SWAT team throws stun grenade in toddler's crib

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: butcherguy

Those are the really embarrassing extremes to show how little work and effort is being put into the process, in many areas, beyond just 'acquire and fire' for the warrant and door kickers to go kick some.

With each new news item, I'm even more down-hearted at how quickly we are slipping. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

How can this be justified??

Woman’s Eyes “Blown to Pieces” by Cop With Gunpowder Powered Pepper Gun

Monique Hernandez was pulled over in February of 2012 by Beaumont police officer, Enoch Clark.

When Clark attempted to subdue Hernandez, he said she ‘resisted.’ Although the dashcam footage tells a different tale, Clark said that in order to get her in handcuffs, he had to use his department-issued JPX gunpowder-propelled pepper spray weapon and fire it less than a foot away from her face.

The gunpowder powered JPX Pepper Gun launches OC (pepper spray) at 405 mph. The results from firing the gun at such a close proximity were catastrophic.

I don't understand how anyone can be part of this kind of stuff and feel justified...

a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

Staff action will not be discussed on the boards.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

Staff action will not be discussed on the boards.

That's fine. You can send me a U2U pointing it out.

Which do you think is more likely?

A. Some Police Chief Commissioner guy, pulling out his hair shouting "HE DID WHAT?"

or

B. Damage control has already kicked in, questions like "How do we make this to go away quietly?"

This is the next level of the problem.

a reply to: CornShucker

Yup.. I'm familiar with that case. I wrote a thread on it.

Pepper-Spray Brutality May Leave Cops Liable

It was one of the worse cases I've read about for punitive and near sadistic use of the pepper non-lethal weapons. Really horrible.

a reply to: Rodinus

If there ever was a gun nut out there it was me, and on top of that I work private security. Now with that being said I mostly agree with you. Police in the USA have become very heavy fisted over the last couple of decades. There is no need to use a stun grenade on a non-violent offender. On top of that it shou;d be enough of a suprise just to knock the door in and yell police. You have the element of suprise and should the offender have a gun you can shoot first. A stun grenade has no place where there is such a high probability of collateral damage. That being said, i do not believe that the police were aware of the presence of the child before the breach. Personally i believe that responsibility falls on many of the people in law enforcement. I hate to say it but whoever threw the grenade should have some SERIOUS reprucussions and the family should sue the department.

originally posted by: thisguyrighthere

Police said a multijurisdictional drug unit issued a warrant and organized the SWAT operation

Why doesnt the media ever ask these cops the simple question "was it worth it?"

Every time some innocent suffers or a pig takes a few in the face and leave a widow and fatherless children behind simply ask "was it worth it?" if only so some spokesman can go on record saying that somebodys death or disfigurement was totally worth taking a bag of dope off the street.

I want them to say right to the camera that your life is worth less than a plant.

Amen brother. I haven't seen good sense spoken like that around here about this subject in too long.

a reply to: Divin3F3nrus

Totally agree with your post, except:

From what I understand a police officer went to the house undercover to buy the weed, and then the SWAT team returned later that night at 3am.
Therefore you would expect that the family, and consequently the child, were there when the initial undercover officer bought the weed. Hence, it should have been reported and known that there was a baby in the house. Maybe it was just a breakdown in communication, but either way the onus of the error is definitely on the police and SWAT team.

I wasn't aware the police even used grenades during raids. I thought those were deployed in riot situations.

Tragic story. Poor little guy.

a reply to: trollz

SO, an anonymous source claims a drug deal took place, and that and that alone is reason to go in with stun grenades on a no-knock raid? No investigation, no follow-up, nothing? That's irresponsible. Assuming no child is there simply because no toys are visible outside isn't responsible, either. In a big city like Atlanta, most places you'd have to put them away to avoid theft. Plus, since when is a drug deal in a home reason enough for a no-knock raid? Were they expecting tons of something to be found there? Not likely. Likely it was a report of much smaller scale dealing, and the police went overboard. I can see some case where a no-knock raid might be warranted, but in a home?

All that said, if these people did have drugs there, then they did place the child in danger, because drug dealers and danger go hand in hand. Rival dealers, or angry customers, could posse a threat. Shouldn't have been from the cops, though.

a reply to: trollz


I was waiting for this story to hit the mainstream media. I posted it on facebook after police state USA posted. It took or 3 days. When it first happened the captain was in complete support of the tactic and said they'd do it again.

Then it hits the headline, not because of what happened, but because the officers started to recieve death threats.

This is another ridiculous use of a no knock raid and dont let the media fool you. They did a no knock raid because the guy had a gun while committing a felony. He didnt try to use it and probably had it for self protection even if he was wrong for selling drugs, but he became a potentially dangerous criminal not because he acted as one, but simply because he had drugs and a gun at the same time.

Now disregard him because it was his sister and laws family, who were forced to stay with him after their house burned, whose baby was injured (and honestly probably killed) to the point of inducing a coma (lost a lungs function, burned face, likely defended, possibly blinded and damaged brainwise). The guy who sold drugs from the house was not there, nor were there any drugs. He was arrested later at a different house.

I think what the woman said about staying there that says so much about this country and the struggles of americans in this economy. They were staying there and she said they made sure any drug activity was kept out of sight and sound of the children.
These are just people living in hard times between a rock and a hars place and another family member making money selling drugs. I am not saying I support drug use or selling, but but the government doesnt care about our health, they care that this guy was making money behind the governments back. If there is a way to drag yourself out of poverty behind the governments back then youcan bet your ass its illegal.

Then the cherry on top, trying to charge the man who sold drugs from the house earlier with the injuries the police caused to his nephew. The chief called him (drug dealers) domestic terrorists. Selling drugs to people who buy them (all walks of life, not just junkies, but house wives with kids and people who have to work three jobs to get by) = equal terrorist. Throwing a grenade in a babys crib in the middle of the night and destroying an innocent family because someone at sometime sold a small amount of drugs ? A-okay.

The cops arent on leave even, and they very likely killed this baby, and they are trying to pass the blame.

a reply to: trollz

I really want to cry when I read or hear something like this. This animal/bad nature of man is destroying my very being.

I agree with the first posters, they should know better and the have been trained better, haven't they?

a reply to: BangoDukeINF

if you read the article in full, there is a comment in there about "reports of assault style weapons on the premises"
So the scumbag will come back with the same tired lame A$# line they always use.....

"To insure officer safety........"

Maybe it's about time that the people said " To insure personal safety........."

Seriously these no neck adrenaline junkies that got bullied in grade school need to be held accountable for their actions, yes, some protections for them for actions taken in the line of duty, but this kind of thing is just senseless.

Which is what should start happening. You can take this to the bank: If I'm the parent of this kid, I'm finding names and family members and going after them until they kill me or lock me up.

I get not all LEO are bad but it seems more and more it's guilty until proven guilty.

How do they not know who's in the house before a raid??? They get their intelligence last week they not bother to follow up before the mission took place? Seems like a good way to get killed if you're thinking there might be resistance. Or did they simply not care and were "sending a message to drug dealers"?

Sad that these mass shootings only involve innocents. Looking forward to the day someone snaps and takes out a police station with a bunch of crooked cops. Oh, if the good guys get killed... well maybe shouldn't be protecting those that are just as criminal as the "bad guys".

Heads should roll... literally.


*Yay, I'm on a watch list now.

originally posted by: violet
I wasn't aware the police even used grenades during raids. I thought those were deployed in riot situations.

Tragic story. Poor little guy.

If they have it they'll use it. That's why opposition to them tooling up with military hardware is as strong as it is.

Once they have something two things happen; first all the GI Joe wannabes want to play with it and second they spent so much money on whatever it was that if they don't use it and make a big deal about it when they use it the taxpayers will question the expense.

Police are not mature enough nor responsible enough to have grenades and armored vehicles.

Well this story just enraged me. What the hell was the drooling moron with the grenade thinking?

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: CornShucker

Yup.. I'm familiar with that case. I wrote a thread on it.

Pepper-Spray Brutality May Leave Cops Liable

It was one of the worse cases I've read about for punitive and near sadistic use of the pepper non-lethal weapons. Really horrible.

Shoulda known...

Do you get more than 24 hours to a day? [Big Grin] I don't know how you read and post on so many varied topics with such clarity and insight and still have time for a Life!

On a more serious note, the video demonstration on your thread is big time spooky. For once, I'm speechless...

As to the poor little kid this thread is about, I find myself thinking of this song more and more often. There are way, way too many little kids out there that don't have much of a life. This tragedy is really depressing!

a reply to: trollz

I have nothing against cops. The actions of one or some are not a Gage to weigh them all by.

This cop needs to be fired. There is no reason he had to chuck it in a room without being damn sure a kid wasn't in there since they had to have known kids could be in there. The possibility existed and they knew that.

I hope the kid survives and isn't badly scarred for life. This is where I pray human medical knowledge has progressed enough to help him make a full recovery.

I hope this cop gets what's coming to him. He may feel bad for it, but ignoring your training gets people killed. He could have gotten a fellow LEO killed by ignoring his training in another situation. They shouldn't give him special treatment. He needs to be fired.

As a man, he needs to apologize to the family and take an active effort to help this kid for the rest of his life.

The parents, need to get off drugs if they were using them. If not I'm just sorry for them.

Drug addiction is not a crime. I don't care what society says. Its a sickness at worst or a recreational activity at best.

Legalize it.

originally posted by: HAARPwatcher
Just goes to show you how poorly trained the keepers of the peace are now a-days.

Keepers of the TPTB's peace maybe...

Everything is backwards & upside down so we get the exact opposite of peace:



I don't believe the training is where the problem lies.

LEO work should be the most ethical profession in society.

Just the opposite seems to be true just like the SIG quote says.

The corruption lies deep within the system going all the way up the chain according to many LEO's:

I just recently retired as an Officer in New Hampshire. I have been offered numerous other LE jobs and I'm here to tell you that I will never ever put a uniform on again. It is not the public that makes the job so degrading but the administration.I Wish I Never Became a Police Officer

I can only speak of my experience as an officer. It has been said here many times and I agree 100% that the most stress you will encounter in this job comes from within your own department. 99% of this stress comes from administration (puppet chiefs, arrogant supervisors, selfish agendas, etc.). More and more police departments are managed like a business instead of a brotherhood.

I Wish I Never Became a Police Officer

As a former officer I can only tell you what I have seen in a larger city department. You go into the job believing you are the good guys and see the officers who are the cowards and the criminals in uniform are the ones who get promoted and become your bosses. Even if you try to do the right thing and be a good officer you will always be a threat to the cowards and criminals who got promoted. Go into this profession with your eyes wide open, there are a lot of good cops and just as many bad. If you believe that being the good cop will get you anywhere you are sadly mistaken.

If you try to expose these bad cops they will destroy your career in a heartbeat and or get you hurt (call for back-up and nobody comes!) Even as the good cop you have to look the other way or you will be destroyed, It eats at your gut every day. Give me the dirtbags on the street anyday.. they don't cause the stress, the political machine and lust for power cause the stress. I was so glad to get out the day my pension kicked in.

I Wish I Never Became a Police Officer