Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News)

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: maghun

The video has been reviewed several times now, including by UN experts. Chemical weapons were not used.
Russia has stated chemical weapons were not used.
Russia has apologized to Ukraine for the false claim they were used.

is there any reason you are trying to contradict the Russian government?

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdrayour right it is old. I am done with you. it is hard to debate with falsifiers.

So in other words you cannot support your position with facts, so you launch a personal attack, pack up your marbles, and leave.

Feel free at any time to learn and gather some facts to support your position and come back and share.

As has been stated time and again the cold war is over and Putin must learn to live with the fact that whatever he claims is not going to be taken as fact based solely on him stating it. By extensions you guys are in the same position. You guys love to make claims, refuse to supply sources, and then get pissed when people challenge you. If you go back and read the posts on this topic you will see Pro Putin people demanding others show respect for Putin while at the same time refusing the same to anyone else.

I am sorry if my facts don't support your propaganda.

Last time I checked, this was a thread about Ukraine. I don't know what Putin has to do with it, let alone these "Pro Putin people" you are rambling about.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: victor7

People on the ground know the realities regarding any Russian help coming or not. Mere 3 tanks and old rifles will not stand for long against the whole army with heavy weapons. Worst only 20-25% of these weapons have been reported to be working when thrown into use.

Seriously you should stop because you know as well as the world the separatists have more than just some old rifles that don't work.

And the last pic came from this nice little article...

ria.ru...

Sorry you can't hide the truth.

Hide what truth? What are you rambling about? Have you never seen weapons before?

That last one, is that a truck with an AA gun slapped on it, or is that a Russian T-90 MBT?

None of those indicate any shred of evidence towards what you are imposing. You fail to understand that the world (as you put it) knows that Ukraine is a top global arms exporter, and most of the arms that they produce are small arms. Small arms based on Soviet designs. Russia was once in the USSR, you know.

You want to see some Russian tanks that the rebels are using? You should look at the IS-3 and T-54 tanks that the rebels fixed after sitting at museums for decades. The IS-2 /IS-3 was rolling through Berlin back in 1945.

a reply to: Vovin

You would be correct this is a thread about Ukraine.

Specifically how Russia has accused Ukraine of using Chemical weapons, at which point the Russians realized they were wrong and admitted they were wrong.

Tell me why the sudden change on what can and cannot be posted? the info I have supplied goes into the Ukraine problems and Russia, the source of the Ukraine problem.

More often than not you guys have done the same in other threads. I am assuming that since there is no possible way to spin this topic you are trying to limit conversation on Russia's exposed involvement.

You guys consistently raise points about Russian involvement, specifically using terms describing Ukraine as Nazi etc. You reap what you so and in this instance you just going to have to accept the fact Russia lied, got caught, and is now being taken to task while Putin tries to decide which interest group he is going to screw over in order to fulfill promises to the other groups he has lied to.

Russia is supplying arms and equipment to the Pro Russians in Ukraine.
Russia claimed Ukraine used chemical weapons when in fact it was a lie by Russia.

Since the thread topic has been debunked, what would you like to discuss? Or are you wanting to repeat chemical weapons and Ukraine over and over while trying to prevent people from pointing out Putin's lies?


Let me help -
The topic of this thread has been debunked.
Russia made the accusation, which was based on a lie.
Absolutely no evidence is present that Chemical weapons have been used.
The video posted "showing" the chemical weapons are not from Ukraine.
The use of Phosphorous is not prohibited when used as smoke to cover movement or as an airburst for illumination.

now - Since there is nothing else to discuss on the topic, what should we talk about?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You are so wrong in your definition of the concept of being biased or not. Just because someone looks at the other side does not mean they look at their point of view and are objective and report both sides. What you showed me was the opposite. It was impartial and focussed on trying to prove the other side as wrong and bad.

Sorry.. you fail on this one, that is not unbiased reporting... I am not sure how I can make you understand that but if you have enough awareness of what is going on you should understand this unconditionally.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Just may I say wow! So much bull from am anonymous pile of crap... that means you of course Xcathda et al.
There is nothing worth degrading than people like yourselves that focus their time on hatred and disbelief of a better world focused on belief and understanding that you will ever understand? Ukraine is nothing? Think? Is Ukraine nothing? Is it ok to bomb people of a country? How many should die? And for what propose???? Why?

Tell me why people should die for this cause? I want everyone to give me a reason why people should die? If thy are against the government should they die and is it ok to die for the cause? Tell me?

Russia's position on Ukraine is weak as due to non-diversified nature of its economy which cannot with stand sanctions from the west. I have seen companies go bankrupt once their 1 or 2 major customers left. It is all a result of corrupt and criminal Russian culture which leaves no funds to cultivate and promote other industries. It leaves big portion of the population with barely surviving jobs and hence makes them more meek towards higher authorities and capital holders. In return "psychopathic and impractical" systems like communism keep their roots alive and spring into action at a little open opportunity. Yuk !!

However, there is little excuse for not supplying decent weapons to separatists. Who are these SuperHumans trying to fight a standard complete armies with rifles and semi-atomatic guns? These guys should pack up and leave instead of staying around and be mauled by rolling tanks and artillery shells.

It is possible Kremlin had sanctioned good weapons but some corrupt General in between sold them off and sent in WWII rifles instead. Rifles which were written off from the inventory long time ago.

Guess biggest enemies of Russia are within its borders.

a reply to: stanislas

I have found that when people make a post like you did, attacking the person instead of the facts, demonstrates that you are unable to refute the facts.

Don't make it personal and post info that counters my posts information.

As for the rest Russia was the one who started the mess with its invasion of Ukraine. There is plenty of room in Russia so p[lease explain why Putin feels the need to take sovereign Ukraine territory?

a reply to: Xcathdra

First chemical attack was carried out in Mariupol on May 6.

The leaders of the "Donetsk People's Republic" claimed that self-defense forces in Mariupol came under a chemical attack when the City Council building was being stormed by Kyiv-controlled armed units.

KyivPost

“The defenders of the City Council have left the contaminated area. Many of them had their breathing systems damaged, which is likely to have consequences and probably be a danger to their lives,” the statement says.

InSerbia

a reply to: Vovin

Hide what truth? What are you rambling about? Have you never seen weapons before?

Well that them there weapons...wow!

Now had you read the post I was replying to you wouldn't have had to ask such a ridiculous question.

That last one, is that a truck with an AA gun slapped on it, or is that a Russian T-90 MBT?

Well it doesn't actually matter because the pro Russians have it, and the post I was replying to said they only had a couple tanks and a few old rifles that some of them didn't work.

None of those indicate any shred of evidence towards what you are imposing. You fail to understand that the world (as you put it) knows that Ukraine is a top global arms exporter, and most of the arms that they produce are small arms. Small arms based on Soviet designs. Russia was once in the USSR, you know.

What am I imposing?

Is it the fact that the separatists have more than just a few weapons that hardly work?

Because that is what the post was about, or do you see something I don't?

You want to see some Russian tanks that the rebels are using? You should look at the IS-3 and T-54 tanks that the rebels fixed after sitting at museums for decades. The IS-2 /IS-3 was rolling through Berlin back in 1945.

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Again not once did I say anything about Russian tanks or anything close to that in my post, because you seem to be seeing only what you want to see and not what was said.

a reply to: stanislas

Tell me why people should die for this cause? I want everyone to give me a reason why people should die?

Now wouldn't that be a question best answered by Putin, because without him we wouldn't have this going on now would we?

Tell me why people should die for this cause? I want everyone to give me a reason why people should die? If thy are against the government should they die and is it ok to die for the cause? Tell me?

Again wouldn't that be another question best asked to Putin?

a reply to: maghun

First chemical attack was carried out in Mariupol on May 6.

So say the separatists.

Now the first link to the Kyiv Post states...

No confirmation of this information from other sources is available to Interfax-Ukraine.

www.kyivpost.com...

So the only source is the pro Russian separatists...Gotcha.

And the second one pretty much parrots the first one, so which of these is supposed to show proof that was done?

a reply to: maghun

Trying to use Ukraine media in the manner you are is disingenuous at best.

The paper does not state when the chemical attack occurs in the manner you are trying to present. The headline of the article uses the world "claim", which should be clue #1.

Chemical weapons were not used.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: maghun

First chemical attack was carried out in Mariupol on May 6.

So say the separatists.

Now the first link to the Kyiv Post states...

No confirmation of this information from other sources is available to Interfax-Ukraine.

www.kyivpost.com...

So the only source is the pro Russian separatists...Gotcha.

And the second one pretty much parrots the first one, so which of these is supposed to show proof that was done?

Yet you have never stated what sources you are willing to accept. In fact, you've denounced every source ever provided that does not agree with your opinion. So why do you act like your opinion is somehow superior to first hand account, video footage, and eastern mainstream and rebel media? What credentials do you hold to make such claims?

Crimea is another serbia, copy paste scenario. Everybody is criminal for USA (there is articles from USA that claims all are criminals), even the unborn children... Now we try to force all european governments, with all means / articles, petitions, emails, everything. Because this agenda, must stop and I hope the kiev criminal acts, to be judged and billed with the war crimes they've done. Its not 1 or 2, if nobody believes articles, there are so many video footage.

I truly belief that all this fiasco, is because they want to provoke Russia, Russia is the target and they kill as a bait all this people.

If nothing happens, this thing will escalate, now Russia with all bricks will create a new world bank! You know that? Next week they sign the treatment and that is against USA world bank.. Now will have 2 world banks.. lol

a reply to: Vovin

Yet you have never stated what sources you are willing to accept. In fact, you've denounced every source ever provided that does not agree with your opinion. So why do you act like your opinion is somehow superior to first hand account, video footage, and eastern mainstream and rebel media? What credentials do you hold to make such claims?

Wow you really have a problem with someone asking questions don't you?

No, I don't agree with the crap that you and others are trying to portray as the truth from Russian media which has been shown to be lying and using old photos to back their claim on numerous occasions.

Interesting but my credentials are of none of your concern as I am not the topic of this thread.

And when did I say my opinion was superior to anyone elses on this site...I didn't so please quit trying to put words into my mouth.

a reply to: Ploutonas

and yet Russia is the one who invaded Ukraine and who illegally occupies sovereign Ukrainian territory.


what other excuses are you guys going to try and come up with next? You've already tried the Nazi / Socialist / Fascist bs, which did not work when it was discovered Russia has more of those in their government than Ukraine currently does. Then it was "ethnic Russians", then NATO, then the illegal collapse of the Soviet Union, and then.......

Do you honestly not understand just how ridiculous your arguments are? You guys change them every other week while using lies put out by Russia, and you even maintain those lies, even after Russia gets caught in those lies and admits it lied.

Are you really that desperate to try and defend Putin's aggression, an aggression based on his ego and how he "thinks" he should be viewed as opposed to the 2 bit dictator he actually is?

Facts after facts after facts and yet you guys still make the same argument using the same false / debunked information.

If the mentality demonstrated by some is an indication of the overall Russian mindset then its no wonder how Putin came to power and why Russia is in the state it is in.

a reply to: Ploutonas

Everybody is criminal for USA (there is articles from USA that claims all are criminals), even the unborn children... Now we try to force all european governments, with all means / articles, petitions, emails, everything.

Care to provide anything that will back this up?

Because this agenda, must stop and I hope the kiev criminal acts, to be judged and billed with the war crimes they've done. Its not 1 or 2, if nobody believes articles, there are so many video footage.

What agenda?

You have a country that was invaded and part of it annexed, the only agenda here is Ukraine wants it's sovereign country back...all of it so that's the agenda. And the video footage you talk about has been shown on many occasions to be well less than credible.

If nothing happens, this thing will escalate, now Russia with all bricks will create a new world bank! You know that? Next week they sign the treatment and that is against USA world bank.. Now will have 2 world banks.. lol

Now with world bank shouldn't the world actually be part of it and not just Russia and a couple countries?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin

Yet you have never stated what sources you are willing to accept. In fact, you've denounced every source ever provided that does not agree with your opinion. So why do you act like your opinion is somehow superior to first hand account, video footage, and eastern mainstream and rebel media? What credentials do you hold to make such claims?

Wow you really have a problem with someone asking questions don't you?

No, I don't agree with the crap that you and others are trying to portray as the truth from Russian media which has been shown to be lying and using old photos to back their claim on numerous occasions.

Interesting but my credentials are of none of your concern as I am not the topic of this thread.

And when did I say my opinion was superior to anyone elses on this site...I didn't so please quit trying to put words into my mouth.

Then stop denouncing every source that's posted. Your opinion doesn't matter, but it does matter when you spam legitimate dialectics with your incessant complaints about how you think sources don't count because they are from the front lines.

I already complained to staff about your misinformation campaign that you've been carrying out here and they say you're just posting your opinion. Well now I'm posting my opinion. I'm tired of your unproductive crap. Take it elsewhere.

EDIT: your post above mine clearly outlines your trolling method. You demand sources, then you denounce any sources provided. And your justification? It's apparent all fake Russian propaganda. Which is impossible for you to prove.

Your belief that none of these sources is legitimate puts you in the minority, not the majority. Most people here believe in objective reporting with evidence, not media that reports statements prepared by sketchy government officials.

And I asked you a legitimate question: what do you consider to be a legitimate source? Name three.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

you can translate this article, speaks about the matter, that USA legitimizing all war crimes against innocent civilians, etc, etc.. And there is many articles that do that, I will try to find 1 more.

link

Also we have that... link

And I will pm u 1 more, because its a bit, hard...

Also since I ve made a message with links, take some fresh news link

a reply to: Xcathdra

The source wasn't coincidence.

Even the ukrainian media had to write about the Mariupol chemical attack, guess why? First source is from a country which is bombing their own people with NATO support and weapons (chemical too), second source (Serbia) was bombed by the same bombs, this is why the difference...

I pay attention to the mischief-makers too:

July 9 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, Assistant Treasury Secretary Daniel Glaser, and Assistant Secretary of Defense Derek Chollet testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in Washington about Russia and developments in Ukraine. (This is part one of the hearing. Source: Bloomberg)

Nuland, Glaser, Chollet Testify on Ukraine (Pt. 1)

Libya was betrayed by western agent Medvedev (medved means bear), but Putin came back and helped out Syria against western terrorists. When in Ukraine an armed coup with ultra-nationalist support ousted the elected president, Russia reacted very quickly in Crimea and the plans of the western puppets collapsed. The rest will become history about how russian residents of Malorus (the name of Ukraine before 20th century) defeat the second nazi occupation of russian territories. Is the history repeats itself?

The so called terrorists resisted an army of 15.000 supported with neo-nazi ultra-nationalist volunteers despite the fact that the commander of the "Vostok" (east) battalion, Alexander Khodakovsky was a traitor, SBU(CIA) agent.

Slowly clears up indignation and rage of Kurginyan, it seems, is the real cause. The armament of the new Russia were delivered: heavy weapons, effective weapons. But Strelkov constantly asserted that little, old, unusable. Gubarev is confirmed. Kurginyan, seems to have decided that they blatantly lie. And the answer is simply opens. All heavy weapons in Slavyansk in the end did not get. And settled in Donetsk, in the hands of Khodakovsky. He was taken away not just the best, and took away almost everything. In Slavyansk, where the weapons were actually needed, got crumbs. While Khodakovsky was useless, and periodically sent to slaughter people entrusted to him. Just because Khodakovsky so quickly escaped in Mariupol. It is not enough that a thief, he is constantly doing harm to Slavyansk, all done in order the city fell. I hope that Khodakovsky will be caught and hanged. Next to his current colleagues from the SBU and its owner Akhmetov.

there seems to be a problem with this alexander khodakovsky

What will happen now, when the self-defence militia is stronger day by day?