed to do this with, are in violation of United States law sir. Title 18 USC 241 - Conspiracy to take away rights. Please see Title 42 USC 1983, 1985-1986. Article 6 US Constitution, Signed Treaty in Force, International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights. Preamble (freedom from fear), Articles 18, 19.

Want to play?

a reply to: intrepid
You are correct, Sadly, when religion is combined with government like in Israel, you can't put one down without the other getting angry with you. So the government has the highest approval rating by its citizens in the world. Very few Jews support Palestine.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: earthdude
By definition, Israel is the terrorist organization.

Not in my opinion. The Israeli GOV'T is a terrorist organization. Don't diss the people dude. That crap isn't their call.

Don't diss the people, but it's ok to try and kill them?

That was precisely the point I was trying to make, if they have a problem with the Israeli government then attack military targets, not the civilians. Then you say basically the same thing, but only when applied to labeling, if it's violence, then fire away...

Wow

a reply to: CommandoJoe

I can see both sides. That way I don't look incredibly stupid. I recommend the same.

Yes, it's clear that Palestine is the problem because israel is in Palestine. Those naughty Palestinians! How dare they be angry that a whole people is now laying claim to their homeland.

How dare they.

a reply to: intrepid

as do I.

however, i also feel others have a valid point in mentioning/stating that if Hamas or Palestinians have an issue with Israel, that it's with the governemnt, the IDF, etc..... not with the individual citizenry.

Then why aren't they targeting the military,.gov installations the like, IDF , as well..... instead just volleying missiles all willy nilly into civilian/residential areas.

???


personaly, i think the reason they don't target .gov or .mil locations is that they Simple Can't .... so instead they fall back no firing dozens of rockets into who the hell knows where. they sure doen't. areas and 'hope for the best', with regards damage and outcome.

i'd, personally, have more and issue with Israel's handling of the situation if they were targeting strikes upon encampments or sites that targeted .mil or .gov locations.

as it is....


if i live in an apartment complex or community/subdivision of homes, and I have to worry about some 'nutters' across the border firing rockets all willy nilly into my neighborhood every day/night...


that's a whole different ballgame.


!!!!!

game on.

it's a no-win situation no matter how much or even How it's discussed until more intelligent minds prevail, imho.


????

originally posted by: 12m8keall2c
Then why aren't they targeting the military,.gov installations the like, IDF , as well..... instead just volleying missiles all willy nilly into civilian/residential areas.

Because they can't. Their weapons are little more than what you and I made back in the 70's out of cans and gunpowder. Remember those?

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Oh really. Are you talking about taking away another human beings rights with another? Ie, are Palestinians human? Are they? Time to answer hard questions.

You said "my rights" in your last post. Now, you are an American Citizen?

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

What about my protected rights being domiciled here? Equal protection.

Do you discuss repudiating the rights of opinions by non-jewish American's who do not agree? Like, say, agreeing in principal to threaten them with laws that do not apply to them when questioning historical accuracy, even though this a known Constitutional Right? How about me, or others, forming my own opinion as to all the information on the internet?

If so, you and whomever else you agreed to do this with, are in violation of United States law sir. Title 18 USC 241 - Conspiracy to take away rights. Please see Title 42 USC 1983, 1985-1986. Article 6 US Constitution, Signed Treaty in Force, International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights. Preamble (freedom from fear), Articles 18, 19.

Want to play?

You seem to keep ignoring this

originally posted by: CommandoJoe
With that being said, there are problems on both sides and it is a very complicated issue with no simple solution.

And I don't support everything Israel does either.

I am not trying to take away anyone's rights - the situation of the Palestinians is what it is. Not good for sure. I have my opinion on things that might make it better - primarily to stop using violence against civilians in Israel. As to your question if Palestinians are human - The only response I'll give on that is that it is a stupid and ridiculous question.

If Palestinians wan't all the same rights as Israeli citizens, then they need to learn how to coexist. The Palestinians living in Israel (20% of the population) has figured this out... I'm sure there are many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza that can do this and would have love the opportunity, but their leadership is part of the problem. Also, Israel is skeptical because they have suffered many deaths in the past and now they are doing everything they can to prevent more Israeli deaths. The cost of this heavy handed approach is that unfortunately many Palestinians mistreated because of the few that want to cause harm to Israel. How to you screen out the ones that can't/won't coexist? Again, not a simple solution...

With respect to your denial/questioning of the Holocaust, I never threatened you with anything, I merely stated it was a crime in some places and I think it is a sad and offensive position to take. But you're entitled to your opinion - I believe in free speech, even if it is stupid.

I think a lot of what would have simply been called 'resistance' is now labeled as terrorism. I see Israel as the more powerful invading group and Palestine putting up resistance.

The allies attacked civilian targets during the 2nd world war as well.