where was "god"?

More precisely, where was Jehovah god. (After all, to call Jehovah "God" is like calling your workmate "Human".)

Now a lot of people believe that Jehovah is the only god, the one true god, so my question for them is where was he for thousands of years of human history?

See, humans worshiped a great many gods for thousands of years in pre-history. Then writing started, so lets just stick with that part, as that part we can prove. The Egyptians, Babylonians, Sumerians, and Assyrians all wrote of their gods easily a thousand years before the Jews were even formed. The Rig Veda, the oldest written holy book still used, was formed around 1700 bce. The Torah was first written around 950 bce.

So where was Jehovah? I mean, if Im the only god, the one true god, I certainly would have left a mark, even in pre-history, yet we don't see it. As we trace religions, we very clearly see polytheism give way to monotheism. Not the other way around.

I find it interesting that Jehovah just pops up thousands of years after the other gods have been running around and declares himself the one and only. If that were true, couldnt he have done it far sooner?

So where was Jehovah?

He (be it Allah, YHWH or just plain "God") did not just "pop up". God did not arrive when the Torah did, so it being written 950 bce does no mean the He had hidden until then.

I do not think ANY religion's holy scriptures is supposed to mark the arrival of their particular god.

originally posted by: DupontDeux
He (be it Allah, YHWH or just plain "God") did not just "pop up". God did not arrive when the Torah did, so it being written 950 bce does no mean the He had hidden until then.

I do not think ANY religion's holy scriptures is supposed to mark the arrival of their particular god.

is that cause there isn,t one?cause you ask me its just more stories with no proof.

a reply to: stormson

You're basic premise is false. There are no gods - gods are man made entities to make man feel good about his #ty existence. They are as real as the tooth fairly! Those that disagree are mentally healthy. However when you have over 7 billion people on this planet, it's blatantly obvious that a significant proportion are mentally ill.

a reply to: DupontDeux

so why was there no mention of this one true god for thousands of years?

i mean, if im the one and only, im certainly gonna put the kibosh on all those tiny tribes with their silly notion of many gods long before they grow up and become civilizations.

think about how much easier it would have been. as soon as egypt starts, pop up, show your the only god, and be done with it. why wait a thousand years to pick one desert tribe out of all the civs on the planet, and then perform your miracles.

it doesnt make logical sense.

but the question is, what was he doing during all the history of polytheism? twiddling his thumbs waiting for a back water tribe to be ready?

dont get me wrong, im not saying the god Jehovah doesnt exist, or that any of the gods dont exist. im just asking where he was for the majority of human history.

originally posted by: sparky31

originally posted by: DupontDeux
He (be it Allah, YHWH or just plain "God") did not just "pop up". God did not arrive when the Torah did, so it being written 950 bce does no mean the He had hidden until then.

I do not think ANY religion's holy scriptures is supposed to mark the arrival of their particular god.

is that cause there isn,t one?cause you ask me its just more stories with no proof.

That is a matter of belief. My point was, that using (the age of) scriptures to date when any given god "popped into existence" is just silly.

OP could instead meaningfully have asked why no one thought of writing said scriptures until before. That would be valid.

a reply to: MarsIsRed

the question isnt whether a god or gods exist.

after all, as a concept they do. whether they are truly gods or not is for you to decide.

the question is if Jehovah god is the only god, as many people believe, where was he for most of human history?

originally posted by: stormson
a reply to: DupontDeux

so why was there no mention of this one true god for thousands of years?

Well, one possibility is that there actually was a lot mention of that one true god, but that man - fallible man - have lost the true word of God due to interpretation, translation and what have you. Actually, that is precisely the premise of one of the major world religions.

Ask man to do, say and remember one thing, and given enough time, he is bound to do, say and remember something else. That sound reasonable to me.

I became agnostic 19 years ago today, due to an earth shattering event in my life. During that time I have looked at several different religions. While I still have no problem believing that there is something bigger than I in the Universe, I haven't found the religion for me that welcomes it, and whatever it might bring to humanity. The one thing that has made sense to me in these years of study is the Wiccan's "Do what you will, but harm ye none." I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but the day I depart this earth, I expect nothing more than an oven, and my ashes to be scattered over a body of water.

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: sparky31

originally posted by: DupontDeux
He (be it Allah, YHWH or just plain "God") did not just "pop up". God did not arrive when the Torah did, so it being written 950 bce does no mean the He had hidden until then.

I do not think ANY religion's holy scriptures is supposed to mark the arrival of their particular god.

is that cause there isn,t one?cause you ask me its just more stories with no proof.

That is a matter of belief. My point was, that using (the age of) scriptures to date when any given god "popped into existence" is just silly.

OP could instead meaningfully have asked why no one thought of writing said scriptures until before. That would be valid.

not really.

see, we cant know what was before writing, except by conjecture. we see figurines of pregnant women in special places and assume that means there was a type of goddess worship, but we cant know for sure.

however, when its written down, we have a definite start point. we may disagree on what the words really mean, but we can boil it down to this god did this or that.

now when i say "popped into existence" i man just that. ismael from moby dick didnt exist till he was written down. of course he could have, but that would be conjecture. we dont know.

the same is true for the god Jehovah. over a thousand years of writing, and no mention of him till one tribe did. i find that strange.

If there was only one true god, why wasnt he written about sooner? why the absence? now absence of proof is not proof of absence, but i do find it curious that a jealous god would let all those "pretend gods" rule the world for a thousand years before showing up.

a reply to: Sparky31 and MarsIsRed

I do wish I had your certainty. Of course there is no proof of God, Science has no way of determining anything outside of the natural world. But, there is absolutely no proof that there isn't a God. Based on the question of proof, the Christians and Atheists are in the same boat.

Leaving proof, we can look at the question of evidence. Some of the evidence comes from many different sources over the first 300 years A.D. Not only in the writings, but in the effects which came from it. Tree branches bending back and forth are evidence of wind, but not proof. You may declare it flimsy, but it does exist. I have never heard of any evidence whatsoever that there isn't a God.

Finally, we reach logical argument. Christians have theirs, I suppose Atheists have theirs. But simply arguing that the Christian arguments could be false is to misunderstand what an argument is. It's not a logical proof, it's not supposed to be. What is the logical argument to show there is no God?

The fact that there is evidence and arguments for the Christian position, takes it out of the realm of mental illness. People who use that line are simply saying "I can't show you to be wrong, so I'll call you names." By the way, under that test, 90% of the world is mentally ill. It seems more intuitive to say that the 90% are healthy and the 10% are mentally ill.

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: stormson
a reply to: DupontDeux

so why was there no mention of this one true god for thousands of years?

Well, one possibility is that there actually was a lot mention of that one true god, but that man - fallible man - have lost the true word of God due to interpretation, translation and what have you. Actually, that is precisely the premise of one of the major world religions.

Ask man to do, say and remember one thing, and given enough time, he is bound to do, say and remember something else. That sound reasonable to me.

see, and that is why i rely on the written text.

no where before the torah is there a mention of one true god, but all mention many gods.

the written text, especially on stone, is hard to alter.

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: stormson
a reply to: DupontDeux

so why was there no mention of this one true god for thousands of years?

Well, one possibility is that there actually was a lot mention of that one true god, but that man - fallible man - have lost the true word of God due to interpretation, translation and what have you. Actually, that is precisely the premise of one of the major world religions.

Ask man to do, say and remember one thing, and given enough time, he is bound to do, say and remember something else. That sound reasonable to me.

Actually, much was written down before the Torah, The Old Testament, etc, and much of what is written in those books are stories from the ancients. Amazing what you can find out with the interwebs at your fingertips.

Some might say its because of evolution, realization or purpose.

The one god is being challenged. Is there opposing forces. Are his characteristics right.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: stormson
a reply to: DupontDeux

so why was there no mention of this one true god for thousands of years?

Well, one possibility is that there actually was a lot mention of that one true god, but that man - fallible man - have lost the true word of God due to interpretation, translation and what have you. Actually, that is precisely the premise of one of the major world religions.

Ask man to do, say and remember one thing, and given enough time, he is bound to do, say and remember something else. That sound reasonable to me.

Actually, much was written down before the Torah, The Old Testament, etc, and much of what is written in those books are stories from the ancients. Amazing what you can find out with the interwebs at your fingertips.

care to give a source for writings of the "one true god" before the torah? do they pre-date the egyptians or the rig veda?

again, if i was the one true god, and a jealous god at that, i certainly wouldnt let all of humanity worship a multitude of gods without putting me at the top.

originally posted by: stormson

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: stormson
a reply to: DupontDeux

so why was there no mention of this one true god for thousands of years?

Well, one possibility is that there actually was a lot mention of that one true god, but that man - fallible man - have lost the true word of God due to interpretation, translation and what have you. Actually, that is precisely the premise of one of the major world religions.

Ask man to do, say and remember one thing, and given enough time, he is bound to do, say and remember something else. That sound reasonable to me.

Actually, much was written down before the Torah, The Old Testament, etc, and much of what is written in those books are stories from the ancients. Amazing what you can find out with the interwebs at your fingertips.

care to give a source for writings of the "one true god" before the torah? do they pre-date the egyptians or the rig veda?

again, if i was the one true god, and a jealous god at that, i certainly wouldnt let all of humanity worship a multitude of gods without putting me at the top.

from memory, nothing was written about a one true god, but the stories in the the Torah, and the Old Testament were written about many years before, concerning the great flood. Without whipping out Wikipedia, I think it was the Sumerians.

Not wishing to get into a debate/argument over the existence of god, I would like to just offer an answer to the title of your thread.

God was in verbal stories passed from generation to generation, in many different forms. Just a guess of course, I wasn't there.

Or we could say that god was always there, it was humanity who needed to 'evolve' in order to 'discover' god's existence.

originally posted by: kalunom
Not wishing to get into a debate/argument over the existence of god, I would like to just offer an answer to the title of your thread.

God was in verbal stories passed from generation to generation, in many different forms. Just a guess of course, I wasn't there.

Or we could say that god was always there, it was humanity who needed to 'evolve' in order to 'discover' god's existence.

Or God was never there, and the stories of creation, etc, were just that, stories. Traditions handed down verbally, generation after generation, to explain how we came to be here.

originally posted by: stormson
no where before the torah is there a mention of one true god, but all mention many gods.

the written text, especially on stone, is hard to alter.

Even harder, apparently, to research.

See, Bel Marduk was a "one true god" before Yahweh.

Demanding Jehova's name before the Hebrews is a little too much. Languages change, right? So do beliefs.

Yahweh didn't just pop up with the Torah. Yahweh was a minor god in the Canaanite religion before Judaism. He morphed into El (the head god) in the Canaanite religion, the result of which is Judaism.

The idea of Yahweh as El has precedent - Marduk again. Yahweh's evolution to the Big Boss is paralleled by Marduk (a thousand years earlier) who, in the Enuma Elish, is revealed to be the personification of all the old Babylonian (Sumerian) gods.

In fact, the Canaanite religion has direct and indiputable ties to the Babylonian. These people spoke different languages though.

It might be that Yahweh can be traced all the way back to An (Anu) - the Sumerian Big Boss. We need more evidence from the Canaanites to make that connection and at present there is precious little.

On the other hand, there's certainly a lot more than you make it out to be in this thread.

Harte

originally posted by: charles1952
I have never heard of any evidence whatsoever that there isn't a God.

Well, that's probably because before you could gather evidence against something, that something would first have to be established to some degree. What sort of evidence could you possibly present Against Santa Claus unless of course Santa Claus is first established to be Something??? What exactly would qualify as evidence when the subject itself is Fictional???

Finally, we reach logical argument. Christians have theirs, I suppose Atheists have theirs. But simply arguing that the Christian arguments could be false is to misunderstand what an argument is. It's not a logical proof, it's not supposed to be. What is the logical argument to show there is no God?

Whether you realize it or not your language reveals your bias. The bold section above, by the addition of the word "suppose" makes your comparison automatically one sided. You take a position of a neutral 3rd party in saying Christians have this and Atheists have this, but it's only the Atheist Argument that requires you to suppose anything. Why is that??? If you are truly neutral both sides simply have and argument, neither of more or less value to the other.

The argument Against God is being made by arguing against whatever evidence is being put forward by those who claim evidence for God. That could be the only argument after all since it's been established that there can be NO PROOF for either side. Had there not been the notion of Evidence for God first taking place, there obviously would not be an argument against it.

The fact that there is evidence and arguments for the Christian position, takes it out of the realm of mental illness. People who use that line are simply saying "I can't show you to be wrong, so I'll call you names." By the way, under that test, 90% of the world is mentally ill. It seems more intuitive to say that the 90% are healthy and the 10% are mentally ill.

Whether there is actually evidence has to be established first of all. That is the argument. (see the section above)

Simply arguing a position about something by providing evidence and then debating that evidence I don't think qualifies anyone as Mentally Ill. Mentally Ill would be to simply conclude such an argument as either True or False without any evidence or debate at all.