Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: 12m8keall2c

The fact still remains that if we (the west) had left well enough alone we'd all be better off. That's about as nice as I can be about this. WE f'd it up. and WE are all paying for it.

wouldn't argue that in any way shape or form.

we, the west, per se, brought this, as well as many other cultural conflicts, upon ourselves.

our probelm is that we do the sdame and then walk away in the name of 'spreading democracy', often times.


what a load of b.s. that near always turn out to be.

yeah. we do and SHOULD have a fair stake/say in how it all plays out....

we got our nose, m.i.c., senor officials and all right up both their asses

why would we seem/feel a vested interest, ?
we supply both. covertly or otherwise.


just not so lopsided towards the Israelis, imho.

fault, on the other hand, abounds on BOTH sides!!

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Hamas and other terrorist are cowards and the Palestine government will not expel these criminals better yet put them in jail for life for terrorism.

Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza. If you apply the same things to Israel then the Israeli government is cowards and should be put in jail for terrorism.

They fire their rockets from within civilian neighborhoods at which point the Israelis can pin point exactly from where their rockets were fired from and then they return fire.

Why doesn't Israel back this up with proof? Whenever they bomb a school, hospital or apartment complex they say Hamas was using it to launch rockets but they never show any of the wreckage from the launch platform. Seeing how Israel has admitted to targeting civilians makes the part of the debate moot.

If the Palestine government removed HAMAS and the other terrorist organizations from the Gaza strip the fighting would cease and possibly there would be a chance for peace.

If you believe this then you are living in a dreamland. Israel wants all of Palestine's land because they want to reclaim their "biblical homeland".

When Israel and its people moved back they found the land given to them filthy, the waters were infested and the land was barren.

The Zionist chose the most fertile land to steal. How did they know it was fertile? Because it was being farmed.

You finish your thread off by talking about both but from beginning to end you do nothing but blame Palestine. How can you overlook the numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Israel? You say nothing about the Israeli settlers that use Palestinians for target practice. like when they shot a little girl in the head while she was walking to school even though they had an escort by the IDF the IDF stood by and did nothing they let the Settler just walk off. The Israeli government stands by and does next to nothing about them even when these settlers attack the IDF they still do nothing. Maybe you should do a little more research about the people you aren't talking about you will see they are far worse than Hamas.

israel are terrorists and hamas is good.

israel is a thief and a genocidal maniac.

poor palestinians in prison and dying at unprecedented rates, not seen since the OT.

now can i has my 25 stars for this post?

the pali's are the problem since their duly elected government is run by a known/declared terror group.

a reply to: 12m8keall2c

how is the west to 'fix' an age olde, since the sands of time issue between two peoples.

That's just it this isn't an ages old conflict. In fact during the middle ages Jews and Muslims got along quite well with each other because the Jews looked to the Muslims for protection from the Christians. The problem between the Jews and Muslims started when modern day Zionism started.

originally posted by: jheated5

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: jheated5
Yeah Palestine is the problem because they're in the way of the Israeli settlers who want to build condos on their gravestones... Those women and children terrorists that have killed 0 Israelis with all those rockets are the problem too!

Hi,

Actually I think both sides are wrong. Like I stated in my original post - Hamas and other terrorist fire their rockets in "safe neighborhoods" and then run - leaving the innocent people within that neighborhood to pay the ultimate price. To me this a coward.

What is the ultimate price they are paying exactly? Street cleaner fees? I doubt Hamas would have ever been elected if the Israeli's never encroached on their land. They don't have a standing army, airforce, or navy... How exactly are they supposed to defend themselves from invaders?

don't they have any friends to help?

pretty amazing that a country in this world today has no friends to help.

that's sad.

If the romans would had left the jews/hebrews in the land to begin with maybe we would not have this issue going on right now.The romans started the entire debacle way back when because the romans were to darn lazy to do anything themselves that they could dictate to the slaves.

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Hamas and other terrorist are cowards and the Palestine government will not expel these criminals better yet put them in jail for life for terrorism.

Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza. If you apply the same things to Israel then the Israeli government is cowards and should be put in jail for terrorism.

They fire their rockets from within civilian neighborhoods at which point the Israelis can pin point exactly from where their rockets were fired from and then they return fire.

Why doesn't Israel back this up with proof? Whenever they bomb a school, hospital or apartment complex they say Hamas was using it to launch rockets but they never show any of the wreckage from the launch platform. Seeing how Israel has admitted to targeting civilians makes the part of the debate moot.

If the Palestine government removed HAMAS and the other terrorist organizations from the Gaza strip the fighting would cease and possibly there would be a chance for peace.

If you believe this then you are living in a dreamland. Israel wants all of Palestine's land because they want to reclaim their "biblical homeland".

When Israel and its people moved back they found the land given to them filthy, the waters were infested and the land was barren.

The Zionist chose the most fertile land to steal. How did they know it was fertile? Because it was being farmed.

You finish your thread off by talking about both but from beginning to end you do nothing but blame Palestine. How can you overlook the numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Israel? You say nothing about the Israeli settlers that use Palestinians for target practice. like when they shot a little girl in the head while she was walking to school even though they had an escort by the IDF the IDF stood by and did nothing they let the Settler just walk off. The Israeli government stands by and does next to nothing about them even when these settlers attack the IDF they still do nothing. Maybe you should do a little more research about the people you aren't talking about you will see they are far worse than Hamas.

israel are terrorists and hamas is good.

israel is a thief and a genocidal maniac.

poor palestinians in prison and dying at unprecedented rates, not seen since the OT.

now can i has my 25 stars for this post?

the pali's are the problem since their duly elected government is run by a known/declared terror group.

Does the truth get your knickers in a wad? Also the whole world does not look at Hamas as a terrorist group. Norway, Russia, Turkey, UK and China does not view Hamas as a terrorist organization. But you are right how dare those savages try to keep their homes and land from being stolen from them by the Chosen ones.

You clearly could only have this view if you are "anti-Palestinian." There would be no other reason possible.... Lol, just giving you a hard time. I'm actually displaying how ridiculous the too frequently used Anti-Semitism card is.

You have the right to your viewpoint.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u
I hope that I have put this thread into the correct forum - if not MODS please move to where it belongs!

Now before you get your panties in a twist let me explain. I do not take side with Palestine or with Israel but I have been watching the attacks from both sides for years. In this most recent skirmish over 100 deaths in Palestine and counting why? Hamas and other terrorist are cowards and the Palestine government will not expel these criminals better yet put them in jail for life for terrorism. They fire their rockets from within civilian neighborhoods at which point the Israelis can pin point exactly from where their rockets were fired from and then they return fire. In the meantime these cowards run away leaving the civilians defenseless and who by the way are innocent.

So who is at fault? Simple the terrorists. If the Palestine government removed HAMAS and the other terrorist organizations from the Gaza strip the fighting would cease and possibly there would be a chance for peace. But Palestine does not want that do they?

Many of us were not around when the U.N. granted Israel its statehood back in 1948. Do you know how Palestine looked in 1948? Why don't you research it. When Israel and its people moved back they found the land given to them filthy, the waters were infested and the land was barren. The Palestine government found it funny and laughed and made jokes until after a few years of hard work and sweat from the Israelites the waters cleaned up and the land became fruitful once again. Once the Palestines saw this they wanted the land back. Does this sound right to you?

I understand the Palestine/Israel is both a political and religious issue that will never be solved. The hate will always be there. It breaks my heart to see the suffering going on over there ONLY if the people (on both sides) would take matters in their own hands and drag all the politicians and religious leaders outside and make an "example" of them but again neither side would agree to this.

Palestine knows Israel has a great advantage over them but their pride will not let them see clearly.

What are your feelings on this?

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Now that I've slept on this, these laws are akin to laws enforcing the Spanish inquisition. Believe in the Catholic church, or die. Questions, even about simply verifying history, is thought crime now? Totalitarianism? That is your goal?

Besides, lets focus back on today?

Do Palestinians have rights? Do you consider them human? Do they have equal protection under the law? Any answer but yes, is unacceptable. Failure to answer, is by default, no.

I think my nation's relationship with Israel, needs serious pause and reconsideration. Actions as of late by your government, clearly demonstrates Israel doest have my nation's, or humanity's interests in mind. Our nation's people are not on the same page.

If you wish the American people to remain your ally, answers, not accusations, are required.

what rights?
and
who's laws?

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I think a majority of the problems we see today stem from the 1948 UN decision. What gave the UN the right to declare that land property of the Israelis and take it from the people that occupied it?

It doesn't matter what shape the area was in, it belonged to the Palestinians. So I can see why they might be a bit upset.

Palestine was part of the mandate of Palestine after 1917 (it was previously ruled by the Turks). In 1921 75% of Palestine was given to an Arabian family and Jews were banned from living! owning land or settling there (Jordan) this is still the case. I don't see you complaining about this?

Of the remaining 20-25% of the land Jews were given about half by the UN eg 10% of the Palestine mandate. Even this was too much got the Arabs who attacked, lost and lost some land.

Even today 20% of Israel is Palestinian while no Jew is allowed to live in Jordan or Gaza. Those living in the West Bank are dubbed "settlers".

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Hamas and other terrorist are cowards and the Palestine government will not expel these criminals better yet put them in jail for life for terrorism.

Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza. If you apply the same things to Israel then the Israeli government is cowards and should be put in jail for terrorism.

They fire their rockets from within civilian neighborhoods at which point the Israelis can pin point exactly from where their rockets were fired from and then they return fire.

Why doesn't Israel back this up with proof? Whenever they bomb a school, hospital or apartment complex they say Hamas was using it to launch rockets but they never show any of the wreckage from the launch platform. Seeing how Israel has admitted to targeting civilians makes the part of the debate moot.

If the Palestine government removed HAMAS and the other terrorist organizations from the Gaza strip the fighting would cease and possibly there would be a chance for peace.

If you believe this then you are living in a dreamland. Israel wants all of Palestine's land because they want to reclaim their "biblical homeland".

When Israel and its people moved back they found the land given to them filthy, the waters were infested and the land was barren.

The Zionist chose the most fertile land to steal. How did they know it was fertile? Because it was being farmed.

You finish your thread off by talking about both but from beginning to end you do nothing but blame Palestine. How can you overlook the numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Israel? You say nothing about the Israeli settlers that use Palestinians for target practice. like when they shot a little girl in the head while she was walking to school even though they had an escort by the IDF the IDF stood by and did nothing they let the Settler just walk off. The Israeli government stands by and does next to nothing about them even when these settlers attack the IDF they still do nothing. Maybe you should do a little more research about the people you aren't talking about you will see they are far worse than Hamas.

israel are terrorists and hamas is good.

israel is a thief and a genocidal maniac.

poor palestinians in prison and dying at unprecedented rates, not seen since the OT.

now can i has my 25 stars for this post?

the pali's are the problem since their duly elected government is run by a known/declared terror group.

Does the truth get your knickers in a wad? Also the whole world does not look at Hamas as a terrorist group. Norway, Russia, Turkey, UK and China does not view Hamas as a terrorist organization. But you are right how dare those savages try to keep their homes and land from being stolen from them by the Chosen ones.

The UK does deem Hamas a terrorist organisation.

Calling Jews "chosen ones," speaks volumes about your agenda.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Hamas and other terrorist are cowards and the Palestine government will not expel these criminals better yet put them in jail for life for terrorism.

Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza. If you apply the same things to Israel then the Israeli government is cowards and should be put in jail for terrorism.

They fire their rockets from within civilian neighborhoods at which point the Israelis can pin point exactly from where their rockets were fired from and then they return fire.

Why doesn't Israel back this up with proof? Whenever they bomb a school, hospital or apartment complex they say Hamas was using it to launch rockets but they never show any of the wreckage from the launch platform. Seeing how Israel has admitted to targeting civilians makes the part of the debate moot.

If the Palestine government removed HAMAS and the other terrorist organizations from the Gaza strip the fighting would cease and possibly there would be a chance for peace.

If you believe this then you are living in a dreamland. Israel wants all of Palestine's land because they want to reclaim their "biblical homeland".

When Israel and its people moved back they found the land given to them filthy, the waters were infested and the land was barren.

The Zionist chose the most fertile land to steal. How did they know it was fertile? Because it was being farmed.

You finish your thread off by talking about both but from beginning to end you do nothing but blame Palestine. How can you overlook the numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Israel? You say nothing about the Israeli settlers that use Palestinians for target practice. like when they shot a little girl in the head while she was walking to school even though they had an escort by the IDF the IDF stood by and did nothing they let the Settler just walk off. The Israeli government stands by and does next to nothing about them even when these settlers attack the IDF they still do nothing. Maybe you should do a little more research about the people you aren't talking about you will see they are far worse than Hamas.

israel are terrorists and hamas is good.

israel is a thief and a genocidal maniac.

poor palestinians in prison and dying at unprecedented rates, not seen since the OT.

now can i has my 25 stars for this post?

the pali's are the problem since their duly elected government is run by a known/declared terror group.

Does the truth get your knickers in a wad? Also the whole world does not look at Hamas as a terrorist group. Norway, Russia, Turkey, UK and China does not view Hamas as a terrorist organization. But you are right how dare those savages try to keep their homes and land from being stolen from them by the Chosen ones.

well, let them jump right in and help hamas, like iran does.

with such heavy duty muscle as russia and norway, i mean china, israel doesn't stand a chance, right?

any idea why they don't help squish israel?

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

I'm gonna say this again. The OP is a propagandist. Israel is a war criminal and they don't have a right to commit war crimes. Israel is a terrorist state and they are a bunch of two-faced hypocrites who cry anti-Semite whenever they get criticized for any reason.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

IIRC, Gaza is destined to end up in Israeli hands . . .

Ishmael et al will be thoroughly trashed for their attitude, arrogance and demand to exterminate Israel.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

I hope you're not expecting a rational discussion.

This is one topic that seems to be impossible for level-headed, reasonable, fact-based dialogue to occur.

It seems like a huge majority of folks simply follow the globalist propaganda and seem, in attitude, to wish to join Hammas and the Muslim Brotherhood in removing Israel off the map and all Israeli's off the planet.

Thankfully, God Almighty has a different perspective.

When THE BOSS finally weighs in, after disciplining Israel within an inch of it's life for their wandering away from HIM, it will get VERY interesting.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Oh yeah, what does God think of the modern day State of Israel?? Taking into consideration that Israel is run by Godless Law and commits actions contrary to God's laws through the Torah?

a reply to: BO XIAN

first they will remove the dome of the rock rebuild the temple satan claims the throne than when all jewish accept jesus as messiah well ok its already rather intresting by then...

So be it

originally posted by: hidn60
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

This issue stems from the Israel Government taking a pro-active approach to limiting the effective ability for the Palestinians to create a functioning country. They effectively have been able to control all trade in and out of the country and keep them from being able to improve their quality of life.

This has lead the people of Palestine to continue to develop deep seeded hate of the Israeli's.

From Israel's perspective they have always been a threat to their people and have done what was needed to protect their people from immediate threats and future threats.

The issue is not Israel or Palestine, it's the hate that these two peoples have for each other and continue to nurture.

Neither side is right or wrong, that's a bad way of approaching the issue.

Question does egypt have any responsibility as well? They built a wall and its only purpose is to make sure Palestinians dont enter egypt. Well correction more like they cant leave the arab league needs them to be there. They made a statement which i find kind of shocking.Arabs have literally created a prison and trying to make Israel have to play guards.

Hisham Youssef, spokesman for the 22-nation Arab League, acknowledged that Palestinians live 'in very bad conditions,' but he said the policy is meant 'to preserve their Palestinian identity. "If every Palestinian who sought refuge in a certain country was integrated and accommodated into that country, there won't be any reason for them to return to Palestine,"

There has never been a people known as "Palestinians" there from Lebanon,Syria and Jordan. This mess was made in two parts there was the original UN resolution than there were all the immigrants Yassar Arafat put into camps This is why many Palestinians have no land rights. Yassar Arafat was smart he shipped in lots of people even made a statement himself there is no Palestinians. His idea was simple really turn the Jewish story after WW2 alot of sympathy for jews since they were booted out of countries and scattered to the winds not to mention the holocaust. Yassar Arafat figured if he could create a story similar he could destroy Israel so he created a people.

See people dont look at what happened there GAZA was refugee camps started because Jordan started trying toget the Fahta movement out of Jordan. This is why the arab league creates the PLO in 1964. Realize Jordan libya egypt or in other words the arab league thought it was better to put Yassar Arafat on Israel than have them causing troubles in there countries. So they built walls Arafat promised people lots of money to fight and move into Palestinian territories as he called it.

Now the hard part whats the answer we cant move Israel to late for that. We cant move the palistinians no country wants them. So sharing i doubt will work to much bad blood between the two. Creating separate territories doubt that as well because even when Palestinians are given land there is still attacks. If we split it down the middle they would still fight so im thinking there is no answer.

Thank you for the systematic reply. Was looking at the post and wondering how should I reply it. But really, without any hate towards both nation, I wonder why on earth did UN granted Israel to occupy the land in Palestine?

What Palestinians are doing is a fight for survival. Man...they were annihilated on their own homeland. That isn't cool. Sometimes, the conspiracy is staring at us point blank but we chose not to read through it. Though this hostility goes waaaaay back, let's get to the recent one. From what I've read so far, the UN had proposed the partition to create 2 independent Arab and Jewish states following the termination of British Mandate. It was a pre-requisite of British withdrawal and killing off 2 birds with a stone by creating a national home for the Jews. But of course, there were inconsolable issues with disagreement over the partitioning that causes some alternatives to be executed. Over time, Palestinians have gradually lost most of their land to the Jews. It seems like, Palestinians was never given the right to their own country over the years and it had been shown by many attempts to take the words out of their mouths; The Peel Commission, Woodhead Commision, St. James Conference, MacDonald's White Paper and finally the Anglo-American Committee of inquiry. In the end, they never got their land back. And to boot, 100 000 'European' Holocaust survivors were shipped into that country. UN seemed to just decide that, it is neither a Jewish nor an Arab state but a UN Trusteeship. That's kind of bull....cause, United Nations have lost its purpose to UNITE and caused more rift over the years. The boundaries made changed over time...it is saddening. I mean, I'm from a country of multiple races, we live happily without people trying to establish turfs upon each other; well, not a written one anyway. It is a taboo to talk about it in my country; like which race contribute more to the economics and blah blah. But this...is different. This is an on paper invasion. Correct me if I'm wrong. Cause I'm reading over some of the history on this hostility. Will update on any findings. But my heart goes out for the Palestinians. I can't afford to remain impartial. This is Holocaust all over again. And the Israelites are doing it on the Palestinians. My friend who is there on an aid mission told me that it was like Armageddon has set foot in Palestine. There were not enough hospitals for the children and women and even the disabled. I kept holding back tears looking at all the photos of these people. And Israel have the gall to say that it was photoshopped. Man, the Palestinians must have so much time to do that and plan a counter measure to defend their stand. Have Israel come up with any evidence backing their claims of casualties yet? Cause I would like to know and judge it with my 2 eyes. a reply to: buster2010

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: BobAthome

i guess it is pretty clear why Hamas wants to blow it up,, it looks bad for the neighbourhood. u know after 70 years from nothing but dirt.

It also helps when you have other nations handing you billions of dollars every year. Not to mention no one is targeting your infrastructure for demolition.

You mean like the Palestinians do?

PA leaders have received more aid money per person than anyone else in history and yet the results have been remarkably unimpressive. The leaders have looted the money and used it as political pay-offs to buy patronage. By patronage I mean paying off the proportionately huge security forces that guard the PA and provide jobs for its supporters and benefits for political supporters.

LINK

Wikipedia

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip receive one of the highest levels of aid in the world.

Exactly. Also, Iran arms the to the teeth (or attempts to)

originally posted by: azalea
Thank you for the systematic reply. Was looking at the post and wondering how should I reply it. But really, without any hate towards both nation, I wonder why on earth did UN granted Israel to occupy the land in Palestine?

What Palestinians are doing is a fight for survival. Man...they were annihilated on their own homeland. That isn't cool. Sometimes, the conspiracy is staring at us point blank but we chose not to read through it. In the first place, from what I've read so far, the UN had proposed the partition to create 2 independent Arab and Jewish states following the backing the termination of British Mandate. It was a pre-requisite of British withdrawal and killing off 2 birds with a stone by creating a national home for the Jews. But of course, there were inconsolable issues with disagreement over the partitioning that causes some alternatives to be executed. Over time, Palestinians have gradually lost most of their land to the Jews. It seems like, Palestinians was never given the right to their own country over the years and it had been shown by many attempts to take the words out of their mouths; The Peel Commission, Woodhead Commision, St. James Conference, MacDonald's White Paper and finally the Anglo-American Committee of enquiry. In the end, they never got their land back. And to boot, 100 000 'European' Holocaust survivors were shipped into that country. UN seemed to just decide that, it is neither a Jewish nor an Arab state but a UN Trusteeship. That's kind of bull....cause, United Nations have lost its purpose to UNITE and caused more rift over the years. The boundaries made changed over time...it is saddening. I mean, I'm from a country of multi races, we live happily without people trying to establish turfs upon each other; well, not a written one anyway. It is a taboo to talk about it in my country; like which race contribute more to the economics and blah blah. But this...is different. This is an on paper invasion. Correct me if I'm wrong. Cause I'm reading over some of the history on this hostility. Will update on any findings. But my heart goes out for the Palestinians. I can't afford to remain impartial. This is Holocaust all over again. And the Israelites are doing it on the Palestinians. My friend who is there on an aid mission told me that it was like Armageddon has set foot in Palestine. There were not enough hospitals for the children and women and even the disabled. I kept holding back tears looking at all the photos of these people. And Israel have the gall to say that it was photoshopped. Man, the Palestinians must have so much time to do that and plan a counter measure to defend their stand. Have Israel come up with any evidence backing their claims of casualties yet? Cause I would like to know and judge it with my 2 eyes. a reply to: buster2010

This just isn't true. 75% of the British mandate of Palestine was given to the Arabs in 1921 and ruled off limits to Jews.

If the Palestinians didn't have a second state in 1947 that's their leaders fault for declining the UN plan and attacking Israel.