Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: BO XIAN

Oh yeah, what does God think of the modern day State of Israel?? Taking into consideration that Israel is run by Godless Law and commits actions contrary to God's laws through the Torah?

That could be said 10 fold for all of Israel's neighbours.

originally posted by: Anglojew

That could be said 10 fold for all of Israel's neighbours.

I agree, I think all the governments in the world are lying bulls**t artists.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

What would you do? If you 'neighbor' bulldozed your neighborhood, built houses and moved in. Sounds illegal and immoral to me. What if it happened over and over again - to everyone you knew? What if you 'neighbor' bombed your hospitals and schools, cut off your electricity and water?

Would you fight back? Or just acquiese? When you neighbor openly calls for your death and the death of all your children.

Would you call those that fight back terrorists or freedom fighters?

The whole bloody middle east 'problem' is the result of Western imperalism. It's time for the West to let the Middle East determine their own future, whatever it may be.

False and misleading maps. This is the reality;

The Palestinians are one of the fastest growing populations in earth. In the last hundred years all the deaths combined are half of the present Syrian conflict. A ridiculous accusation.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: intrepid

That area has not always been referred to as Palestine. There is no nation known as Palestine, no true Palestinian people.

Call them displaced arabs, most likely Jordanians.

Oh please Palestine has existed sine it was named by the Romans. The place that never existed however was a nation called Israel it didn't exist until 1948.

Exactly. Arabic doesn't even have a letter "P".

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: Mr Mask

Really, I said all that. Well, I'll be.

Yes, you are delusional if you believe in palestine or that they have been the only "victims" here. Most prestigious podiums you say. I guess that makes them there smart, dern't it.

You call those brave who disagree with me? I call all of you cowards for not applying critical thinking to this issue. Remind me of democrats who, when faced with cold hard facts, scream at the top of their lungs trying to shout everyone else down so as to be the only person heard in the room. Sickening really.

The so-called people from a so-called place named palestine would be better off to go back to the countries they came from...namely Jordan and Syria.

Go ahead ATS....gang up on me, hate me, call me delusional, but in the end I know how this will turn out. YOU ALL LOSE.

1) Yes...you did plainly say all that I pointed you saying. That would be "Palestine" is not a real State and there are no Palsitians. This has two effects, one it allows you to ignore the outright murder of women, children and men that outnumbers the death toll delivered by them. It also allows you to diminish them as non-people.

That is disgusting. You disgust me as you say these things. Imagine anyone saying "Israel is not real and there are no Israelis. I'm sure your propaganda supporting mind would throw a fit.

2) Yes Palestine is real. It is legitimate and supported as being so by all countries that are not in the dark ages, and some that still are. You are showing that you have no understanding (or worse, have a racist agenda or hate-filled view on Palestine) of the world stage when you shake your hate-clenched fists to shake them at the "victims" of Israel's wrath.

3) Nothing Palestine did or will do will ever be on the level of the Genocide Israel is committing.

4) No, I do not support Hamas killing anyone. But it is clear to the free world that is aware and awake they are fighting in a corner and victims of a Zionist agenda that is seeking to perform Genocide.

5) Is Noam Chomsky smart? Oh yes. Possibly the world's brightest and most educated man on the situation alive today. He is also a proud Jew. He would lecture you and belittle your little crystalline sphere of falsehoods on the subject faster than you could honor the countless murders of the people of Palestine. In fact, I would ask you to start looking deeper into the situation over there, but its clear now that you are a zealot who supports one side over the other...the side that is MORE guilty than any other involved.

6) The Zionist regime has no right to the land. And they should be brought up on the exact same war crimes as Hitler and his regime. Because they are operating exactly the same.

7) Real Jews do not support Israel. They mock it and they demand it to be abolished.

8) The Zionist regime is not religious and they have murdered countless innocent women, children and men. They have fed women to dogs, tied children to jeeps and raped and killed countless Palestinians. And they continue to do so.

9) Hamas is firing rockets because they are under brutal attack and being reduced to "non-people", just like you are doing to them with your hate speech.

You want to say people are ganging up on you or Israel? No sir...Israel is simply losing the information war now that their crimes are being shown to the world. Pre-internet days were fun times for these criminals. Nobody was the wiser.

Now more and more people are waking up to the murders, rapes, bombings and slavery that has long now become Israel's Modus operandi.

No sir...it is not us "peace loving people" who are wrong. Is people like you cheering on the bully who bleeds the weak.

No sir, Israel is no victim. They stole land and they kill countless innocents.

No sir, this is not media hype or propaganda. This is the world stage and now it is even being seen by the casual mind-washed American citizen.

YOU can defend the criminals all you like, but don't you dare paint this as Antisemitism. Zionists are not religious nor are they even being attacked for reasons of race or creed. No, they are aggressors and murderers, and nothing will change the history of that.

And before you ask...YES, I am Jew. And like ALL real Jews, I am aware and disgusted of the truth of Israel.

Enjoy your day.

Hugs.

PS-You know how this ends? We all lose? Hhahaahahah. Why? Because the Genocide can't be stopped? Good luck with that bro. Cus it will stop. One day. And these Nazi's will be brought to trial to pay for what they have done and what they do. I promise.

MM

a reply to: FyreByrd

Here's some more background - not just on the Middle East but the whole Colonial implosion we are experiencing worldwide.

www.commondreams.org...

The world, as it now exists, was largely shaped by the colonial powers, which divided the world among themselves, carving out states without any consideration for existing ethnic, religious or cultural realities. This was especially true of Africa and the Arab world, where the concept of state was imposed on systems of tribes and clans.

It's a good article on the subject.

originally posted by: Anglojew

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: intrepid

That area has not always been referred to as Palestine. There is no nation known as Palestine, no true Palestinian people.

Call them displaced arabs, most likely Jordanians.

Oh please Palestine has existed sine it was named by the Romans. The place that never existed however was a nation called Israel it didn't exist until 1948.

Wrong the name comes from Herodotus who wrote of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê" in The Histories it was an area in what is now Syria. Later during the Byzantine period, the entire region (Syria Palestine, Samaria, and the Galilee) was named Palaestina. A country or people never existed by that name until Yassar Arafat created it it was nothing more than a name for a geographic area like saying europe or asia.This area is the most disputed lands on the planet and has changed hands so many times in its history as to be ridiculous. The region has been controlled by numerous different peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians. Notice the last two were very late comers in the big scheme of things thats why Israel is big on archaeology so they can associate themselves with Israelites. Oh and by the way there was a couple more in that list but some only lasted a generation or two so often get forgotten like Palmyrene Empire.

But back on point there has never been Palestinians as a group of people unless you consider south Americans and asians as a people unfortunately thats not the way it works when tracing origin of a group.

a reply to: 12m8keall2c

And anyone who thinks this is an age old conflict that has gone on and on for thousands of years. That is rubbish. There are living Jews and Muslims who remember a time not too long ago where there was no conflict. All of this is new. This is not a historically ancient battle between two forces. This is a newly created conflict produced in the last handful of decades by rich and powerful people who want to control and crush the weak with no care or regret.

Jews and Muslims not too long ago raised each other's children, shared homes, were friendly and fine with each other.

In fact, many still are.

Stop falling for the lies of state made propaganda that is selling you that this is a long standing conflict that goes back to ages before America. It is not true.

And don't think all Jews support Zionism. The truly religious ones do not.



With that said. I am sick to my stomach with the nonsense I have read here by some blind folks who ignore the facts and blame the victims. I am done here. And I am almost sure I have just been put on a list for speaking the truth.

Screw Zionism.

MM

originally posted by: Anglojew


False and misleading maps. This is the reality;

The Palestinians are one of the fastest growing populations in earth. In the last hundred years all the deaths combined are half of the present Syrian conflict. A ridiculous accusation.

In what way misleading - show me the maps you think are accurate?

And what does the birthrate have to do with anything?

Question does egypt have any responsibility as well? They built a wall and its only purpose is to make sure Palestinians dont enter egypt. Well correction more like they cant leave the arab league needs them to be there. They made a statement which i find kind of shocking.Arabs have literally created a prison and trying to make Israel have to play guards. Hisham Youssef, spokesman for the 22-nation Arab League, acknowledged that Palestinians live 'in very bad conditions,' but he said the policy is meant 'to preserve their Palestinian identity. "If every Palestinian who sought refuge in a certain country was integrated and accommodated into that country, there won't be any reason for them to return to Palestine,"

There has never been a people known as "Palestinians" there from Lebanon,Syria and Jordan
See people dont look at what happened there GAZA was refugee camps started because Jordan started trying toget the Fahta movement out of Jordan.

This lie, is the 'seeded lie' of Zionism that you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Yes, there IS and there WAS a thriving pre-industrial burgeoning nation state called Palestine. This is a matter of recorded fact, not opinion.

Yes, if people leave now or move and integrate they know they will loose the last of the ties they have to who they are and where they came from...this would only complete the destruction of Palestine to their minds and to Zionist minds. This has been the cost of Israeli occupation, to go or to stay is to risk death.

The prisons that are now Gaza and the West Bank were not Arab inventions, they manifested as a means to control Arab movement in the new Zionist state in the days after the first Israeli attacks so they existed just after the 1948 leveling of Palestinian cities and it was Zionist troops, many sequestered from Nazi Germany itself, that built them. This is a historical fact. Not a supposition or opinion and it can be proven easily.

Palestine had economy and cities, cities Israel denies existed then and still denies existed today.

Educate yourself.
Lost cities of Palestine pre 1948

Now the hard part whats the answer we cant move Israel to late for that. We cant move the palistinians no country wants them. So sharing i doubt will work to much bad blood between the two. Creating separate territories doubt that as well because even when Palestinians are given land there is still attacks. If we split it down the middle they would still fight so im thinking there is no answer.

You are incorrect and yes of course we can remove Zionists from Palestine. Zionism has been outed and ousted many times before in many nations around the world and had we said the same about appeasing Nazi Germany in Europe at the time, the reality is you'd likely not be alive right now or speaking German or Japanese as a result of that apathy.

What has been lost to these people is beyond access and borders and even homes or children..it is their history, culture and generational connections. Israel can never replace those even if it left tomorrow. No matter how guilded the cage is....it is still a cage. Palestine is the home of Palestinians. They owned land, had cities, culture, arts, community and connectedness with the outer world as a group. They have Genetic links to the region, they have religious and cultural links..it is their home.No one has a right to 'move them' from this home, no one has ever had the right to. That, is the whole point. Zionism is using world Jewry for its own ends. Sooner or later, that is going to come back to bite them. So be it.

originally posted by: Mr Mask
a reply to: 12m8keall2c

And anyone who thinks this is an age old conflict that has gone on and on for thousands of years. That is rubbish. There are living Jews and Muslims who remember a time not too long ago where there was no conflict. All of this is new.

Thank you!

That so few seem to grasp this, is evidence of just how insidious Zionist programming is. The supporting evidence of this videos speakers' claims is in the fact that the largest population of Jews outside the USA is in Iran..peacefully living in the heart of so called 'enemy territory'.

Zionists, as they did in Russia, Germany and now Palestine, stole from world Jewry its own sacred Rite, and three times now, Jewish people are facing an undeserved backlash and blame. I am deeply proud of Torah abiding Jewry for their ongoing support of the people of Palestine. It hasn't gone unnoticed where it matters...or in my own heart.

Rosha

originally posted by: Mr Mask
a reply to: 12m8keall2c

And anyone who thinks this is an age old conflict that has gone on and on for thousands of years. That is rubbish. There are living Jews and Muslims who remember a time not too long ago where there was no conflict. All of this is new. This is not a historically ancient battle between two forces. This is a newly created conflict produced in the last handful of decades by rich and powerful people who want to control and crush the weak with no care or regret.

Jews and Muslims not too long ago raised each other's children, shared homes, were friendly and fine with each other.

In fact, many still are.

Stop falling for the lies of state made propaganda that is selling you that this is a long standing conflict that goes back to ages before America. It is not true.

And don't think all Jews support Zionism. The truly religious ones do not.

With that said. I am sick to my stomach with the nonsense I have read here by some blind folks who ignore the facts and blame the victims. I am done here. And I am almost sure I have just been put on a list for speaking the truth.

Screw Zionism.

MM

Your battling windmills there is no distinct version of Zionism means different things to different people. Some its as simple as return of the jews to the holy land you know that bible stuff others it can mean many things and takes many forms. for example there is General Zionism, Religious Zionism, Labor Zionism, Revisionist Zionism, Green Zionism and thats just a few. You look like your dealing with other issues entirely like there seems to be alot of animosity but looks to me like your just generalizing as ive said before nothing is black and white. And this kind of hatred doesnt help the situation on either side realize Jews are the most paranoid people on the planet and you could argue they have a right to be they have thousands of years of history and lets just say they always got the short stick. So now they see themselves as protectors of Judaism which leads to alot of problems but when people talk like you do its not goingto make them change there mind is it?

originally posted by: Rosha

originally posted by: Mr Mask
a reply to: 12m8keall2c

And anyone who thinks this is an age old conflict that has gone on and on for thousands of years. That is rubbish. There are living Jews and Muslims who remember a time not too long ago where there was no conflict. All of this is new.

Thank you!

That so few seem to grasp this, is evidence of just how insidious Zionist programming is. The supporting evidence of this videos speakers' claims is in the fact that the largest population of Jews outside the USA is in Iran..peacefully living in the heart of so called 'enemy territory'.

Zionist, as they did in Russia, Germany and now Palestine, stole from world Jewry its own sacred Rite, and three times now, Jewish people are facing an undeserved backlash and blame. I am deeply proud of Torah abiding Jewry for their ongoing support of the people of Palestine. It hasn't gone unnoticed where it matters...or in my own heart.

Rosha

Iran has nothing to do with it and not sure your point. This fight is about the holy land and who controls it. And its been going on for centuries and will probably continue for many more. Remember 3 major religions consider this area important and thats the heart of the issue the Palestinians are nothing more than pawns in the game.

originally posted by: dragonridr


Iran has nothing to do with it and not sure your point. This fight is about the holy land and who controls it. And its been going on for centuries and will probably continue for many more. Remember 3 major religions consider this area important and thats the heart of the issue the Palestinians are nothing more than pawns in the game.

Firstly, I wasn't not responding to you but to Mask, and sorry but no, I am not a pleb or mindless drone and can think ,see, assess and judge the situation for myself based on fact, actual fact, not the "newspeak" lies of the barely 100year old Zionist movement.
1+1 = 2 not 3 and always will.

This most recent rebirth of Zionism purging itself into the world is certainly using religion, but it remains, this is not a religious war. And it's not like we've not seen them do this before...only this time, their capacity to manipulate the propaganda and so their usurping of otherwise good consciences, minds and people to their sick cause is sickeningly brutal to witness.

They even have you supporting them.....tell me..would you have supported Hitler too? No? Why not?

Given you are here on this site to supposedly deny ignorance and given Zionists are the ones that DID support Hitler and the Reich into form and power, funded them, fed them policy and fed his own megalomania and ambitions..I thought you'd be more tuned into to whats going on right in front of your eyes.

Shame..but not unexpected given their methods and the free reign to develop them they have had until now.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

If Hamas wouldn't attack Israel they would have no reason to hit Gaza... Israel pulled all settlers and military out of Gaza, and what they got in return was increased rocket fire from Hamas.

the people whom occupy Israel NOW, were NOT there a hundred years ago.....the Palestinians were.

Britain put the Jewish population there with the Balfour Agreement of 1889.
by 1903 they were moving in the 'Jews' that for some reason, had NO COUNTRY of their own.
by the 1050's, when Britain handed over ALL their holdings in the middle east, giving the newly settled Jewish state control...then they did to the Palestinians what WE did to the American Indian....

they are fighting for their LAND back...

Lets put it into context...when was the last time you saw dozens of photo's of children with the back of their heads blown of, Israeli children? none, always Palestinian

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: Mr Mask

Really, I said all that. Well, I'll be.

You said that and more...

The so-called people from a so-called place named palestine would be better off to go back to the countries they came from...namely Jordan and Syria.

I presume you are taking the moral high ground here, right?

but in the end I know how this will turn out. YOU ALL LOSE.

And there it is.... It's clearly not about resolving issues for the betterment of all parties involved, it's about winners and losers. Got it. Thank you for your insightful contributions to ATS.....

Let's put it this way... You own a land where you and your family lived for generations, suddenly because of a dispute with a very rich and cruel neighbour, you and your family are driven out by force out of your land.. After wandering around aimlessly the cruel neighbour died and you returned to claim back your land. But when you return you saw many squatters living in your land and claiming it is theirs. Since you know this is your land for generations you evicted them by any means necessary. You think you are in the right because it is your own land and BY LAW YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO YOUR OWN PROPERTY.

But the evicted Squatters think they also got the law in their side , so feeling justified they keep enroaching your land and terrorizing your family members. In a fit of anger you lash out defending your land and family and make a deal with a far away strong and kindly neighbour who seem agreeable and supporting your cause..

BUT suddenly you realized that this strong neighbour really just using you and your cause to fight with other smaller neighbour in the area because this strong neighbour wanted all the stuff that your neighbours produce..

SO this got you thinking of your own survival and tried to balance this Greedy but far neighbour with the anger of your immediate neighbour..

in the end you and your family are between a rock and a boulder, in short : SCREWED ..

What to do now ? :

- If this strong neighbour lift his protection from you , your land and family will be consumed by your immediate neighbours and the evicted people..
- if you keep obeying this crazy greedy but far away neighbour , you will risk anger and attack from your immediate neighbour , which is small attacks but slowly sapping your strength and money..


WHAT TO DO NOW ?

a reply to: milomilo

The long and short of this isn't about land. Truth is, there is plenty to go around, no this is about hatred. Which is why it amazes me that from a simple cursory overview of organized religion throughout history, people in the 21st century are still convinced there's a place for it in society. It does more harm than good and justifies one group of people to feel superior to another, yet profess to not be in judgement. This is about deep seeded hatred and ingrained belief systems.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u


Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. It has no more terrorist policies than the US or Israel -- both of which freely attack civilian targets.

No doubt if the US gave the Palestinians $4 billion in military aid each year, like it does Israel, the Palestinians would be using F-16's and such to attack military targets in Israel, rather than firing low-tech rockets in a fairly random pattern.

Moreover, claiming Palestine, not Israel is the problem is akin to saying that Poland and the Jews were the problem, not Nazi Germany.

And please spare me any inane Godwin's Law comments. Sometimes bringing up analogies using Nazi Germany are quite pertinent and germane -- not to mention ironic.

Let's look further at this analogy, though. The US and the UK had no problem targeting and killing hundreds of thousands of civilian Germans and Japanese during WWII. If that does not make the US and the UK terrorist nations, then Palestine is not one either.