Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

a reply to: CommandoJoe

since you provided few quotes from Zuhair Muhsin, Hafez Assad and Walid Shoebat that is a big enough proof of your theory, right?

NOT!

funny how you pasted few quotes like it was BooM! a groundbreaking research on Palestine and Palestinians...

all the quotes must be taken into contest and circumstances and especially interesting is the last one from "ex - Palestinian Arab", I mean if he say so than it must be the truth, right?

how many interesting quotes we could find from certain Israeli politicians and leaders, former and present?

I am sure you would not accept it as any kind of proof but you are pasting here some quotes, ah whatever...

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: CommandoJoe

since you provided few quotes from Zuhair Muhsin, Hafez Assad and Walid Shoebat that is a big enough proof of your theory, right?

NOT!

funny how you pasted few quotes like it was BooM! a groundbreaking research on Palestine and Palestinians...

all the quotes must be taken into contest and circumstances and especially interesting is the last one from "ex - Palestinian Arab", I mean if he say so than it must be the truth, right?

how many interesting quotes we could find from certain Israeli politicians and leaders, former and present?

I have no doubt there were things said by former, long dead Israeli leaders that are not good - I've seen several before. The thing is, many people here think that I blindly support Israel, which is not the case and I've said it many times before. Israel has done bad things over the years (How many governments out there haven't?), and I have no problem admitting that. I'll say it again to be absolutely clear - Israel DOES get it wrong sometimes, no doubt about it. When it comes to dealing with Hamas though, this is not one of those times.

I am sure you would not accept it as any kind of proof but you are pasting here some quotes, ah whatever...

Not true and not needed - see above. The difference is that quotes from the Israeli leaders (at least the ones I've seen) have to do with their view of Arabs and how to treat them. The quotes I posted relate to the origin of the term Palestinian...

On 29 November 1947 the United Nations General Assembly approved a resolution dividing British-mandated Palestine into a Jewish state incorporating 56 percent of Palestine and an Arab state incorporating 44 percent of it. In the ensuing war the newly born State of Israel expanded its borders to incorporate nearly 80 percent of Palestine. The only areas of Palestine not conquered comprised the West Bank, which the Kingdom of Jordan subsequently annexed, and the Gaza Strip, which came under Egypt’s administrative control. Approximately 250,000 Palestinians driven out of their homes during the 1948 war and its aftermath fled to Gaza and overwhelmed the indigenous population of some 80,000.

Today 80 percent of Gaza’s inhabitants consist of refugees from the 1948 war and their descendants, and more than half of the population is under 18 years of age. Its current 1.5 million inhabitants are squeezed into a sliver of land 25 miles long and five miles wide, making Gaza one of the most densely populated places in the world. The panhandle of the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza is bordered by Israel on the north and east, Egypt on the south, and the Mediterranean Sea on the west. In the course of its four decade long occupation beginning in June 1967, and prior to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s redeployment of Israeli troops from inside Gaza to its perimeter in 2005, Israel had imposed on Gaza a uniquely exploitive regime of “de-development” that, in the words of Harvard political economist Sara Roy, deprived “the native population of its most important economic resources—land, water, and labor—as well as the internal capacity and potential for developing those resources.”

The road to modern Gaza’s desperate plight is paved with many previous atrocities, most long forgotten or never known outside Palestine. After the cessation of battlefield hostilities in 1949, Egypt kept a tight rein on the activity of Fedayeen (Palestinian guerrillas) in Gaza until February 1955, when Israel launched a bloody cross-border raid into Gaza killing 40 Egyptians. Israeli leaders had plotted to lure Egypt into war in order to topple President Gamal Abdel Nasser, and the Gaza raid proved the perfect provocation as armed border clashes escalated. In October 1956 Israel (in collusion with Great Britain and France) invaded the Egyptian Sinai and occupied Gaza, which it had long coveted. The prominent Israeli historian Benny Morris described what happened next:

Many Fedayeen and an estimated 4,000 Egyptian and Palestinian regulars were trapped in the Strip, identified, and rounded up by the IDF [Israel Defense Forces], GSS [General Security Service], and police. Dozens of these Fedayeen appear to have been summarily executed, without trial. Some were probably killed during two massacres by the IDF troops soon after the occupation of the Strip. On 3 November, the day Khan Yunis was conquered, IDF troops shot dead hundreds of Palestinian refugees and local inhabitants in the town. One U.N. report speaks of “some 135 local residents” and “140 refugees” killed as IDF troops moved through the town and its refugee camp “searching for people in possession of arms.”

In Rafah, which fell to the IDF on 1–2 November, Israeli troops killed between forty-eight and one hundred refugees and several local residents, and wounded another sixty-one during a massive screening operation on 12 November, in which they sought to identify former Egyptian and Palestinian soldiers and Fedayeen hiding among the local population. Another sixty-six Palestinians, probably Fedayeen, were executed in a number of other incidents during screening operations in the Gaza Strip between 2 and 20 November. The United Nations estimated that, all told, Israeli troops killed between 447 and 550 Arab civilians in the first three weeks of the occupation of the Strip.

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: CommandoJoe

since you provided few quotes from Zuhair Muhsin, Hafez Assad and Walid Shoebat that is a big enough proof of your theory, right?

NOT!

funny how you pasted few quotes like it was BooM! a groundbreaking research on Palestine and Palestinians...

all the quotes must be taken into contest and circumstances and especially interesting is the last one from "ex - Palestinian Arab", I mean if he say so than it must be the truth, right?

how many interesting quotes we could find from certain Israeli politicians and leaders, former and present?

I have no doubt there were things said by former, long dead Israeli leaders that are not good - I've seen several before. The thing is, many people here think that I blindly support Israel, which is not the case and I've said it many times before. Israel has done bad things over the years (How many governments out there haven't?), and I have no problem admitting that. I'll say it again to be absolutely clear - Israel DOES get it wrong sometimes, no doubt about it. When it comes to dealing with Hamas though, this is not one of those times.

I am sure you would not accept it as any kind of proof but you are pasting here some quotes, ah whatever...

Not true and not needed - see above. The difference is that quotes from the Israeli leaders (at least the ones I've seen) have to do with their view of Arabs and how to treat them. The quotes I posted relate to the origin of the term Palestinian...

I see information bias on both sides but what i will say is Palestinian propaganda isnt vetted at all any more. Every one is highly critical of Israel but we very rarely apply those same standards to Palestinians. Truth is both sides have propaganda for example Israel likes to play it off like palistinians are all terrorists waiting to kill Israelis. This is obviosly not true. And palistinians want people to believe they always lived there and are not refuges this is also not true.

Palistians were set up to harass Israel by the arab league but i dont condone Israels actions when dealing with them either. Problem is when you have two groups regularly shooting at each other animosity occurs and this can lead to inhuman acts on both sides. Like blowing up a bus in israel or Israel attacking by air knowing there will be civilian casualties.

Sadly at this point there are no easy answers only tough questions and no end in sight.

Religion is the problem. It's the "my god is better than your god" syndrome.

In March 1957 Israel was forced to withdraw from Gaza after U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower applied heavy diplomatic pressure and threatened economic sanctions. Current conditions in Gaza result directly from the events of 1967. In the course of the June 1967 war Israel reoccupied the Gaza Strip (along with the West Bank) and has remained the occupying power ever since. Morris reported that “the overwhelming majority of West Bank and Gaza Arabs from the first hated the occupation”; that “Israel intended to stay . . . and its rule would not be overthrown or ended through civil disobedience and civil resistance, which were easily crushed. The only real option was armed struggle”; that “like all occupations, Israel’s was founded on brute force, repression and fear, collaboration and treachery, beatings and torture chambers, and daily intimidation, humiliation, and manipulation”; and that the occupation “was always a brutal and mortifying experience for the occupied.” From the start, Palestinians have fought back against the Israeli occupation. Gazans have put up particularly stiff unarmed and armed resistance, while Israeli repression has proven equally unremitting. In 1969 Ariel Sharon became chief of the IDF southern command and not long after embarked on a campaign to crush the resistance in Gaza. A leading American academic specialist on Gaza recalled how Sharon

"placed refugee camps under twenty-four-hour curfews, during which troops conducted house-to-house searches and mustered all the men in the central square for questioning. Many men were forced to stand waist-deep in the Mediterranean Sea for hours during the searches. In addition, some twelve thousand members of families of suspected guerrillas were deported to detention camps . . . in Sinai. Within a few weeks, the Israeli press began to criticize the soldiers and border police for beating people, shooting into crowds, smashing belongings in houses, and imposing extreme restrictions during curfews. . . . In July 1971, Sharon added the tactic of “thinning out” the refugee camps. The military uprooted more than thirteen thousand residents by the end of August. The army bulldozed wide roads through the camps and through some citrus groves, thus making it easier for mechanized units to operate and for the infantry to control the camps....The army crackdown broke the back of the resistance."

In December 1987 a traffic accident on the Gaza-Israel border that left four Palestinians dead erupted into a mass rebellion or intifada against Israeli rule throughout the occupied territories. Morris recalled, “It was not an armed rebellion but a massive, persistent campaign of civil resistance, with strikes and commercial shutdowns, accompanied by violent (though unarmed) demonstrations against the occupying forces. The stone and, occasionally, the Molotov cocktail and knife were its symbols and weapons, not guns and bombs.” However it could not be said that Israel reacted in kind. Morris continued: “Almost everything was tried: shooting to kill, shooting to injure, beatings, mass arrests, torture, trials, administrative detention, and economic sanctions”; “A large proportion of the Palestinian dead were not shot in life-threatening situations, and a great many of these were children”; “Only a small minority of [the IDF] malefactors were brought to book by the army’s legal machinery—and were almost always let off with ludicrously light sentences.”

By the early 1990s Israel had successfully repressed the intifada. It subsequently entered into an agreement secretly negotiated in Oslo, Norway, with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and ratified in September 1993 on the White House lawn. Through the Oslo Accord Israel hoped to stream-line the occupation by removing its troops from direct contact with Palestinians and replacing them with Palestinian subcontractors. “One of the meanings of Oslo,” former Israeli foreign minister Shlomo Ben-Ami wrote, “was that the PLO was . . . Israel’s collaborator in the task of stifling the [first] intifada and cutting short what was clearly an authentically democratic struggle for Palestinian independence.” In particular Israel endeavored to reassign Palestinians the sordid work of occupation. “The idea of Oslo,” former Israeli minister Natan Sharansky observed, “was to find a strong dictator to . . . keep the Palestinians under control.”

“The Palestinians will be better at establishing internal security than we were,” Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin informed skeptics in his ranks, “because they will allow no appeals to the Supreme Court and will prevent [groups like] the Association for Civil Rights in Israel from criticizing the conditions there. . . . They will rule by their own methods, freeing, and this is most important, the Israeli soldiers from having to do what they will do.”

In July 2000 PLO head Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak joined U.S. President Bill Clinton at Camp David to negotiate a settlement of the conflict. The summit collapsed amid acrimonious accusations and counter-accusations. “If I were a Palestinian,” Ben-Ami, one of Israel’s chief negotiators at Camp David, later commented, “I would have rejected Camp David as well,” while a former director of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies concluded that the “substantial concessions” Israel demanded of Palestinians at Camp David “were not acceptable and could not be acceptable.” Subsequent negotiations also failed to achieve a diplomatic breakthrough. In December 2000 Clinton presented his “parameters” for resolving the conflict, which both sides accepted with reservations. In January 2001 talks resumed in Taba, Egypt. Although both parties affirmed that “significant progress had been made” and they had “never been closer to agreement,” Prime Minister Barak unilaterally “called a halt” to these negotiations, and as a result “the Israeli-Palestinian peace process had ground to an indefinite halt.”

In September 2000, amid these diplomatic parleys, Palestinians in the occupied territories once again launched an open rebellion. Like the 1987 rebellion this second intifada at its inception was overwhelmingly nonviolent. However, in Ben-Ami’s words, “Israel’s disproportionate response to what had started as a popular uprising with young, unarmed men confronting Israeli soldiers armed with lethal weapons fuelled the [second] intifada beyond control and turned it into an all-out war.” It is now largely forgotten that the first Hamas suicide bombing of the second intifada did not occur until five months into Israel’s relentless bloodletting. (Israeli forces fired one million rounds of ammunition in just the first few days, while the ratio of Palestinians to Israelis killed during the first weeks was 20:1.) In the course of the spiraling violence triggered by its “disproportionate response,” Israel struck Gaza with particular vengeance. In a cruel reworking of Ecclesiastes, each turn of season presaged yet another Israeli attack on Gaza that left scores dead and much destroyed: “Operation Rainbow” (2004), “Operation Days of Penitence” (2004), “Operation Summer Rains” (2006), “Operation Autumn Clouds” (2006), “Operation Hot Winter” (2008).

Despite the Israeli assaults, Gaza continued to roil. Already at the time of the Oslo Accord this intractability caused Israel to sour on the Strip. “If only it would just sink into the sea,” Rabin despaired. In April 2004 Prime Minister Sharon announced that Israel would “disengage” from Gaza, and by September 2005 both Israeli troops and Jewish settlers had been pulled out. In an interview Sharon advisor Dov Weisglass laid out the rationale behind the disengagement: it would relieve international, especially American, pressure on Israel, thereby “freezing...the political process. And when you freeze that process you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.” Roy observed that “with the disengagement from Gaza, the Sharon government was clearly seeking to preclude any return to political negotiations . . . while preserving and deepening its hold on Palestine.” Israel subsequently declared that it was no longer the occupying power in Gaza. However, human rights organizations and international institutions rejected this contention because in myriad ways Israel still preserved near-total dominance of the Strip. “Whether the Israeli army is inside Gaza or redeployed around its periphery,” Human Rights Watch (HRW) concluded, “it remains in control.”

The received wisdom is that the Oslo Accord was a failure because it did not result in a lasting peace. But such a verdict misconstrues the objective of the accord. If Israel’s goal was, as Ben-Ami pointed out, to groom a class of Palestinian collaborators, then Oslo was largely a success for Israelis. A look at the Oslo II Accord, signed in September 1995 and spelling out in detail the mutual rights and duties of the contracting parties to the 1993 agreement, suggests what loomed largest in the minds of the Palestinian negotiators: whereas four full pages are devoted to “Passage of [Palestinian] VIPs” (the section is subdivided into “Category 1 VIPs,” “Category 2 VIPs,” “Cat- egory 3 VIPs,” and “Secondary VIPs”), less than one page—the very last—is devoted to “Release of Palestinian Prisoners and Detainees,” who numbered in the many thousands.

The Oslo Accord allotted a five-year interim period allegedly for “confidence building” between the former foes. This was curious, given that when and where Israel genuinely sought peace the process moved swiftly. Thus, for decades Egypt was Israel’s prime nemesis in the Arab world, and it was Egypt that launched a surprise attack in 1973, killing thousands of Israeli soldiers. Nevertheless, only a half year elapsed between the September 1978 Camp David summit convened by U.S. President Jimmy Carter that produced the Egyptian-Israeli “Framework for Peace” and the March 1979 “Treaty of Peace” formally ending hostilities. Only three more years passed before Israel’s final evacuation from the Egyptian Sinai in April 1982. There was no need for a half decade of confidence building in Egypt’s case.

In reality the purpose of the protracted interim period built into Oslo was not confidence building to facilitate an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement but collaboration building to facilitate a burden-free Israeli occupation. It was rightly supposed that, after growing accustomed to the emoluments of power and privilege, the handful of Palestinian beneficiaries would be averse to parting with them and, however reluctantly, would do the bidding of the power that meted out the largesse. The interim period also enabled Israel to test the reliability of these Palestinian subcontractors as crises periodically erupted. The one holdout in the senior ranks of the Palestinian leadership was Arafat who, for all his opportunism, seems to have carried in him a residue of his nationalist past and would not settle for presiding over a Bantustan. Once he passed from the scene in November 2004, however, all the pieces were in place for the “Palestinian Authority” to reach a modus vivendi with Israel. Except that it was too late.

In January 2006, sickened by years of official corruption, the Palestinians elected the Islamic movement Hamas into office. Israel immediately tightened its blockade on Gaza and the U.S. joined in. It was demanded of the newly elected government that it renounce violence and recognize Israel together with prior Israeli-Palestinian agreements. These pre-conditions for international engagement were unilateral: Israel wasn’t also required to renounce violence; Israel wasn’t required to withdraw from the territories it occupied in 1967 and to allow for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination; and whereas Hamas was required to recognize prior agreements such as the Oslo Accord, which perpetuated the occupation and enabled Israel to vastly increase its illegal settlements, Israel was free to eviscerate prior agreements such as the 2003 “Road Map.”

In June 2007 Hamas foiled a coup attempt orchestrated by the United States in league with Israel and elements of the prior Palestinian regime and consolidated its control of Gaza. Israel and the United States reacted promptly to Hamas’s rejection of U.S. President George W. Bush’s “democracy promotion” initiative by further tightening the screws on Gaza. In June 2008 Hamas and Israel entered into a ceasefire brokered by Egypt, but in November of that year Israel violated the ceasefire by carrying out a bloody border raid on Gaza akin to its February 1955 border raid. The objective once again was to provoke retaliation and thereby provide the pretext for an attack.

That border raid was only the preamble to a more sustained assault. On 27 December 2008 Israel launched “Operation Cast Lead.” The first week consisted of air attacks, which were followed on 3 January 2009 by an air and ground assault. Piloting the most advanced combat aircraft in the world, the Israeli air corps flew nearly 3,000 sorties over Gaza and dropped 1,000 tons of explosives, while the Israeli army deployment comprised several brigades equipped with sophisticated intelligence-gathering systems and weaponry such as robotic and TV-aided remote controlled guns. During the attack Palestinian armed groups fired some 570 mostly rudimentary rockets and 200 mortars into Israel. On 18 January a ceasefire went into effect, but the economic strangulation of Gaza continued. In the meantime international public opinion reacted with horror at Israel’s assault on a defenseless civilian population. In September 2009 a United Nations Human Rights Council Fact Finding Mission chaired by the respected jurist Richard Goldstone released a voluminous report documenting Israel’s commission of massive war crimes and possible crimes against humanity. The report also accused Hamas of committing similar crimes, but on a scale that paled by comparison. It was clear that, in the words of Israeli columnist Gideon Levy, “this time we went too far.”

a reply to: PatriotGames2

thank you for the great info - keep it up!

oh please...plenty of palestinians want peace......its the people that want peace...and its the people that are in charge that focus on attacking........

do you really think humans are inhumane?

This is wrong. War, no war. This is cruel and could lead devastation in the Middle East.

nypost.com...

And I know this slightly off topic, but regardless of who's at fault, humans shouldn't be this desensitized.

www.infowars.com...

a reply to: BO XIAN

Do you think I'm the "Dark Lord" himself? OooooOh spooky. *Wiggles his fingers, and conjures up a deep voice*. You can call me Voldemort, it's OK. Both him and Satan are on equal fictional ground in my opinion. Nevertheless, I plan to enjoy it just plenty with the people of the world as one.....

Right after the United Nations creates a middle east peace treaty. Specifically written, with all Abrahamic religious eschatology in mind, in order to not only prevent "end of the world" hysteria from all you folk, but actually prevent it peacefully. Then enforce it, via US Military. You boys love war, so, you should have no problem doing this. We're giving you another one if you want it.

Oh, and part of that Treaty? Israel has to write her own Constitution, in which equal protection applies to everyone, including non-jewish folk of any nationality. Like they should have been doing in the first place.

Now, to avoid the religious crazies SAYING OMG OMG 7 YEARS OMG, we can select random number like.... 104.5 years. And it has to be written by a group of people, not one man. So that way there's no claims of anyone being the fictional character known as the Anti-Christ/Assyrian/Man of Lawlessness/etc. Basically do it exactly opposite from what is expected.

If done properly, no one can go screaming it's the end of the world. Religion gets put back into the opinion isle, we can try to move into a type 1 civilization.

Are you ready?

connecticut.cbslocal.com...

Palestine is for the Palestinians only

originally posted by: PatriotGames2
On 29 November 1947 the United Nations General Assembly approved a resolution dividing British-mandated Palestine into a Jewish state incorporating 56 percent of Palestine and an Arab state incorporating 44 percent of it. In the ensuing war the newly born State of Israel expanded its borders to incorporate nearly 80 percent of Palestine. The only areas of Palestine not conquered comprised the West Bank, which the Kingdom of Jordan subsequently annexed, and the Gaza Strip, which came under Egypt’s administrative control. Approximately 250,000 Palestinians driven out of their homes during the 1948 war and its aftermath fled to Gaza and overwhelmed the indigenous population of some 80,000.

Today 80 percent of Gaza’s inhabitants consist of refugees from the 1948 war and their descendants, and more than half of the population is under 18 years of age. Its current 1.5 million inhabitants are squeezed into a sliver of land 25 miles long and five miles wide, making Gaza one of the most densely populated places in the world. The panhandle of the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza is bordered by Israel on the north and east, Egypt on the south, and the Mediterranean Sea on the west. In the course of its four decade long occupation beginning in June 1967, and prior to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s redeployment of Israeli troops from inside Gaza to its perimeter in 2005, Israel had imposed on Gaza a uniquely exploitive regime of “de-development” that, in the words of Harvard political economist Sara Roy, deprived “the native population of its most important economic resources—land, water, and labor—as well as the internal capacity and potential for developing those resources.”

The road to modern Gaza’s desperate plight is paved with many previous atrocities, most long forgotten or never known outside Palestine. After the cessation of battlefield hostilities in 1949, Egypt kept a tight rein on the activity of Fedayeen (Palestinian guerrillas) in Gaza until February 1955, when Israel launched a bloody cross-border raid into Gaza killing 40 Egyptians. Israeli leaders had plotted to lure Egypt into war in order to topple President Gamal Abdel Nasser, and the Gaza raid proved the perfect provocation as armed border clashes escalated. In October 1956 Israel (in collusion with Great Britain and France) invaded the Egyptian Sinai and occupied Gaza, which it had long coveted. The prominent Israeli historian Benny Morris described what happened next:

Many Fedayeen and an estimated 4,000 Egyptian and Palestinian regulars were trapped in the Strip, identified, and rounded up by the IDF [Israel Defense Forces], GSS [General Security Service], and police. Dozens of these Fedayeen appear to have been summarily executed, without trial. Some were probably killed during two massacres by the IDF troops soon after the occupation of the Strip. On 3 November, the day Khan Yunis was conquered, IDF troops shot dead hundreds of Palestinian refugees and local inhabitants in the town. One U.N. report speaks of “some 135 local residents” and “140 refugees” killed as IDF troops moved through the town and its refugee camp “searching for people in possession of arms.”

In Rafah, which fell to the IDF on 1–2 November, Israeli troops killed between forty-eight and one hundred refugees and several local residents, and wounded another sixty-one during a massive screening operation on 12 November, in which they sought to identify former Egyptian and Palestinian soldiers and Fedayeen hiding among the local population. Another sixty-six Palestinians, probably Fedayeen, were executed in a number of other incidents during screening operations in the Gaza Strip between 2 and 20 November. The United Nations estimated that, all told, Israeli troops killed between 447 and 550 Arab civilians in the first three weeks of the occupation of the Strip.

Even the opening paragraph of this is inaccurate. 78% of the Mandate of Palestine is the country known as Jordan. The remaining 22% form Israel and the West Bank and Gaza.

www.mythsandfacts.org...

originally posted by: PatriotGames2
The Oslo Accord allotted a five-year interim period allegedly for “confidence building” between the former foes. This was curious, given that when and where Israel genuinely sought peace the process moved swiftly. Thus, for decades Egypt was Israel’s prime nemesis in the Arab world, and it was Egypt that launched a surprise attack in 1973, killing thousands of Israeli soldiers. Nevertheless, only a half year elapsed between the September 1978 Camp David summit convened by U.S. President Jimmy Carter that produced the Egyptian-Israeli “Framework for Peace” and the March 1979 “Treaty of Peace” formally ending hostilities. Only three more years passed before Israel’s final evacuation from the Egyptian Sinai in April 1982. There was no need for a half decade of confidence building in Egypt’s case.

In reality the purpose of the protracted interim period built into Oslo was not confidence building to facilitate an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement but collaboration building to facilitate a burden-free Israeli occupation. It was rightly supposed that, after growing accustomed to the emoluments of power and privilege, the handful of Palestinian beneficiaries would be averse to parting with them and, however reluctantly, would do the bidding of the power that meted out the largesse. The interim period also enabled Israel to test the reliability of these Palestinian subcontractors as crises periodically erupted. The one holdout in the senior ranks of the Palestinian leadership was Arafat who, for all his opportunism, seems to have carried in him a residue of his nationalist past and would not settle for presiding over a Bantustan. Once he passed from the scene in November 2004, however, all the pieces were in place for the “Palestinian Authority” to reach a modus vivendi with Israel. Except that it was too late.

In January 2006, sickened by years of official corruption, the Palestinians elected the Islamic movement Hamas into office. Israel immediately tightened its blockade on Gaza and the U.S. joined in. It was demanded of the newly elected government that it renounce violence and recognize Israel together with prior Israeli-Palestinian agreements. These pre-conditions for international engagement were unilateral: Israel wasn’t also required to renounce violence; Israel wasn’t required to withdraw from the territories it occupied in 1967 and to allow for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination; and whereas Hamas was required to recognize prior agreements such as the Oslo Accord, which perpetuated the occupation and enabled Israel to vastly increase its illegal settlements, Israel was free to eviscerate prior agreements such as the 2003 “Road Map.”

In June 2007 Hamas foiled a coup attempt orchestrated by the United States in league with Israel and elements of the prior Palestinian regime and consolidated its control of Gaza. Israel and the United States reacted promptly to Hamas’s rejection of U.S. President George W. Bush’s “democracy promotion” initiative by further tightening the screws on Gaza. In June 2008 Hamas and Israel entered into a ceasefire brokered by Egypt, but in November of that year Israel violated the ceasefire by carrying out a bloody border raid on Gaza akin to its February 1955 border raid. The objective once again was to provoke retaliation and thereby provide the pretext for an attack.

That border raid was only the preamble to a more sustained assault. On 27 December 2008 Israel launched “Operation Cast Lead.” The first week consisted of air attacks, which were followed on 3 January 2009 by an air and ground assault. Piloting the most advanced combat aircraft in the world, the Israeli air corps flew nearly 3,000 sorties over Gaza and dropped 1,000 tons of explosives, while the Israeli army deployment comprised several brigades equipped with sophisticated intelligence-gathering systems and weaponry such as robotic and TV-aided remote controlled guns. During the attack Palestinian armed groups fired some 570 mostly rudimentary rockets and 200 mortars into Israel. On 18 January a ceasefire went into effect, but the economic strangulation of Gaza continued. In the meantime international public opinion reacted with horror at Israel’s assault on a defenseless civilian population. In September 2009 a United Nations Human Rights Council Fact Finding Mission chaired by the respected jurist Richard Goldstone released a voluminous report documenting Israel’s commission of massive war crimes and possible crimes against humanity. The report also accused Hamas of committing similar crimes, but on a scale that paled by comparison. It was clear that, in the words of Israeli columnist Gideon Levy, “this time we went too far.”

You're just white-washing Hamas terrorism. Israel's proved the land-for-peace formula with Egypt. It is the Palestinians that haven't.

Why would Israel give up the West Bank now given the precedence for more missiles and attacks Hamas has set in Gaza?

a reply to: Not Authorized

Blasphemer nah just kidding your right though removing religion from the middle east is impossible never happen. Bottom line is any solution's that dont take religion into account are destined to fail. Unless one day Christians Jews and Muslims realize religion isnt worth killing for and dying for think for the most part Christians caught on. We have to find a way where the only alternative is peace and what could be so horrible that peace is the only option? The other solution the UN takes responsibility for the Refuges they left in gaza and the west bank not likely. The arab league removes there ban on letting Palestinians integrate back into there society also not likely.We move the Israelis off the holy land again aint going to happen. We can let them duke it out stand back and see whose there at the end. Not the most civilized way but effective. Or we find a way to integrate these two into one country possible only if we can get the violence to stop which isnt likely.

So whats that mean well it means 2 hundred years from know they will have this same issue with nothing changed. And people willbe saying the same things and both sides will continue to propagate there story. I do have one idea however parcel up the land put everyone into a big lottery if you win land you stay its your if not you go. No more fighting Palestinians and Jews would have to work together since your neighbor could be either one.

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: adnanmuf
Palestine is not the problem. Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Palestinians are called Palestinians because the are from Palestine. 9 million Palestinians are outside of Palestine as refugees.

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".

- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

- Walid Shoebat, an "ex-Palestinian" Arab -

your references did not change the fact that Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Thieves need leave Palestine and let the Palestinians decide for themselves.

Palestinians want peace to themselves living in their own homeland. Theives might get peace by returning the stolen property and pay the fines.

originally posted by: adnanmuf

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: adnanmuf
Palestine is not the problem. Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Palestinians are called Palestinians because the are from Palestine. 9 million Palestinians are outside of Palestine as refugees.

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".

- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

- Walid Shoebat, an "ex-Palestinian" Arab -

your references did not change the fact that Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Thieves need leave Palestine and let the Palestinians decide for themselves.

Palestinians want peace to themselves living in their own homeland. Theives might get peace by returning the stolen property and pay the fines.

Fine then Tunisia, Libya and Morocco belong to the Berbers and the Arabs can go back to Arabia.

originally posted by: HisRoyalJewness

originally posted by: adnanmuf

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: adnanmuf
Palestine is not the problem. Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Palestinians are called Palestinians because the are from Palestine. 9 million Palestinians are outside of Palestine as refugees.

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".

- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

- Walid Shoebat, an "ex-Palestinian" Arab -

your references did not change the fact that Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Thieves need leave Palestine and let the Palestinians decide for themselves.

Palestinians want peace to themselves living in their own homeland. Theives might get peace by returning the stolen property and pay the fines.

Fine then Tunisia, Libya and Morocco belong to the Berbers and the Arabs can go back to Arabia.

No North africa was always inhabited by Semites Phoenicians who hail from Yemen and spoke Arabic. Berber were further south. Arabs and Berber are best of friends and neighbor neithor of them complaining.
Palestinians are complaining about the Magogites impostering as Ancient Israelites to steal their homeland Palestine from them.

originally posted by: adnanmuf

originally posted by: HisRoyalJewness

originally posted by: adnanmuf

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: adnanmuf
Palestine is not the problem. Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Palestinians are called Palestinians because the are from Palestine. 9 million Palestinians are outside of Palestine as refugees.

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".


- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

- Walid Shoebat, an "ex-Palestinian" Arab -

your references did not change the fact that Palestine belong to the Palestinians. Thieves need leave Palestine and let the Palestinians decide for themselves.

Palestinians want peace to themselves living in their own homeland. Theives might get peace by returning the stolen property and pay the fines.

Fine then Tunisia, Libya and Morocco belong to the Berbers and the Arabs can go back to Arabia.

No North africa was always inhabited by Semites Phoenicians who hail from Yemen and spoke Arabic. Berber were further south. Arabs and Berber are best of friends and neighbor neithor of them complaining.
Palestinians are complaining about the Magogites impostering as Ancient Israelites to steal their homeland Palestine from them.

Phoenicia is not in Yemen. You're conflating ethnicity with language group anyway. Actually;

Phoenician was a language originally spoken in the coastal (Mediterranean) region then called "Canaan" in Phoenician, Arabic, Greek, and Aramaic, "Phoenicia" in Greek and Latin, and "Pūt" in Ancient Egyptian. Phoenician is a Semitic language of the Canaanite subgroup; its closest living relative is Hebrew, to which it is very similar

en.wikipedia.org...

Arabs and Berbers are NOT the best of friends. Arabs are suppressing both Berber culture and the Berber language.

The Berberist movement in Algeria and Morocco is in opposition against cultural Arabization and the pan-Arabist political ideology

en.wikipedia.org...