Europe Medical Care is Better than the US. Time to End the Myth.

reply to post by poet1b


And I've lived in Germany, France and he UK. They're bull#ting you. I was in afib in France. It would have taken 6 months to get treated for it with a lower success rate than the US. I came to the states, had the procedure the next week, SInce I was a cash pay they discounted the cost by almost 80%. In the UK the treatment recommended was pharmaceutical with a 25% of getting pulmonary fibrosis. I have also had heart issues that required either stents or another non-invasive procedure. I chose the non invasive procedure. In the UK there was one center that did it and it wasn't a sure thing that I could have had it at all. It the States I was able to start the series the next week after calling. The cost, less than the UK. There may be some things better in Europe but I haven't experienced them.

pacific_waters
reply to post by poet1b

 

And I've lived in Germany, France and he UK. They're bull#ting you. I was in afib in France. It would have taken 6 months to get treated for it with a lower success rate than the US. I came to the states, had the procedure the next week, SInce I was a cash pay they discounted the cost by almost 80%. In the UK the treatment recommended was pharmaceutical with a 25% of getting pulmonary fibrosis. I have also had heart issues that required either stents or another non-invasive procedure. I chose the non invasive procedure. In the UK there was one center that did it and it wasn't a sure thing that I could have had it at all. It the States I was able to start the series the next week after calling. The cost, less than the UK. There may be some things better in Europe but I haven't experienced them.

I don't know what afib means, but for any other citizen in France, the situation is not as you say.
My husband is a representative for stents, and he has been present when many of our friends had them put in. The procedure was done immediately, with no wait. I will get the success rate from him.
I have never had any wait for anything except a three day wait for a sonargram- and I have never had a wait that short in the US.

But I am waiting to hear what afib means- perhaps that will explain the strange experience you had?

neo96

European countries do have longer life expectancy rates, for certain. Even lower class people.

Because they have a different diet.

Diet does effect 'healthcare'.

Governments also effect healthcare.

Fiat currency also effect healthcare.

People can't compare healthcare systems of other countries.

Because no country is the same.

I don't buy that.
I did not change my diet or my way of life when i came to France.
That did not effect the experience I had when having children in France, versus the experience of having one in the US- which was ten times more efficient, more humane and better quality all around.
A doctor that comes to your home when you are sick, has nothing to do with fiat currency.
It means they are in that business because they have a passion for healing,
instead of a passion for money, which we americans are taught to worship .

I agree that cultural differences play a part,
but not to the extent that we cannot judge what kind of cultures are more beneficial for the health of the members and which are less.

reply to post by squittles


Compared to corporate insurance ran healthcare, Medicare is a great system. Medicare pays for most Americans healthcare at end of life, which is where most healthcare costs occur.

Being that we are already paying for elderly care through the government, the corporate insurance medical care industry skips out on the most expensive part of healthcare, and yet the CIMCI is still the most inefficient system on the planet.

Medicaid costs are mainly spent on illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants to the US have the best medical plan on the planet. While us citizens have to pay large amounts of money for childbirth, illegals have their half dozen kids for free.

Being that illegals come from third world nations, they probably arrive with lots of medical problems that US taxpayers get to pay.

Giant corps who control the markets have the most inefficient bureaucracies, far more inefficient even than government.

reply to post by pacific_waters


You flew to the US rather than wait? Are you Dick Cheney?

I know BS when I see it. These people I work with are engineers, who typically are very honest people. They are telling me their honest opinion.

Here in Australia we have a fairly decent healthcare system modelled on the British NHS I believe. The Tories in power (here in Oz) would do anything in their power to 'water down' the system and try to push as many people as possible into private health care. We pay a comparatively higher rate of tax down under than in the US, and I for one have no qualms paying my taxes to uphold a decent system.

I had pneumonia in 2010 and received absolutely first rate care which cost nothing - nothing that is except all the tax I've already paid into the system, and that is fine. There are some issues with the system but they've mostly come about because of the ongoing Tory war on anything paid for by the state (via the taxpayer).

reply to post by neo96


We don't live in a free market, we live in a corpratocracy, the absolutely worst form of economy or government ever. Devised by man, even worse than monarchy or communism.

Time to wake up to the reality.

reply to post by poet1b


That was already established not living in a free market since the US government is the largest healthcare provider in the country.

No evil corporation has that many or that power, and to repeat a free market also doesn't exist when the government REGULATES the entire healthcare system in this country.

And newsflash there:

Corporations don't dictate healthcare costs.

They just pay the GD bill.

neo96

Because they have a different diet.

Diet does effect 'healthcare'.

and in many cases, their diet is actually worse than ours. They still end up living longer.

You know what else effects life expectancy and health care? Smoking. Many of those countries have very high rates of smokers. They still outlive us. Can't put that down to diet.

You know what else efefcts health? Pollution levels. Much of Europe is far more polluted because of the higher population densities and limited natural resources. Yet they still outlive us.

Governments also effect healthcare.

Well, duh.

Fiat currency also effect healthcare.

Like the one we currently are using?

People can't compare healthcare systems of other countries.

Because no country is the same.

Life Expectancy Rates by Country
Maternal Mortality Rates by Country (Wow. We have the same maternal death rate as Iran. Yay, us!
Infant Mortality Rates by country
Country Tobacco Rates

All of the above lists are very good indicators combined of a country's state of health care for its citizens.

Yeah, you can compare healthcare systems amongst countries. Some are great, some suck. The NHS is great. The Spanish system sucked.

Our system, or lack of one, sucks. And funny enough, we spend more money per person on our healthcare, and more of our budget on healthcare, even though we don't have universal coverage. Because of profit driven nature of healthcare in this country.

neo96
reply to post by poet1b

 

That was already established not living in a free market since the US government is the largest healthcare provider in the country.

No evil corporation has that many or that power, and to repeat a free market also doesn't exist when the government REGULATES the entire healthcare system in this country.

And newsflash there:

Corporations don't dictate healthcare costs.

They just pay the GD bill.

Ehhh....BS. Pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, doctors, practices get to sell their product at just about any cost they damned well please. It is a completely unregulated market.

It's the rest of us that pay the damned bills, not those poor corporations.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


What ?

BS?

We are witnessing a battle in Washington right now about the future of health care’s two big public programs, Medicare and Medicaid. It’s a budget battle, it’s an ideological battle, it’s a partisan political battle, and while it might not always be obvious following the debate, it’s a high stakes battle for people. In 2011, over a hundred million low-income, disabled, and elderly beneficiaries will be served by the two programs

kff.org...

Ehhh....BS. Pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, doctors, practices get to sell their product at just about any cost they damned well please. It is a completely unregulated market.

Anyone saying the healthcare system in this country is not regulated is pushing BS.

Because IT IS.

reply to post by neo96


If healthcare in this country was regulated, drug companies wouldn't be charging ridiculous sums for prescription drugs, hospitals would not be allowed to charge interest on medical bills, nor would they be charging 50 bucks for a box of kleenex.

Healthcare in this country is regulated only by the whims of big business, such as drug and insurance companies.

My mother had no insurance, yet she was extremely sick with lung disease. The state covered some expenses. However, there was no way she could pay for the treatments needed, and our glorious doctors certainly weren't interested in treating someone who can't pay. They instead said "screw you" and decided to put her on hospice. Hospice is supposed to be for people who are going to die soon. She lived for another 4 years on very minimal, half assed care, and died at the age of 53. And two days after her death, while I was sorting through her belongings, I got calls from all the medical bill collectors more concerned if she had any money in her estate to pay for her scant treatment than they were for the fact she was dead.

Had she been in the U.K. with me, she would have gotten the necessary treatments, and it would have cost her nothing. Her treatment would not have depended upon whether or not she had enough money or coverage. It would have depended on what she needed. My ex-husband's brother was diagnosed with stomach cancer. Within two weeks, he was at the NHS hospital receiving radiation treatment. He recovered and lives well to this day. It cost him nothing.

I hear all this squawking about "death panels". We already have death panels in this country. It's called, if you ain't got money or good insurance, you're SOL. Beyond the very basics to stabilize you, you won't get treatment.

So don't tell me there's so much government regulation in our healthcare system. The only people making the regs are those running the businesses.

reply to post by neo96


You are a true corporatist, who believes that corporations can do no wrong. The ICBs and the Insurance companies own most of the planet thanks to free market policies that actually eliminate market systems and replace them with corporatocrisy. They have more power than anyone, and currently control the US government, and many others as well.

They want control of our health care system just like they want control of our water, and everything else.

reply to post by poet1b

You are a true corporatist,

Aww was that suppose to be an 'insult' ?

who believes that corporations can do no wrong

Better than think government can do no wrong. With their epic failures of running STATE RAN healthcare in the US vis a vis Medicare, and Medicaid.

The ICBs and the Insurance companies own most of the planet thanks to free market policies that actually eliminate market systems and replace them with corporatocrisy.

The only 'eliminating' I see is the providers of the best healthcare in this country.

And that is private insurance that runs circles around medicare, and medicaid.


Have anything other than talking points take straight out of the communist manifesto ?

reply to post by poet1b


I worked in an international airport within the US and I never once heard any foreigner state that medical care was better outside of the US. What I did hear a lot about was that in European countries when children are injured playing sports they get to be crippled for life becuase the basic joint repairing surgeries offered here are not offered elsewhere becuase it's not life threatening. The majority of people who mentioned this sort of thing were well off retired people coming here for surgery to repair their knees and hips becuase they could not get that type of medical care in their own countries and they would plead with us to do what ever we could to stop obamacare. Nearly all advancements in medical care in the last 50 years has come from the US there is no way our system is less beneficial than anywhere else. It doesn't always get paid for here but it is not denied to anyone, obama care will reverse that. It will be always paid for but basic and essential care will be denied to everyone.

That's because Europe has Free Universal Healthcare that is paid for by everyone through taxes.
That's how civilized nations operate and care for their sick.
Also if you get a FREE European Healthcare Card, and travel anywhere in the European Union then your treatment is free too.
So whatever country you live in, you're covered right across the EU

neilarm]
reply to post by poet1b

 

Nearly all advancements in medical care in the last 50 years has come from the US

What utter nonsense.
The arrogance of Americans never ceases to amaze.

Read the list

justlists.wordpress.com...

Americans think they invented everything.
Car - no
TV - no
Internet - no

I could go on and on

edit on 24-2-2014 by stargatetravels because: (no reason given)