Massive Water Shift to Support Las Vegas??

This just came to my attention but apparently, it's been a plan in one form or another since 1989. The basic outline here is to build the largest and most ambitious project for moving ground water in American history. Only the surface water movement that drained Mono Lake in support of Los Angeles was bigger, according to the article and case. It's really amazing and disturbing, what they have planned here.

Regional water consortia, environmentalists, Native American tribes, the League of Woman Voters and others filed two federal lawsuits challenging a proposed 263-mile pipeline to deliver groundwater from rural eastern Nevada to Las Vegas: "the biggest groundwater pumping project ever built in the United States."

The two federal complaints, weighing in at a combined 107 pages, say the groundwater pumping and transfer will threaten protected species and permanently damage the ecosystem. In fact, it will authorize pumping more groundwater than the target area contains.

It's quite a complaint for quite a project. There is also QUITE a list of people that have serious problems with it, to say the very least.

The accompanying 75-page lawsuit makes similar complaints against the defendants. The dozen plaintiffs in this case carry considerable political weight. They are White Pine County, Nevada; the Great Basin Water Network; the Sierra Club; the Central Nevada Regional Water Authority; the Confederated Tribes Of The Goshute Reservation; the Ely Shoshone Tribe; the Duckwater Shoshone Tribe; the Baker, Nevada Water And Sewer General Improvement District; Utah Physicians For A Healthy Environment; the Utah Rivers Council; Utah Audubon Council; and the League Of Women Voters Of Salt Lake, Utah.

I don't think they missed many in that group and that is a virtual who is who of major environmental groups in that region of the country, as well as some not so commonly associated with straight environmental causes. The description of damage this is expected to do is staggering though and well justifies the diverse group of interests lined up against it.

In its lawsuit, the Center for Biological Diversity claims the project will cause indirect harm to 130,000 acres of wildlife habitat, including meadows and wetlands; could cause several hundred springs to dry up; and might kill off several threatened species, including as the endangered sage grouse.

White Pine County, on the border with Utah and Arizona, has a total area of 8,897 square miles, of which only 21 square miles (0.18 percent) are water. The rest of the county is dominated by pine forests, several designated wilderness areas, and the Great Basin National Park.

Source: Courthouse News

In addition to the above, the project will take 38 years, cost over 15 billion and suck those areas dry at a rate of over 175,000 acre feet of water a year. I wouldn't count on those forests and national park remaining healthy for long with that outflow of ground water in a desert climate, in terms of replenishment issues. Not all of Nevada is the desert which one imagines from media images. most of it is, but not all of it. I saw some beautiful country on the truck, and some of it was in Nevada. It'd be a shame to see such changes forced on rural Nevada to support Sin City. It's a novel place if it's not killing the area around it to exist.

Perhaps it's time to start looking at limits ..and I mean REAL LIMITS to how many people can live in areas which don't naturally support numbers people insist they must move there in. It's not that we have a shortage of space in the US, it's that everyone must pile atop each other like sardines in a can, and often, in the least viable areas for resources to support it.

Personally...I don't think it's right that Las Vegas be permitted to suck dry the state around it, and some of the water beneath surrounding states as well. All for..one city? A city whose largest industry is gambling, for goodness sake?? We shouldn't be in the business of telling people where they can or can't live ..... unless they're insisting on living where simply BEING there demands damage be done elsewhere, to support it.

What say the folks of ATS?

Among other things, the Bureau noted that Measure F will destroy around 10,681 acres of shrub and forest lands; reduce desert tortoise and sage grouse habitat by more than 2,000 acres; require construction of more than 4,000 acres of power lines, well pads and access roads; displace big game populations; and reduce the depth and water flow of rivers, springs and lakes in the project area.

All this to quench the thirst of humans? We truly are bleeding our planet dry.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


las vegas was ill-conceived from the start - and has been permitted to expand unchecked - the ` writing was on the wall ` in the 80s - but no one took any notice - now it is utterly unsustainable .

unless reined in - by the time that this project is complete - las vegas water needs will outstrip it

That was a big issue back when I lived in Vegas in '08-'09.
Being from Michigan, we hear lots of stories of states wanting to grab water from our great lakes and I am way against it.

So in Vegas I was against that plan also. I still am against it but understand the "logic" behind the proponents arguments. There was a news special and it showed some nice fertile lands. It showcased the ranchers that have lived there for generations.

The argument for the water grab is that the water supports very few families, several hundred people while Las Vegas generates millions of tax dollars for the state and supports hundreds of thousands ( I don't recall the exact amount) of people living there.

The crazy thing is, I was building one of the casinos there, they have water trucks that spray water onto the ground all day, everyday. Too keep dust down. Probably an insignificant amount of water in the big picture but still...

We visited Vegas last year and the main thing that struck me about the place was the pure excess and waste, it made me quite sad.

Needless to say it was not my cup of tea and I would not be in support of this plan. I wonder how much of this water is earmarked for those outdoor air con systems that spray tourists to keep them at an ameanable temperature, the copious pools and water features and the vat sized hotel baths?

I read somewhere that we just had the wetest 50 years of a 500 year drought cycle
betcha the anastazi were the last bunch of peeps to try an ambitious project in the
(encroaching) desert

One thing I had wondered a while ago, when reading of water shortages in CA, is just how much water is being used by the Fracking industry in the state, and where they are taking it from?
From what I have read, the process uses a lot of water, so in a place where the water reserves are finite and likely needed for other more useful purposes - drinking, farming etc, you'd hope that these would be a priority. Maybe it's not a concern, but probably worth a look if anyone feels inclined.

With that sort of expenditure they could build de-salination plants on the coast and pump the water to where they need it. This way they do not destroy mother nature. Why can't these people use their brains. That is a lot of money they are using.

If they go ahead with this plan, how long will the ground water last. A decade or two. Then they are back to square one and have to build the de-sal plants anyway.

P

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Just wait til we start having skirmishes between states over water....states building dams or blocking of parts of water to keep for their own....Ive always felt fresh water was a huge topic of interest and will be the next "oil". Sure we can desalinate water but there is no infrastructure for it yet and it will cost quite a bit...Once the raise the water costs you will see every citizen start collecting their own water. I think this of all the doom porn on here is the biggest issue...fresh water.

reply to post by cosmicexplorer


there actually were issues over the states about water,when the states were formed.Theres a show called "how the states got they're shapes",really interesting.Some were for forest,water right's,shipping lanes.You would think they would have all been square,or border a river,but congress got into it and we got what we have now

reply to post by blkcwbyhat


Interesting..I remember the advertisements for that show but I have never seen..I should load that up...bet I learn more about politics than geography for sure haha

This is for Las Vegas? What kind of nuts do we have in charge of our country that even consider letting this happen. Entertainment causes collapse of ecosystem in areas. I think they should consider moving Las Vegas to another area where they can recycle their water. How about Lower Michigan?

reply to post by rickymouse


Hey why lower Mich? Northern Mi has much more unused space....lol

tinner07
reply to post by rickymouse

 

Hey why lower Mich? Northern Mi has much more unused space....lol

We got the Indians with their casinos here sucking the money out of us already. At least with the Indians, you have a better chance of winning some time. They also support local programs around here. We need tourists but we also love nature around here. I would rather have tourists come up here and camp in the rustic areas, they can learn to connect with nature...as long as they take care of their fires so we don't lose this beautiful area.

reply to post by Danbones


Yes, people do seem to confuse weather with climate and plan exactly opposite how they should be. Take this winter for example. I can excuse Atlanta for not being prepared for anything. 'Anything' is a very very rare event down there. However, we've had nonsense reactions to these "named storms" of winter like the world is ending and we used to just call this "Winter" when I was growing up. Back when seasons were taken as something we expected, not called a crisis over actually seeing happen. lol...

In this case, the weather may be favorable for studies and that's short term thinking. Long term puts that in the middle of an exceptionally dry desert region where some areas have found an almost magic balance to have the evergreens and other diverse plant life in a place it really shouldn't even be able to make it. This will certainly blow that careful balance all to hell, and likely forever.

All so gamblers can have their water features on the Strip and no hotel room goes without water on demand to unlimited quantity ..times how many 10's of thousands of rooms? Yup... Definitely worth it to me. Ugh..

Ahh yes
lets continue to Use up the Most valuable resource (Drinkable Water)
to support a city created of lust and gambling... perfect

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


I would want to note, Vegas located in an area where resources could support the city (like across a good % of the rest of the nation, that isn't old chronic desert land, perhaps?) wouldn't bother me. It's not the Sin in Sin City that offends as much as being willing to actually force it where it cannot be supported without massive outside drawing down of resources.

I mean..really?? The Colorado and Lake Meade isn't enough to be drawing out of for ONE city? Whole states have significant dependence on the same river ..and I'm sure Mexico once did, but of course, Colorado Creek isn't much to holler about these days, at that point on the map.

Yikes...Some areas really are finite for water and don't have anything like replenishment at the rate of use (Some areas aren't half bad on that, too...but Nevada sure isn't one of those..lol)

I hate starting to sound like a greenie myself...but there do happen to be a couple real and real BIG problems ATM out there...with water topping the list in bold capital letters.

reply to post by UnbiasedTruth


The way things are going nowadays, I reckon Mankind has possibly lived on all visible planets and one by converted such into a desert like chaos. They are not craters, they are Manmade sinkholes that time gradually filled with solar dust. Daft thought's????, I would have said yes and laughed till I read what is really happening on Earth these days.

The worst of this is that the locusts have about used up the west and when they're done sucking it dry and ruining it, they'll come spilling out into flyover to ruin what we still have, too. Of course, that assumes they don't figure out how to suck us dry from where they're at ...

The insane thing is that they don't appear to connect how the food gets into their nice sanitized grocery stores from those few people who live in the rural areas whose taxes just don't count.

reply to post by ketsuko


The problem there is something any long haul trucker can tell you. A good portion of your in-season produce for domestic production comes from California....or did, anyway. Maybe they've lost a good part of Salinas too, by now. El Centro and Brawley sure weren't looking happy regarding unemployment in the high double digits so it's not what it used to be there, anyway.

(A WHOLE lot higher % of your cheese products come from California, too....but I'll leave that there before I go offending cheese people with how sausage gets made. lol)

* Just a thought to add here... I hauled a lot of hay out of Eastern Nevada as well as Onions and Cantaloupes out of other areas of the state. Hmm... I wonder how all that gets impacted as Vegas reaches out to touch other people's water....