How Lending A Friend Your Car, Then Going to Bed Can Land You a Life Prison Sentence

demongoat

Indigo5
reply to post by onequestion

 

I read the details of the case expecting you to have omitted some important part that explains his life sentence, but nope, your OP is dead on. A travesty and utter BS. He needs to be pardoned ASAP and the Felony Murder Rule needs to be scrapped. He gave his roommates the keys to his car and went to bed. Now he is serving life in prison...Florida Prosecutors tried tog et him to take a plea bargain of 10 years, he chose to go to trial, thinking appropriately...WTF did I do? 10 Years?...they obviously felt POed he didn't just accept his unjust punishment and gave him LIFE...Just utter BS.

what is with people? he knew his friends were going to use his car to commit a crime, he did nothing to stop it, he lent his car to them to do it.

do you really think people who know a crime was going to be committed not deserve punishment for not reporting it? he claimed he thought they were joking, that is an excuse a weak one.

honestly you people are so far down the rabbit hole that you apologize for criminals now.

I couldn't agree with you more.

In this case, it's not the fault of the criminals, no, it's the LAW that's archaic, and a Judge that needs to be recalled.

Seriously? The law was made because home invasions became the new 'smash and grab' in Florida. The statitistics on these burglaries got out of control in the past several years. Something had to be done to stop this rash of new types of robberies, and harsher sentences were deemed the route to go.

The problem is not the law, nor the Judge, but the people that commit the crimes, dare I say, just as with gun laws. It's not the guns killing people, but the people behind them. Stop blaming everyone and everything, except the criminals?!

This case is fairly cut and dried, however, for most people, it simply won't ever matter to them until it is their family or loved one that is laying dead somewhere, and they are screaming for "Justice".

They need to step out of their own shoes and try on someone elses for a change, get out of that simplistic, one-way thinking that the laws are the problem.

In this case, the system worked just fine. He was offered a plea bargain, and in his arrogance, thought he could beat the wrap, just because he was home in bed asleep. Then they neglect to tell you the rest of the story in the OP.

In summation, he was lucky to get such a generous plea deal. He should have taken it, knowing full well he was guilty. He would be out now, and this would be a non-story. He is lucky he didn't get the death penalty, as he is in one of the few states that still has it, and his crime rated a death penalty sentence.

Either people are not reading beyond the first post, which is evident in some of the drive-by replies, or, they lack the understanding of the system of laws and the full impact of what this person really did.

There will be no changing their minds, but, it is scary that some of them may be allowed to vote. At this point, however, I am even questioning that.

reply to post by demongoat

“I honestly thought they were going to get food,” he said of the men who used his car, all of whom had attended the nightlong party at Mr. Holle’s house, as had Jessica Snyder.

“When they actually mentioned what was going on, I thought it was a joke,” Mr. Holle added, referring to the plan to steal the Snyders’ safe. “I thought they were just playing around. I was just very naïve. Plus from being drinking that night, I just didn’t understand what was going on.”

www.nytimes.com...

Aside from him being drunk and thinking it was a joke...

Where did they say they intended to murder someone?

He is serving a life sentence for Felony Murder.

Indigo5
reply to post by demongoat

 

“I honestly thought they were going to get food,” he said of the men who used his car, all of whom had attended the nightlong party at Mr. Holle’s house, as had Jessica Snyder.

“When they actually mentioned what was going on, I thought it was a joke,” Mr. Holle added, referring to the plan to steal the Snyders’ safe. “I thought they were just playing around. I was just very naïve. Plus from being drinking that night, I just didn’t understand what was going on.”

www.nytimes.com...

Aside from him being drunk and thinking it was a joke...

Where did they say they intended to murder someone?

He is serving a life sentence for Felony Murder.

here you go, they didn't say murder, but he did say they told him they might have to knock her out.

But Mr. Holle did testify that he had been told it might be necessary to “knock out” Jessica Snyder. Mr. Holle is 25 now, a tall, lean and lively man with a rueful sense of humor, alert brown eyes and an unusually deep voice. In a spare office at the prison here, he said that he had not taken the talk of a burglary seriously.
Serving Life for Providing Car to Killers

drunk or not, thought they were joking or not, if they told him that he should have said no and not given them the keys.
he should have manned up admitted his part, and took the ten year plea deal offered to him.

hounddoghowlie

drunk or not, thought they were joking or not, if they told him that he should have said no and not given them the keys.
he should have manned up admitted his part, and took the ten year plea deal offered to him.

edit on 14-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

SO...If they thought he was guilty of Felony Murder, why did they offer him a plea deal of 10 years?

reply to post by Indigo5

The murder was an unintended consequence of the home invasion. As has been pointed out, Florida law considers that the term 'home invasion' considers this crime will be committed when the homeowners are home.

I quoted in a previous post that it was already a Capital offense, and, that adding a death, intended or not, further increased the direness of the crime. Federal Murder, which can carry the death penalty.

I also pointed out that the natural evolvement that has taken place in home invasion crimes was, where the criminals used to brutalize, and/or tie up the victims or otherwise restrain them, has evolved to leaving no witnesses behind. This was some years ago, read about home invasions in 2013, 2014, to see what I mean.

Regardless, he fomented the crime. Regardless of the unintended consequences, had he not fomented the crime, it likely would not have happened at all.

By his aiding and abetting, he enabled the death of the girl to occur. It was, more or less, by his hand, that it happened. It matters not that he was not physically there.

Had he either not lent the vehicle, or, reported the crime as it was afoot, the girl may be alive today. No matter how you look at it, he, aside from the people that actually did the motions, was just as guilty of the crime.

reply to post by Indigo5

Because, he willingly admitted his guilt. When you admit guilt, it's amazing how the courts will work with you.

However, when you fight the courts with a frivolous claim, they throw the book at you.

You surely have seen this before, where someone is grossly 'overcharged'. This is done for the sheer fact of having the ability to make deals. It sucks, but that's how it is. They overcharge you, then go into the back room, and start talking deals.

"If your client pleads guilty to A, D, H, we will say, 10 in prison, 5 on parole."

The attorney goes to the client. Then, returns with an answer.

It may go like this:

"My client will plead guilty to A, D, and T, but for a sentence of 5, parole for 5."

They go back and forth like this, depending on the prosecutor, the crime, and if the Judge will even agree to the deal.

Once a deal is reached, it's up to the client to accept it or not. It's only available for a certain time period. If the client refuses the deal, and decides to move forward with the case, he is warned by the DA in court and on record, that he will receive the maximum sentence allowable by law. If he accepts that warning, and goes to trial anyway, then he accepts that he may lose, and get the maximum sentence. It is at the end of trial, once found guilty, out of the overcharges, that the judge and DA have decided what the 'final' charges will be.

This may be totally different than the arrest charges, the arraignment charges, though they cannot add charges, they can remove them. So, out of 15 charges, you may end up being finally charged, then finally sentenced, for 3, 4, 2, or 1.

reply to post by Libertygal


So your saying they tried to threaten and intimidate him into a plea bargain?

I know they do that that's how they handled my case. I however took the plea bargain because I was able to see how the court system worked.

I'm in between on this case, at his age he could have been easily swayed by his peers.

The idea that prison is te answer is archaic and we should be past that at this point.

reply to post by Indigo5


I'll ask you the same question that I haven't received a response to for some reason.

If he had loaned his car to a falling down drunk friend and that friend ran over a 16 year old in a cross walk, would you still be defending him?

His friend still never meant to kill anyone. He was still in bed sleeping when the murder occurred. He still loaned his car to a friend knowing it was to be used for something illegal.

I will never understand the mind of a some people and it may be because I am a little afraid to try. How someone can defend this person is beyond me. But I am interested to hear the how's and why's of the arguments.

onequestion
reply to post by Libertygal

 

So your saying they tried to threaten and intimidate him into a plea bargain?

I know they do that that's how they handled my case. I however took the plea bargain because I was able to see how the court system worked.

I don't see how they intimidated nor threatened him. He admitted foreknowledge of the crime, and failed to report it. He admitted giving them the keys, this is known as aiding and abetting.

In any state in this country, knowing of a crime afoot and failing to report it allows that person to be charged with the crime as though they had committed it.

The fact that he aided and abetted, failed to report the crime that was afoot, and that someone died as result, unintended or not, the fact that they offered him such a generous plea bargain was surprising, really.

He should have taken it.

If anything, he had a good case for ineffective counsel, because I would wager, the weak excuse that he thought they were joking came from his attorney, along with the decision to take it trial and thinking he could win.

Not saying it did, but likely, that's where both things came from.

Private prisons for profit. That's all that is there to it.

reply to post by Merinda


Or callous criminal youth with total disregard for human life other than their own.

Either or.

seeker1963
reply to post by onequestion

 

It isn't about JUSTICE anymore!

It is about OPPRESSION and CONDITIONING we just damn well better accept it!

Hell, look at the children in our school systems that are getting tossed out for eating a poptart in such a way it looks like a GUN!!! OOOOOHHHHH SCARY!!!

The CORPORATE/PRIVATE prison system would be the first thing we need to get rid of as citizens!

Perhaps standing outside a courthouse and demanding a judges head just might help solve this problem??? It's up to the people of that community to organize and bring this kind of injustice to the media's attention!
Look at what just happened in Nevada!!!

I live in PA and we just had a judge indicted for being in bed with a private prison in which he sent children to prison for reasons that were just insane! He got paid for everyone of them he put in!!!!

It is time for people whom live in communities with judges that hand down these kind of unjust judgments to rise the hell up and stand outside the courthouse and DEMAND the judge be disbarred!

Being silent will never solve anything!

The justice system hasn't been about justice in 200 years in this country. It has always been about two things politicians imprisoning as many people they can so they can say "they are tough on crime" to win reelection/appointment. And whether or not you have enough money to keep them from doing it to you.

Indigo5

hounddoghowlie

drunk or not, thought they were joking or not, if they told him that he should have said no and not given them the keys.
he should have manned up admitted his part, and took the ten year plea deal offered to him.

edit on 14-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

SO...If they thought he was guilty of Felony Murder, why did they offer him a plea deal of 10 years?

if memory serves me correctly, the prosecutor whose name i believe was Rimmer said he didn't think Holle was not as culpable as the others. he was the only one of the five that was offered a deal. so they did take in consideration the fact he wasn't there.
i might see if i can find the stories from the Pensacola News Journal one of the local papers here. i'm pretty sure that he did say that's why he offered the deal

then you have to take the facts that, he admitted they told him what they had planned, and that by saying that he was drunk and thought the were joking as his way of saying he didn't know. or wasn't responsible.“

hell if he really was under the impression that he thought they were joking or really drunk. you would think the guy that actually smashed her head would have said so in court.
here are the words of that man.

“All he did was go say, ‘Use the car,’ ” Mr. Allen said of Mr. Holle in a pretrial deposition. “I mean, nobody really knew that girl was going to get killed. It was not in the plans to go kill somebody, you know.”

but being drunk is no excuse, or thinking some was joking is no excuse. strange he wasn't drunk enough to not remember what they told him before he gave them the keys. seems like he was pretty clear about what they said.

hounddoghowlie

Indigo5
reply to post by demongoat

 

“I honestly thought they were going to get food,” he said of the men who used his car, all of whom had attended the nightlong party at Mr. Holle’s house, as had Jessica Snyder.

“When they actually mentioned what was going on, I thought it was a joke,” Mr. Holle added, referring to the plan to steal the Snyders’ safe. “I thought they were just playing around. I was just very naïve. Plus from being drinking that night, I just didn’t understand what was going on.”

www.nytimes.com...

Aside from him being drunk and thinking it was a joke...

Where did they say they intended to murder someone?

He is serving a life sentence for Felony Murder.

here you go, they didn't say murder, but he did say they told him they might have to knock her out.

But Mr. Holle did testify that he had been told it might be necessary to “knock out” Jessica Snyder. Mr. Holle is 25 now, a tall, lean and lively man with a rueful sense of humor, alert brown eyes and an unusually deep voice. In a spare office at the prison here, he said that he had not taken the talk of a burglary seriously.
Serving Life for Providing Car to Killers

drunk or not, thought they were joking or not, if they told him that he should have said no and not given them the keys.
he should have manned up admitted his part, and took the ten year plea deal offered to him.

edit on 14-4-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

Here's the thing, for one he the guy was his ( ROOM MATE ) and He did admit lending his ROOM MATE His car Many times before now how many times did his roommate and buddys went for a Beer run or get grocery's (Munchies) for the Party & after the party ?

Well if he was Drunk and not so much clear headed and thought his ROOM MATE was Joking as Jessica Snyder Had Been there at this Party that was going on and the Weapon,, was found in the Snyder Home to killer now why was the Weapon unsecured ?


what is this?, does this mean that the girl that was Murdered was at this party ? earlier i assume

“I honestly thought they were going to get food,” he said of the men who used his car, all of whom had attended the nightlong party at Mr. Holle’s house, as had Jessica Snyder.

goes, to the Question, if Ryan Holle. knew Jessica Snyder ( the Murdered victim ) and she was at the Party they were having and everyone else knew her that was at this party

Could it be that Mr Holle thought at the time Yeah Right your going to rob her parents? to his Room mate and his friends ?
thinking it was a joke. as she was presently there earlier and if they actually did that their ass's would be in a sling if they knew each other or could be that it was All Planned ? as Jessica was in on it ! as hit me on the head and take my parents Stash but The Killer hit a little to hard ? Just a Guess.


Mind you im just going by this statement

“I honestly thought they were going to get food,” he said of the men who used his car, all of whom had attended the nightlong party at Mr. Holle’s house, as had Jessica Snyder.

AS HAD JESSICA SNYDER?

Ironically Her Mother Christine went to prison for 3 years possessing this stash after her daughters Funeral

So The One's that can save MR Holle's ASS is his Buddy's that put him there saying he wasn't all aware what happened.

So I guess Mr Holle got a Bum Deal refusing a 10 year plea and got life without Parole ! WTF ! after the loss of his trial

Mr. Holle was the only one of the five men charged with murdering Jessica Snyder who was offered a plea bargain, one that might have led to 10 years in prison.

I can see like a 20 years to life when he lost the trial

That is Harsh on Florida's Court System


How Lending A Friend Your Car, Then Going to Bed Can Land You a Life Prison Sentence
Florida man Ryan Holle is currently serving his 11th year of a life sentence, even with no prior criminal record.

www.alternet.org...

Serving Life for Providing Car to Killers
www.nytimes.com...

So the Moral of the Story is when your at a Party and hide your dam keys
and Say NO to Lend Your Car out to anyone when your Highly intoxicated
because it can land you in prison for life in the state of Florida.

reply to post by Wolfenz

I can see like a 20 years to life when he lost the
trial

And again. The crime he was charged with was a Capital Offense, with a mandatory life sentence or the death penalty.

Harsh you say? That's the sentence for first degree murder in Florida, especially when in connection with a home invasion. It matters not anything else, what matters is, he was offered a plea deal. He refused it. He got charged to the fullest extent of the law. Mandatory sentences are just that, you cannot pick a sentence you like, becuase you think it's too 'harsh'.

He was given the opportunity to have a less 'harsh' sentence, and he messed up. He thought, mistakenly, he could win the trial.

This is who's fault?

Looking at it, with the fact that it seems his friends told him they were gonna commit the robbery, he is guilty too under the law. He really, really should have taken the plea deal.

On the other hand, the mother who had the weed in the safe was also committing a crime (possession), so is she not responsible under that particular law also?

reply to post by InvisibleOwl


I cannot disagree with you about the mothers' responsibility. Had she not been partaking in her part of the crime, her daughter would still be here. But, the only person that can answer any questions about her would be the DA, the prosecutor.

As I understand, she was arrested and served 3 years after the daughters' funeral.

Libertygal
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

I can see like a 20 years to life when he lost the
trial

And again. The crime he was charged with was a Capital Offense, with a mandatory life sentence or the death penalty.

Harsh you say? That's the sentence for first degree murder in Florida, especially when in connection with a home invasion. It matters not anything else, what matters is, he was offered a plea deal. He refused it. He got charged to the fullest extent of the law. Mandatory sentences are just that, you cannot pick a sentence you like, becuase you think it's too 'harsh'.

He was given the opportunity to have a less 'harsh' sentence, and he messed up. He thought, mistakenly, he could win the trial.

This is who's fault?

U missed the Point .

a First Degree Murder that Holle was not involved with AT THE Scene of the Crime.
He was Drunk not at the best of the Clear minded was he ? when his Buddys to the Keys
Question did give the keys to his roommate or did the Roommate just took the keys and told holle that he was going to loot a drug dealer for some weed . Offered a Plea bargin Deal right, I think i mentioned that .

Hmm Whos Fault ? The Men that took advantage of him his so called buddies that did the crime

You Call That Justice ? from a plea of 10 years to his Death without Parole 60+ years

For letting him Use his car as he did many time before and for a Mistake of thinking he was joking, as the Woman Jessica Snyder was there previously that night at the party ?

what would of happen if this Trial was passed the North of the Mason Dixon line ?

The One that DId the Murder should of got the Death Penalty but instead he got Life without parole

Holle did NOT commit the murder had no knowledge of it, ( at the Time ) wasn't present at the Scene just his car while he was asleep, at home Drunk, it would of been a different story if he was the Getaway driver or Look out. which he wasnt
and he gets the Same Sentence of the man that did the Murder crime ?

So how much of a Accomplice was MR Holle ?

News: Ryan Holle Wrongly Prosecuted?
www.inweekly.net...

The article also points out that more than 30 states have such a felony murder rule for accomplices has been abolished in a few states, including Hawaii, Kentucky and Michigan, and other countries in the recent past.

About 16 percent of homicides in 2006 occurred during felonies, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Statistics concerning how many of those killings led to the murder prosecutions of accomplices are not available, but legal experts say such prosecutions are relatively common in the more than 30 states that allow them. About 80 people have been sentenced to death in the last three decades for participating in a felony that led to a murder though they did not kill anyone.

www.nytimes.com...

Interesting !

About 80 people have been sentenced to death in the last three decades for participating in a felony that led to a murder though they did not kill anyone

reply to post by Libertygal


Worthy points.

However, it still does not appear to me that the punishment comes close to fitting his "part in the crime."

And when the law is and/or is perceived to be beyond a huge gap in the realities on the ground, then, like it or not--the law ends up looking criminal itself.

In this case, it looks like the cure is worse than the disease.

The plea bargain aspect is an interesting factor . . . and, perhaps you are right about his arrogance.

However, even one's arrogance does not seem like a sufficient "criminal factor" to result in such a huge gap between the law and what seems remotely right to a large proportion of the populace.

In this case, the law appears to be carpicious, arbitrary, way overly harsh. And when the law appears to be that harsh to a huge majority of the populace, then the law is perceived to be criminal.

I wonder . . . how many Floridians--before this case--REALLY UNDERSTOOD--that such a bloke in this case could have the book thrown at him?

This law makes it look almost like smiling at a murderer politely when passing in a crosswalk as the murderer is on the way to commit a murder . . . being video'd in the crosswalk . . . could result in a harsh co-prison sentence. That PERCEPTION leaves most of the populace feeling unwittingly and unfairly at the mercy of harsh laws out of control.

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner


I couldn't agree with you more. I don't know much about this particular story (as I believe there is much being left out of the media's version) but I have to say Florida was the absolute worst place I have ever lived and I got a plane ticket out of there the minute I could. I was harassed by the local police and sheriff's dept. on a regular basis for NO REASON. The laws were ridiculous back then and are only worse now. (I go to visit family once a year and the old Walmart--the ENTIRE THING-- is now the new county sheriff's office for a county that needs MAYBE 20 officers.)
I was working as a clerk when I was 17 and was robbed at gun point at 10:30 p.m. in a small town. A customer at the counter had been hit in the head with a crowbar by 1 of the 2 men who robbed the store and was bleeding badly. My co-worker passed out cold and I waited 35 minutes for any police or paramedics to show up while I tried to stop the bleeding. After their arrival they questioned me for 45 minutes about the robbery and finally let me go home. A few days later I came in (no I didn't quit but should have!) and noticed that my name was not on the next week's schedule. Another co-worker told me the manager suspected I had
been in on it since it was 2 "coloreds" who robbed the store and I must have been in on it since I was "always so nice to the coloreds." They got away with a whopping 250.00. Most people don't think of Florida like that but it is, apart from the tourists and yes SOME decent people, the most backwards, racist, redneck, ignorant patch of land in the U.S. My apologies to any floridians but YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE!!!