How Lending A Friend Your Car, Then Going to Bed Can Land You a Life Prison Sentence

A life sentence is kinda harsh, but he said he knew what they were going to do; he loaned them the car they used in the crime, he's guilty of being an accessory.
At the most, maybe 10-15 years.
But OTOH, if he DIDNT KNOW, then I'd say no he's not guilty of anything, in this case he admitted knowledge.

There are a lot of stomach-turning headlines today, but this one really made me sick.

There are days you just shake your head and wonder how you landed on this planet.

This is indeed one of those days.

I give up.

Libertygal
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Because, he willingly admitted his guilt. When you admit guilt, it's amazing how the courts will work with you.

However, when you fight the courts with a frivolous claim, they throw the book at you.

You surely have seen this before, where someone is grossly 'overcharged'. This is done for the sheer fact of having the ability to make deals. It sucks, but that's how it is. They overcharge you, then go into the back room, and start talking deals.

"If your client pleads guilty to A, D, H, we will say, 10 in prison, 5 on parole."

The attorney goes to the client. Then, returns with an answer.

It may go like this:

"My client will plead guilty to A, D, and T, but for a sentence of 5, parole for 5."

They go back and forth like this, depending on the prosecutor, the crime, and if the Judge will even agree to the deal.

Yes, of course I understand this, but rather am pointing out the inherit corruption in a purported justice system where prosecutors are incentivized to charge folks with crimes they may not be guilty of in hopes of bargaining down to a sentence that reflects the crime they believe them to be guilty of.

Shouldn't they simply charge people with precisely what they are guilty of? And what they can prove indisputably in court?

This boy's attorneys gambled and lost. He ended up charged as if he had driven there himself and murdered someone.

And the if-not-for logic fails IMO...If not for him lending them the car, the crime would not have been committed? What omnipotent seer declares that as damnable truth? They would not have found another car to borrow at the party?

And hell..if being drunk is enough to invalidate a signed contract...shouldn't it be a considered factor when lending someone a car is a life sentence in court?

Yes...his friends said they were going to go and break into the house and steal the pot, but drunk people say dumb things all the time and he was drunk himself and on the way to bed and claims he thought they were kidding? Now you can think the worst of him and say he is lying and that he knew they were serious...but would you damn someone to life on prison from that "guess"?

I don't see this boy's actions as warranting a life sentence in prison.

reply to post by seeker1963


Wasnt that an episode of law an order?

reply to post by Libertygal


There are plenty of cases where going to trial is better. Especially in court marshal cases involving military personel. I dont agree with this felony murder charge. he didnt actually comit any crime, his dumbass buddies did. just because your daughter got killed because you were a dopehead and had got robbed doesnt mean you get to take everyone down. Maybe he really did think they were joking. If you didnt actually comit the crime you should not be charged.

reply to post by V22tech


Good point, how much responsibility are the parents suppose to take?

reply to post by onequestion


The parents should have had the book thrown at them for dealing dope while kids were in the house. 18 years old or not.

reply to post by seeker1963
seeker1963 did, at one time say:It isn't about JUSTICE anymore!

It is about OPPRESSION and CONDITIONING we just damn well better accept it!

Hell, look at the children in our school systems that are getting tossed out for eating a poptart in such a way it looks like a GUN!!! OOOOOHHHHH SCARY!!!

The CORPORATE/PRIVATE prison system would be the first thing we need to get rid of as citizens!

Perhaps standing outside a courthouse and demanding a judges head just might help solve this problem??? It's up to the people of that community to organize and bring this kind of injustice to the media's attention!
Look at what just happened in Nevada!!!

I live in PA and we just had a judge indicted for being in bed with a private prison in which he sent children to prison for reasons that were just insane! He got paid for everyone of them he put in!!!!

It is time for people whom live in communities with judges that hand down these kind of unjust judgments to rise the hell up and stand outside the courthouse and DEMAND the judge be disbarred!

Being silent will never solve anything!"

So I said:


While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I'm guessing the reason we do not challenge our oppressors is because most folks either:

* Don't have the TIME to do much about it. (and, We can thank TPTB for ensuring this...The controlling of one's ability to freely manage their own TIME is a big step in their general, and mental, enslavement. And, exactly what seems to be taking place, currently. Wake Up!)

OR

* They're scared of the possible repercussions of openly dissenting against those that are viewed as more powerful than themselves (FEAR is a hell of a powerful way to make others do your bidding, albeit, unwillingly...Unfortunately, pain or sometimes even the mere threat of such, works wonders in controlling others; enslaving the people...In fact, I would think it would be mandatory. Rise!)

OR

They just don't care (which, by far, at least IMHO, is the worst reason, but the eventual result of the many mind/life/spiritually controlling tricks that are played by the A-holes, perceptually, above us. Complacency and indifference are an inevitable, and often psychologically fatal, result).


I want to scream about the injustice. I want the changes that I think are vital for humanity to carry on a tolerable existence. I see the mindless being controlled, and the mindful seemingly helpless. They've got a HOLD on the way we believe. A stranglehold. It sucks, but really, now...what can ONE do?

reply to post by Indigo5

Yes...his friends said they were going to go and
break into the house and steal the pot,

Go ahead and finish the story.

"and that they may have to knock the girl in the head."

That's all you need. Stop. Right there.

Step 1. Home invasion in Florida is a Capital Offense.
2. Killing somone, even if unintended consequence, is a Capital Offense.

He knew of the crime afoot. He was charged not as an accessory, but as if he was there, because he aided and abetted and his direct actions resulted in the death of a person.

That is the crux of the matter. This isn't just a plain old felony. It is a Federal Offense. A whole other class of crime.

This was not heard in a State Court like a normal felony. This was heard in a Federal court. Do you not get the impact of the difference of a felony and a Capital Offense?

All the other drama and emotional pleas is just that.

If you know of a kidnapping, and fail to report it, and give the kidnapper the keys to kidnap, you will be charged with kidnapping.

He was charged with, exactly, the crimes he was accused of committing. Just as if he had been there.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

first degree murder, armed burglary,
armed robbery

If being drunk removed guilt of commission of a crime, half or more of the prisoners in prison would be set free. It has nothing to do with anything.

It's fine if you disagree with the law. However, it is the law, and a Federal Offense, at that. I disagree with a lot of laws, but I still do my best to not break them. Especially ones that carry death penalties, or life in prison.

In actuality, it was not under Florida law that he was prosecuted. It was under Federal Law, because of the home invasion, and Felony Murder Rule, so all the bleating about Florida's laws is crap, anyway.

He went down due to Federal Prosecution, which he could have totally avoided had he taken the plea deal offered by Florida. Refusing it, he landed square in Federal Jurisdiction, and hence, Federal sentencing.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

thought i would add this update.
rayn holle will remain in prison.

this from the local tv station.
Twelv e year old murder case heard in clemency board Wednesday

also from the Tampa Bay Times.
Man serving life for giving his car to killers will remain in prison for now (w/video)

in the times article here is something that i didn't know and if true i think that he got everything he deserved, especially seeing how he turned down a plea deal.

Snyder said Holle gave his accomplices bandannas to cover his Chevy's license tag and their faces during the crime.

another thing, i don't believe a thing his step dad said. if they didn't know what the law was holle's lawyer wasn't worth a sh@@. plus according to the State's Attorney General, the judge would have told them that.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

what screwed him was he ADMITTED KNOWLEDGE of what they planned to do. Had he said he didnt know, I think he would have had a better case, but that would be perjury.
I still think the sentence doesnt fit the crime, he should have gotten like 10-15 years.

ETA: Under this felony murder law, wouldnt the mother in this case be guilty as well? If the pot wasnt in the safe, would they have broken in?
"No weed, no crime" could fit in with "No car, no crime"

a reply to: HomerinNC

yea it was a bit much but that is the way the law reads and plus he should have taken the plea deal and he would have been a year ago if not before then.

the mother did go to jail for the weed, i think she got three years if i recall.

originally posted by: Baddogma
The U.S.'s Felony Murder Law is obviously unjust.

One other case that comes to mind is a group of teenagers in AZ, on bikes, who shoplifted a case of beer from a corner store. As they were pedaling away, the clerk ran out and grabbed the handlebars of one of the group.

The thieving kid had a gun that the rest of the group did not even know he had. They were doing a 'grab and run' for some beer and were planning on getting drunk in a dry stream bed nearby... nothing worse than that.

The kid panicked and killed the clerk. Horrible incident.

The kids were easily found (they may have turned themselves in... I'm fuzzy) and all were freaking out, crying like the kids they were, and all condemning the idiot who killed a man for no reason.

Following the letter of this unjust law they were ALL sentenced to life in prison... and they were also sentenced under the new laws that prosecute kids as adults... they were all under 18... one was 13 I think.

If my memory serves, one other kid who had just loaned his stupid bike to one of the group was also convicted.

Laws that take wise judgement from Judges and create situations like this are created from stupid knee-jerk reactions from politicians and the public. They are no good in any way.

It is embarrassing to live in such a country where common sense is not valued and blanket, automated sentences are handed out without regard to circumstances and intent.

It is not just in any way.

Well they are poor people whom in prison will make somebody rich to prison labor or simply by being in prison. "Cash for Kids" was just one of the dumber players and most outrages cases but there are more where that dumbo came from.